I hear the fish rots from the head.
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| Leadership crises at Carlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27072 |
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| Author: | anthopides [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Leadership crises at Carlton |
Carlton's President and coach are too familar with the playing group Greg Swan a thorough professional must be tearing his hair out at Carlton's lack of leadership. It's no coincidence that the current situaton has ocurred after allowing the culture to continue and finally sacking Fevola only after heaps of Media pressure. It is useless blaming and belatedly punishing the playing group it is clear that Kernhan and Ratten have allowed the"Carlton way' to continue . Discipline is imposed from the top these two have an appalling record and are totally responsible for the current state of affairs. Anthopides |
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| Author: | baz_baz [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership cirsis at Carlton |
anthopides wrote: Carlton's President and coach are too familar with the playing group Greg Swan a thorough professional must be tearing his hair out at Carlton's lack of leadership. It's no coincidence that the current situaton has ocurred after allowing the culture to continue and finally sacking Fevola only after heaps of Media pressure. It is useless blaming and belatedly punishing the playing group it is clear that Kernhan and Ratten have allowed the"Carlton way' to continue . Discipline is imposed from the top these two have an appalling record and are totally responsible for the current state of affairs. Anthopides The successful clubs have leadership oozing out of the playing group. Point in case, Geelong, Carlton in 95, Hawthorn, the list goes on and on. The club in my opinion, is adressing this shortfall. They have employed a company to come in and start to work on the deficiency. Yoiu dont move forward if you are always looking in the rear view mirror. |
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| Author: | Navy Blue Horse [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership cirsis at Carlton |
I hear the fish rots from the head.
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| Author: | Kouta [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership cirsis at Carlton |
I read the topic as cirrhosis.   
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| Author: | anthopides [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership cirsis at Carlton |
baz_baz wrote: anthopides wrote: Carlton's President and coach are too familar with the playing group Greg Swan a thorough professional must be tearing his hair out at Carlton's lack of leadership. It's no coincidence that the current situaton has ocurred after allowing the culture to continue and finally sacking Fevola only after heaps of Media pressure. It is useless blaming and belatedly punishing the playing group it is clear that Kernhan and Ratten have allowed the"Carlton way' to continue . Discipline is imposed from the top these two have an appalling record and are totally responsible for the current state of affairs. Anthopides The successful clubs have leadership oozing out of the playing group. Point in case, Geelong, Carlton in 95, Hawthorn, the list goes on and on. The club in my opinion, is adressing this shortfall. They have employed a company to come in and start to work on the deficiency. Yoiu dont move forward if you are always looking in the rear view mirror. All those teams had srong professional coaches Ratten has no presence.If Carlton are to be successful we need a Leigh Mathews type Anthopides |
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| Author: | club29 [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership cirsis at Carlton |
anthopides wrote: baz_baz wrote: anthopides wrote: Carlton's President and coach are too familar with the playing group Greg Swan a thorough professional must be tearing his hair out at Carlton's lack of leadership. It's no coincidence that the current situaton has ocurred after allowing the culture to continue and finally sacking Fevola only after heaps of Media pressure. It is useless blaming and belatedly punishing the playing group it is clear that Kernhan and Ratten have allowed the"Carlton way' to continue . Discipline is imposed from the top these two have an appalling record and are totally responsible for the current state of affairs. Anthopides The successful clubs have leadership oozing out of the playing group. Point in case, Geelong, Carlton in 95, Hawthorn, the list goes on and on. The club in my opinion, is adressing this shortfall. They have employed a company to come in and start to work on the deficiency. Yoiu dont move forward if you are always looking in the rear view mirror. All those teams had srong professional coaches Ratten has no presence.If Carlton are to be successful we need a Leigh Mathews type Anthopides Hawthorn have been involved in heaps of off field drinking issues and not to mention other stuff. Id take them off your list as they are disproving your theory. The problem is with the whole playing group of the AFL. The head honcho of the league should step aside. The fish rots at the head. |
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| Author: | baz_baz [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership cirsis at Carlton |
Quote: Quote: Quote: The successful clubs have leadership oozing out of the playing group. Point in case, Geelong, Carlton in 95, Hawthorn, the list goes on and on. The club in my opinion, is adressing this shortfall. They have employed a company to come in and start to work on the deficiency. Yoiu dont move forward if you are always looking in the rear view mirror. All those teams had srong professional coaches Ratten has no presence.If Carlton are to be successful we need a Leigh Mathews type Anthopides Hawthorn have been involved in heaps of off field drinking issues and not to mention other stuff. Id take them off your list as they are disproving your theory. The problem is with the whole playing group of the AFL. The head honcho of the league should step aside. The fish rots at the head. Nah Im not taking them off. They won a flag |
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| Author: | dane [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
Surely this doesn't need its own thread... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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| Author: | jim [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
Doesn't deserve a thread full stop. Lot's of carrying about a drunken xmas p1ss up. |
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| Author: | bax [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
jim wrote: Doesn't deserve a thread full stop. Lot's of carrying about a drunken xmas p1ss up. I agree. I think any new threads re the Booze Cruise should be in the " Talking Training " forum I think any proposed rally's should be held at the Breweries, after all they are responsible for all this. 
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| Author: | Taff [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
jim wrote: Doesn't deserve a thread full stop. Lot's of carrying about a drunken xmas p1ss up. If only it was that simple. |
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| Author: | VisyBlue [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
Back in 1995, David Parkin revolutionized football by empowering a number of senior players to take strong leadership roles and chart their own destiny to a certain degree. It was VERY unParkin like, but he saw it as a way of getting the very best out of the players. Experience heads such as Kernahan, Bradley, Williams and Silvagni (all with around ten years experience) took control of the playing group as the leadership team and guided the likes of Christou, Kouta, Campo etc etc, setting the standards by which others would follow. Flash forward to 2009, where our two oldest players are Scotland and Houlihan (God help us!!), the captain is 26 and his deputies are 20, 22 etc. etc. LESSON: DON'T CREATE A LEADERSHIP GROUP IF YOU HAVE NO LEADERS!!!! We have POTENTIAL leaders, but not a group of actual leaders. Teams that are rebuilding should not have a 'leadership group' until they are ready for one. Two case in points. i. Melbourne should NOT have a leadership group made up of players: their group is too young. ii. Thomas ruled St Kilda with an iron fist, rotated the leadership position, so that now the likes of Riewoldt, Kosie, Hayes, Fisher and De Santo are ready to form an effective, efficient, respected Leadership Group. Our leadership group should be Judd, Ratten, Swan, Icke and possibly Harvey. Leave our players to learn the game AND the art of leadership so that when we get to 2012 / 13 and we are making a genuine play for the silverware, we have genuine onfield leadership at the club. |
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| Author: | blueman [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
Things are indeed rarely that simple. In Carlton's case - the issues that are dogging the club now will continue to exert a negative influence for most of 2010. But the changes that will take Carlton forward will start to have a noticeable effect in the last third of the home and away season. |
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| Author: | The Normal One [ Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
jim wrote: Lot's of carrying about a drunken xmas p1ss up. Exactly. What is Andrew Demetriou on about requesting a "please explain"? Why has Sticks called an All Hands meeting on the 4th of January? For a simple xmas p1ss up, it's a bit over the top isn't it!! 
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| Author: | klakker [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
There's plenty of threads covering all this cr@p . Why the hell do we need another one ????? |
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| Author: | budzy [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
Sticks and a few of 'his boys' should lead the way ...out the door... |
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| Author: | anthopides [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
VisyBlue wrote: Back in 1995, David Parkin revolutionized football by empowering a number of senior players to take strong leadership roles and chart their own destiny to a certain degree. It was VERY unParkin like, but he saw it as a way of getting the very best out of the players. Experience heads such as Kernahan, Bradley, Williams and Silvagni (all with around ten years experience) took control of the playing group as the leadership team and guided the likes of Christou, Kouta, Campo etc etc, setting the standards by which others would follow. Flash forward to 2009, where our two oldest players are Scotland and Houlihan (God help us!!), the captain is 26 and his deputies are 20, 22 etc. etc. LESSON: DON'T CREATE A LEADERSHIP GROUP IF YOU HAVE NO LEADERS!!!! We have POTENTIAL leaders, but not a group of actual leaders. Teams that are rebuilding should not have a 'leadership group' until they are ready for one. Two case in points. i. Melbourne should NOT have a leadership group made up of players: their group is too young. ii. Thomas ruled St Kilda with an iron fist, rotated the leadership position, so that now the likes of Riewoldt, Kosie, Hayes, Fisher and De Santo are ready to form an effective, efficient, respected Leadership Group. Our leadership group should be Judd, Ratten, Swan, Icke and possibly Harvey. Leave our players to learn the game AND the art of leadership so that when we get to 2012 / 13 and we are making a genuine play for the silverware, we have genuine onfield leadership at the club. We must deal with the lack of control Ratten exerts on this group.Carlton will never be successfull while he remains coach. ANTHOPEDIDES |
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| Author: | anthopides [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
budzy wrote: Sticks and a few of 'his boys' should lead the way ...out the door... Swan must be vert frustrated with sticks lack of leadership Anthopides |
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| Author: | anthopides [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
VisyBlue wrote: Back in 1995, David Parkin revolutionized football by empowering a number of senior players to take strong leadership roles and chart their own destiny to a certain degree. It was VERY unParkin like, but he saw it as a way of getting the very best out of the players. Experience heads such as Kernahan, Bradley, Williams and Silvagni (all with around ten years experience) took control of the playing group as the leadership team and guided the likes of Christou, Kouta, Campo etc etc, setting the standards by which others would follow. Flash forward to 2009, where our two oldest players are Scotland and Houlihan (God help us!!), the captain is 26 and his deputies are 20, 22 etc. etc. LESSON: DON'T CREATE A LEADERSHIP GROUP IF YOU HAVE NO LEADERS!!!! We have POTENTIAL leaders, but not a group of actual leaders. Teams that are rebuilding should not have a 'leadership group' until they are ready for one. Two case in points. i. Melbourne should NOT have a leadership group made up of players: their group is too young. ii. Thomas ruled St Kilda with an iron fist, rotated the leadership position, so that now the likes of Riewoldt, Kosie, Hayes, Fisher and De Santo are ready to form an effective, efficient, respected Leadership Group. Our leadership group should be Judd, Ratten, Swan, Icke and possibly Harvey. Leave our players to learn the game AND the art of leadership so that when we get to 2012 / 13 and we are making a genuine play for the silverware, we have genuine onfield leadership at the club. Thomas was the least successful coach in history with the best team followed only by Percy Jones in 1980 Anthopides |
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| Author: | isdonis.george [ Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Leadership crises at Carlton |
Another poster said that in earlier days senior players had a word to players who needed to pull their head in. Fevola's contribution to our culture was that if senior figures around the club asked you to pull your head in you tell them to shove it. That's why it was disturbing to see him a week after going on the wagon as part of his discipline for pi$$ing on the window, openly drinking cans of VB near Swanny and other senior people at a VFL match to stick it up them. What really irritated was that one of our No 1 draft picks was with Fevola, learning how we do things at Carlton. Fevola’s mates at Carlton seem to want to continue that tradition. Houlehan’s not 18 he’s 27. Prohibition would be about as successful as it was in Al Capone’s days. The thing is for players to be able to “hold their grog” and not do too many stupid things after a few drinks. Val Perovic was a legendary consumer of alcohol but I don’t remember any reports of him behaving badly. When Parko arrived at Carlton a second time the culture was not that great under Elliott’s presidency and Parko started cleaning up the culture by retiring two or three legendary players. He probably made that a condition of accepting the job. I doubt that those players would hold it against him now. It’s only five minutes in club life since we shipped Fevola to the Lions, players have been away from the club for most of that time. Sticks and Ratts have not had time to start changing things post-Fevola. They couldn't do much while Fevola was there. Some bird in the Hun today complains about Sticks not getting out of his car when a reporter waylaid him but IMO that’s nothing. He obviously wants to see some action before the media are fed by the club again. Perhaps he could have got out of the car and said that, and should have his lines ready in case he’s waylaid. I wouldn’t think it’s practical to get the players together now as they could be anywhere, overseas or beyond communication. I have no problem with Sticks having a drink with the players. Sticks is as loyal as you get. After having a drink with the players and presumably trying to teach them how to hold their grog and drink in a civilised way, his loyalty is gonna be tested. He is torn between loyalty to players and club. As the boss he should leave early if he has a drink with the players and thereby keep some distance. |
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