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| Could all the four talls play? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27253 |
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| Author: | brazilbeliever [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Could all the four talls play? |
Read on another topic about Knockers and Sause alternating in the ruck, Hammer to Full forward (needs to improve his marking) and Krooze (with his huge tank, agility and footybrain) on the wing. Was just an off the wall comment but it got me thinking and have been thinking about it for a few days. Although my footybrain is relatively small compared to a number of posters here would be interested on people's thoughts. For what its worth I think if they were all fit and firing it would be flowering awesome! The fact that Krooze is so big but plays small (except when he takes those huge marks!) could really pay off on the wing. Would keep him in the middle and utilise all his attributes as well as allowing him to take rucking duties in certain plays, confusing the flower out of the opposition. I know the arguement would be that we are too tall ... and obviously if its pouring down its ridiculous, but good weather, open ground I am convinced we have something no other AFL team has .... why not discuss if its possible to turn the four tall timbers into the sort of force that others envy and everyone on TC drolls about? |
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| Author: | bondiblue [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
Back in 1970, Collingwood had introduced a weapon which was the 6 foot wingman. Traditionally, the wing was seen as the domain for the small fleet footed player. Well when you have a taller wingman who can also run well then you have a marking advantage and as a result a dependable link man across the cntre. Hammer and Kreuzer can definetely run like midfielders, but because of their size may not be able to yurn as quick as a midget. Nevertheless, they can run and mark, and at 200cm they too provide a mismatch in the midfield like the Collingwood 6 footer did a few decades ago. Never say never. |
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| Author: | JohnM [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
I guess the reality is that there'd be maybe 3 or 4 games a year where the matchups would let you do that... and probably a 20% chance that all four guys would be available for selection at the same time. I reckon you have to factor in about 20% of your list being injured or out of form at any one time. So I guess it's unlikely to happen to be honest. But depth is a good thing to have, isn't it? |
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| Author: | brazilbeliever [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
Yeah I know that talls are more prone to injuries than most and that we have excellent depth now in that department (how many years has it been?) but for the sake of arguement I am assuming an injury free run for the talls and given that would playing all of them give us a decent advantage worth looking at. |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
Never wanting to give Collingwood a sniff of a go, I'd argue the Tigers of the 60's already had their own 6' wingman, all Collingwood did, as they always do (including their shit jumper), is copy. The only thing they invented was the almighty wobble, and even then it was more good fortune than intelligent design. |
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| Author: | Dirko [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
4 is a big ask, 3 would be just about ideal. Looking at the Crows  they play Tippett up forward then rotate Seller / Moran / McKernan or Maric pending on form through the ruck.Works well for them. I'd love to see Hammer or Kruezer play a Tippett sort of role. Sauce to ruck with who ever doesn't play forward. Warnock the back up at this stage. |
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| Author: | jimmae [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
I don't think there's a permanent spot in the forward line for them to rotate through, so 2 would be the optimal number in my book. If we had a couple of key talls go down, then I'd revise that. |
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| Author: | Teddy Hopkins [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
None of the talls are a proven forward yet. Need to see who has the actual ability to kick goals consistently, otherwise this is all just talk. The NAB cup should be interesting assuming Ratts is going to experiment. If Hammer can actually hold his marks rather than have the ball bounce out of his mitts I reckon he will be dynamic. If nothing else, getting his hands on the ball means it will come down to the small forwards who will have to earn their pay finally. |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
But when you talk about Hammer and maybe Kruez fwd, you need to factor in the likes of Setanta and Henderson and Waite too I can't see all 4 rucks in the 22 at the same time |
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| Author: | coryne [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
To discuss a line up wth all 4 talls you really need to see what it would look like with them all included, so here is my line up with all 4 talls included Joseph ........ Jamison........... Armfield Thornton ...... Bower ............ Russel Kreuzer ........ Mclean .......... Simpson Gibbs ........... Waite ........... Betts Yarran ........ Henderson ...... Hampson Warnock ....... Judd ............. Murphy Jacobs, Walker, Hadley, Carazzo. I actually think that looks pretty good ............ Kreuzer through the midfield wouldn't be too bad considering he has great ability once the ball hits the ground, is a running machine and solid disposal by hand and foot. Would be a good link up man out of defence with his marking. I would love to see the back 6 played for the whole season (baring injuries). Obviously Joseph has more of a tagging role than a defensive role, but I like Jamison and Bower in the KPD positions and Thornton as the 3rd man up/sweeper. Russel has earnt his position in the backline now and Armfield would be ahead of Browne as the small defender IMO. The midfield, outside of Kreuzer, is pretty self explanatory, with Simpson on the second wing, Mclean dishing the ball out, Warnock at 1st ruck and Judd and Murphy doing what they do best. I would like to see Gibbs play off a HFF and pushing into the midfield. He has great skill bringing the ball out of defense, but would love to see him closer to goal where he would be more damaging IMO. Betts and Yarran are the 2 small crumbers, with Waite playing CHF (body permitting) and Henderson playing FF. Henderson as a 3rd tall would be a nightmare match up for the oppositions defense if he can stick his catchs, or at least create a contest for the crumbers to work off. I think there is A LOT of fexability with the starting line up, so have gone for more midfield rotations off the bench. I would play AT LEAST one of Mclean and Hadley on the ground at any one time to have a fresh extractor out there to feed the classy midfielders. Walker could play anywhere from a HBF-midfield-HFF role, so is a good swing man through there, and Carazzo can play through the midfield or as a defensive forward (don't want him in the backline ever again pls Ratts !!!!!!). If I was to change a player in it would be Lucas/Robinson for Carazzo, but that would be more from a developmental side than earning a spot ahead of Carazzo If we are getting beaten in an area then we would have the men to cover it. Need to go bigger in defense ??? Chuck Waite back there, send Walker onto the wing and Kreuzer up forward. Need more height in the forward line ??? Swap Kreuzer and Gibbs over. It would be an interesting line up. That said I doubt we would go more than x3 of them at any one time, with Jacobs out (if all 4 are available) and a defender on the bench. |
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| Author: | bondiblue [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
I like it coryne. Why not also imagine Hammer at CHB? Yeah really. We have a plethora of very good athletic talls. I can clearly see that. |
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| Author: | murraycray [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
dannyboy wrote: Never wanting to give Collingwood a sniff of a go, I'd argue the Tigers of the 60's already had their own 6' wingman, all Collingwood did, as they always do (including their shit jumper), is copy. The only thing they invented was the almighty wobble, and even then it was more good fortune than intelligent design. Centreline. Bourke Barrot Clay. 
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
We have 6 talls that could be all competing for spots Warnock Kruez Hammer Jacobs Hendo O'halpin and then theres the two pot screamer Levi who is also tall |
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| Author: | Kruscendo [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
coryne wrote: To discuss a line up wth all 4 talls you really need to see what it would look like with them all included, so here is my line up with all 4 talls included Joseph ........ Jamison........... Armfield Thornton ...... Bower ............ Russel Kreuzer ........ Mclean .......... Simpson Gibbs ........... Waite ........... Betts Yarran ........ Henderson ...... Hampson Warnock ....... Judd ............. Murphy Jacobs, Walker, Hadley, Carazzo. . You're right coryne, does look pretty good. It could also still work if you removed one of the rucks( IE took Jacobs off the bench). You'd have the second ruckman resting in pocket like you have it, or onto the bech if really dead, and Kreuz on the wing. We then have one extra midfielder, utility or tall (190-196ish, depending on matchups) we could put onto the bench spot instead Jacobs (4th ruck). That could be either: Midfielders: Lucas (eventually), Grigg or Robinson Tallish: Setanta, Austin, Donaldson (shhh, I have a feeling), Tiller Utilities: Browne, Houlihan, Scotland, O'Keeffe, Anderson Whatever the starting line up though, it is good to see we have some real competition for spots (IE that list of 12 players that I think are all AFL potential quality, are all vying for 1 spot.....)! |
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| Author: | TruBlueBrad [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Could all the four talls play? |
Its a stretch to play 3 of them to be honest. Add Setanta to the mix and you wouldn't want more than 3 out of that mix. 8 talls is probably the most you should have 3 tall defenders 3 tall forwards 2 ruckmen For every tall you have in the side, you take one midfielder out of the rotation and you can't count Kreuzer or Hampson as midfielders. |
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