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Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
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Author:  molsey [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
With the delisting of Cloke now three seasons later (following Ackland the year before), Carlton's two picks in the 2007 pre-season draft are now gone:

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php? ... her+Drafts

With 36 and 21 games respectively, how do you rate this draft? Bearing in mind both French and Deluca retired at the end of 2006, Carlton's big man ranks were shot. We picked up these two to fill the ruck breach.

Ackland was always an insult to me. How we dared pick him up after some of the woeful games I saw him play I have no idea. I understand that the recruitment of Ackland was on the cards for some time and a reason for the retirement of Deluca. Cloke, who I didnt rate at all, proved useful at times.

So given the attention to our rucking stocks in the main draft in the years after, did the Club do the right thing here? Did we overpay for Ackland; and was Cloke just insurance (and as such rather cheap insurance)?
Author:  spf [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
molsey wrote:
With the delisting of Cloke now three seasons later (following Ackland the year before), Carlton's two picks in the 2007 pre-season draft are now gone:

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php? ... her+Drafts

With 36 and 21 games respectively, how do you rate this draft? Bearing in mind both French and Deluca retired at the end of 2006, Carlton's big man ranks were shot. We picked up these two to fill the ruck breach.

Ackland was always an insult to me. How we dared pick him up after some of the woeful games I saw him play I have no idea. I understand that the recruitment of Ackland was on the cards for some time and a reason for the retirement of Deluca. Cloke, who I didnt rate at all, proved useful at times.

So given the attention to our rucking stocks in the main draft in the years after, did the Club do the right thing here? Did we overpay for Ackland; and was Cloke just insurance (and as such rather cheap insurance)?



I said it at the time to the rumours we were going to recruit Ackland that this was a really bad idea. I knew this was destined to be a wasted pick and was genuinely astounded when it went ahead. Ackland was an undersized, under motivated, self centred spud of a footballer. Pure football rubbish and no I do not have a good word to say about him. I saw him at the Bullants and he was a first rate dick.

I was hoping we could coax Barnaby into 1 more year as I felt his body was ok but the Pagan thing was bigger than I realized. I wasn't that unhappy that we picked up Cloke as I had heard he was keen but again he was undersized. If we had Barnaby French and Cameron Cloke as our first choice rucks throughout that year we would have been a lot better I think. Big bad Barnaby was never going to scare oppositions too much but always gave a contest and was better than people give him credit for. Personally I quite liked Barnaby bear.
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
Frenchy was coming good right when he retired. Stupid, bloody Pagan.

I thought it was a terrible idea that we recruited both of them at the time, but understood why we did it. To be honest, I thought Ackland would be far better than Cloke. Oh dear!

And how we paid him 300K a year always amazed me.

Funny how ruck stocks look now compared to then.
Author:  The_Cranium [ Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
Ackland was nothing short of a disgrace to the jumper. His insipid performances showed his complete lack of respect for everyone inbolved at the Carlton Football Club.

Clokey was never going to be good enough, but he was lion hearted and gave everything he had, and that deserves plenty of respect.

was certainly a lot more servicable than that other disgrace
Author:  Blue Blood Believer [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
The_Cranium wrote:
Ackland was nothing short of a disgrace to the jumper. His insipid performances showed his complete lack of respect for everyone inbolved at the Carlton Football Club.

Clokey was never going to be good enough, but he was lion hearted and gave everything he had, and that deserves plenty of respect.

was certainly a lot more servicable than that other disgrace

Couldn't agree more
Author:  london blue [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
At the the time, given the circumstances Cloke was a good decision. We had little coming through, little else to choose from. He was 22 (?), so worth the punt.

Cloke to Port
Barnaby and Acland from Port
Deluuca's brother ex-port

what a strange relationship we have with Port over ruckman.
Author:  Big Kahuna Boot [ Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
..(H)Ackland was a bad choice, no doubt about it.. ..Clokey i wasn't happy with at the time, viewed him as a pies reject, and always remember that stupid pies game when he opposed McKernan in the ruck, and kept sticking out his tongue and wiggling it at him.. ..first class knobjockey that day.. .... ..but for us, he tried hard, and seemed to try and turn his career around.. ..unfortunately, he's just not a ruckman, and needs to be played purely as a deep KPF.. ..could still make a play in the AFL.. ..maybe just not at our club, but playing lists can have a lot to do with a player's career.. ..i doubt we even got a decent year of service out of Ackland, and that first year he got lucky with clokey doin his shoulder, or he'd have played less game for us..
Author:  Michael Jezz [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
I don't think you can be too critical of a club when a PSD pick plays 3 seasons unless the pick 70 odd in the draft was going to be successful
Author:  Synbad [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
Lets burn some more picks.....

theyre just like redheads matches...

actually cloke did better than i thought he would....

ackland did better too....
Author:  lucablue [ Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
Synbad wrote:
Lets burn some more picks.....

theyre just like redheads matches...

actually cloke did better than i thought he would....

ackland did better too....


And if Maguire proves he's worth a punt via some good medical testing and we pick him up in the PSD, chances are that he'll do better than you thought he would. It's good of you to admit that you do get stuff wrong.
Author:  bondiblue [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
The_Cranium wrote:
Ackland was nothing short of a disgrace to the jumper. His insipid performances showed his complete lack of respect for everyone inbolved at the Carlton Football Club.

Clokey was never going to be good enough, but he was lion hearted and gave everything he had, and that deserves plenty of respect.

was certainly a lot more servicable than that other disgrace


Exactly...no need to add more to this post. :thumbsup:

Yes I should...Ackland is easily the most pathetic player I have seen in a CFC jumper.
What a disgrace. Not worth one red cent he received.
Stupid decision to recruit him. I'd like to know who gave him the nod. :mad:
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
Denis.
Author:  HELLAS BLUE [ Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
Cloke has been stiff IMO, especially compared to Ackland who only really tried in one game that I can remember.
Author:  The Blueseum [ Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
A summary of PSD choices over the last 20 years (Carlton only):

1990 Pre Season Draft
Pick 13 Adrian Bassett Coburg VFA (31)
Pick 27 Tim Rieniets Coburg VFA (24)
Pick 41 Craig Hucker Carlton AFL (nil)
Pick 49 Brendan Roberson Sydney AFL (nil)

1991 Pre Season Draft
Pick 13 Darren Tarczon Nth Melbourne AFL (11)
Pick 30 Ben Robertson Noble Park VMFL (3)
Pick 44 Mark Bouw Carlton AFL (Nil)
Pick 52 Paul Williams St Kilda AFL (nil)

1992 Pre Season Draft
Pick 5 Mark Athorn Sydney AFL (30 for Carlton)
Pick 19 Paul McCormack Dandenong (14)
Pick 33 Rohan Welsh Dandenong (42)
Pick 46 Paul Tuddenham* Collingwood AFL (Nil)
Pick 54 Jeremy Smith Carlton AFL (1)

1993 Pre Season Draft
Pick 13 Andrew Leoncelli* Xavier College APS (Nil for Carlton, 100+ for Melbourne)
Pick 29 Damien Sheehan Port Adelaide SANFL (nil)
Pick 43 Matthew Penny* Box Hill VFA (nil)
Pick 57 Chris O'Dwyer Sydney AFL (nil)
Pick 67 Kelvin Holmes Claremont WAFL (nil)
Pick 74 Christian Davidson Collegians VAFA (nil)

1994 Pre Season Draft
Pick 19 Dean Rice St Kilda AFL (118 for Carlton, 200+ overall)
Pick 32 Brad Pearce Brisbane AFL (77)
Pick 35 Peter Green Sydney AFL (1)

1995 Pre Season Draft
Pick 13 Matt Clape West Coast AFL (58 for Carlton)
Pick 27 Glenn Manton Essendon* AFL (157 for Carlton)
Pick 36 Alan Thorpe* Footscray AFL (Nil for Carlton)

1996 Pre Season Draft
Nil

1997 Pre Season Draft
Pick 8 Darren Hulme Dandenong-Southern U18 U18 VMFL (110)

1998 Pre Season Draft
Nil

1999 Pre Season Draft
Nil

2000 Pre Season Draft
Nil

2000/1 Pre Season Draft
Nil

2001/2 Pre Season Draft
Nil

2002/3 Pre Season Draft
Nil

2003/4 Pre Season Draft
Pick 2 Nick Stevens Port Adelaide AFL (104 for Carlton)

2004/5 Pre Season Draft
Pick 3 Eddie Betts Calder Cannons U18 (soon to be 100+)

2005/6 Pre Season Draft
Pick 1 Dylan McLaren Brisbane Lions AFL (13 for Carlton)

2006/7 Pre Season Draft
Pick 1 Cain Ackland St Kilda (21)
Pick 9 Cameron Cloke Collingwood (36)

2007/8 Pre Season Draft
Pick 2 Darren Pfeiffer Adelaide Crows (7)

2008/9 Pre Season Draft
Pick 2 Chris Johnson Melbourne Demons (10 currently)

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php? ... her+Drafts

Rice, Manton, Stevens, Hulme and Betts are 5 PSD picks that delivered over 100 quality games for Carlton. Rice and Stevens also had big blocks of time at other Clubs.

If you think about Cloke's 2007 where injnury prevented more games, he was quite unlucky to not make it to 50 Carlton games. In this league of 50+ (but less than 100) you'd be comparing to Clape for quality of pick. Different players, different times, different list strengths.

Ackland's 21 is at the lower end and the cost of Ackland (and some others) versus picking up an untried player or reject from another Club needs to be considered.

From the Blueseum
Author:  bondiblue [ Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
phoenix johnson wrote:
Denis.


Eye for talent :roll:

Desperate people do desperate things.
Cool heads make cool decisions.
Denis must be an impulsive hothead.
He's be a well sought after shopper in retail land.....especially at the Reject Shop.
Author:  GWS [ Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
For a little context...

PSD

Pick Player Recruited from Club

1 Cain Ackland
2 Mal Michael
3 Ben Ross
4 Adam Cockshell
5 Josh Thurgood
6 Kent Kingsley
7 Matthew Clarke
8 Chris Bryan
9 Cameron Cloke

Not a lot of joy there all round really...

Rookies

1. Carlton: Sam Jacobs
2. Essendon*: Dean Dick
3. Kangaroos: Leigh Adams
4. Brisbane: Anthony Corrie
5. Port Adelaide: Alex Lee
5. Hawthorn: Brett Collins
6. Geelong: Joel Reynolds
7. Richmond: Tasman Clingan
8. St Kilda: Clinton Jones
9. Collingwood: Sharrod Wellingham
10. Western Bulldogs: Gavin Hughes
11. Melbourne: Daniel Hayes
12. Fremantle: Chris Smith
13. Adelaide: Andrew McIntyre
14. Sydney: Nick Smith
15. West Coast: Jamie McNamara
16. Carlton: Michael Jamison
17. Essendon*: Danny Chartres
18. Kangaroos: Ben Hughes
19. Brisbane: Scott Clouston
20. Port Adelaide: Gavin Grose
21. Hawthorn: Matthew Suckling
22. Geelong: Liam Bedford
23. Richmond: Jake King
24. St Kilda: Luke van Rheenen
25. Collingwood: Brent Macaffer
26. Western Bulldogs: Jarrod Harbrow
27. Fremantle: Andrew Foster
28. Adelaide: James Turner
29. Sydney: Matthew O'Dwyer
30. West Coast: Llane Spaanderman
31. Carlton: Ross Young
33. Essendon*: Adam Ramanauskas
34. Kangaroos: Matt Campbell
35. Brisbane: Daniel Dzufer
36. Port Adelaide: Nathan Batsanis
37. Hawthorn: Sam Gibson
38. Geelong: Jason Davenport
39. St Kilda: Robert Eddy
40. Collingwood: Martin Clarke
41. Western Bulldogs: Marty Pask
42. Fremantle: Darren Rumble
43. Adelaide: Rhys Archard
44. Sydney: Luke Brennan
45. West Coast: Chad Jones
46. Carlton: PASS
47. Kangaroos: Tim Hutchison
48. Brisbane: Haydyn Kiel
49. Port Adelaide: Peter Hardy
50. Geelong: Tom Lonergan
51. St Kilda: James Wall
52. Western Bulldogs: Michael West
53. Fremantle: Benet Copping
54. Adelaide: Greg Gallman
55. Sydney: Matthew Davis
56. West Coast: Ben Sharp
57. Brisbane: Joel Tippett
58. St Kilda: Jarryn Geary
59. Sydney: Earl Shaw
60. West Coast: Ashley Thornton
61. Brisbane: Will Hamill
62. St Kilda: Jayden Attard
63. Sydney: PASS
64. West Coast: Beau Wilkes
Author:  JackWorrall [ Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
Nobody in the Rookie Draft stands out either.
Author:  GWS [ Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
JackWorrall wrote:
Nobody in the Rookie Draft stands out either.


Clinton Jones has probably done the most but I reckon we've done okay with Jacobs so far considering that list.
Author:  GWS [ Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Post-Mortem: 2007 Pre-season Draft (Ackland / Cloke)
Oh - and Jamison... :donk:
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