TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP

IMO no. He was a dominant ruckman and occasional forward who had some pretty good results. I would have preffered Cotchin if this were to be the case. I am against trying to make a potential champion ruckman into a solid KPP. IMO thats all he'd be as a forward.

In 3 or 4 years time when he's fully matured it's going to be like having an extra midfielder out there. He's going to give us a massive advantage.

I would honestly have chosen Kreuzer over Rich last year - even knowning what we know now.

So I don't really understand the question, because I don't think a single recruiter even remotely saw him as anything other than a mobile ruckman with great endurance, brilliant 2nd and 3rd efforts, terrific ability below his knees, and a willingness to contest like few others.

Beantown wrote:

Thanks Beantown.

Ill admit I am in 2 minds about Kreuzer, would be a GREAT ruckman but I also see those traits whick would make him a great player around the ground after the ruck contest translating into a freakish FF who roves his own crumbs and applies forward line pressure like a HFF.

How about Henderson ??? How would you rate him amongst the KPF's in the 2007 draft ??? If we HAD to pick a KPF with #8 would have you gone with Henderson ???

Ever since I was a kid, Carlton had very good - great ruckmen. Big Nick... Fitzy... Harry... then Matty Allen... and after that, pfft... It'll be brilliant to have that ascendency in the middle once again, won't it?

hampson could be our next dominant FF. the speed and size of this guy are amazing. the marks will start to stick.

latte thanks wrote:

hampson could be our next dominant FF. the speed and size of this guy are amazing. the marks will start to stick.

:deluca:

hampson could be our next dominant FF. the speed and size of this guy are amazing. the marks will start to stick.

Author:	coryne [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
Here is a TOTALLY fictional, pretty stupid, scenerio for you guys ............... It's draft day 2007, Carlton have #1 and #8 and are in desprate need for a KPP after trading Kennedy in the Judd deal and having found out that Fev has a career threatening disease known as "boganitis" and will lost from the club by the end of 2009. We have also seen a psychic who has told us that Hampson will develop into a great ruckman, Jacobs will be solid back up and we will get a man mountain in Warnock who could be ANYTHING. So what does the club do knowing we need KPP's and our ruck stocks are taken care of ??? Would Kreuzer still be selected at #1 based on his athleticism and freakish abilities with the sole purpose of developing him into a KPF or would we go for Cotchin to beef up our midfield ??? Would we take Henderson at #8 as he was the best KPF available ??? IF our ruck division can be held up by Hampson and Warnock (with Jacobs as back up) and IF we develop Kreuzer into a FF and Henderson into a CHF we could have a twin towers to rival ANY club's forward line. So have we theoretically walked away from the 2007 draft with the x2 best KPF's available to us without even really knowing it at the time ???

Author:	BlueEyes [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
Yes I think so

Author:	bluehammer [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP

Author:	Beantown [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
IMO no. He was a dominant ruckman and occasional forward who had some pretty good results. I would have preffered Cotchin if this were to be the case. I am against trying to make a potential champion ruckman into a solid KPP. IMO thats all he'd be as a forward. In 3 or 4 years time when he's fully matured it's going to be like having an extra midfielder out there. He's going to give us a massive advantage.

Author:	coryne [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
Beantown wrote: IMO no. He was a dominant ruckman and occasional forward who had some pretty good results. I would have preffered Cotchin if this were to be the case. I am against trying to make a potential champion ruckman into a solid KPP. IMO thats all he'd be as a forward. In 3 or 4 years time when he's fully matured it's going to be like having an extra midfielder out there. He's going to give us a massive advantage. Thanks Beantown. Ill admit I am in 2 minds about Kreuzer, would be a GREAT ruckman but I also see those traits whick would make him a great player around the ground after the ruck contest translating into a freakish FF who roves his own crumbs and applies forward line pressure like a HFF. How about Henderson ??? How would you rate him amongst the KPF's in the 2007 draft ??? If we HAD to pick a KPF with #8 would have you gone with Henderson ???

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	dannyboy [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
I keep remembering a comment by Caz about Kruise being a hunter - that being the case he'd be wasted at FF. I'd play Hammer there before Kruise.

Author:	ryan2000 [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
I would honestly have chosen Kreuzer over Rich last year - even knowning what we know now. Kreuzer is a special talent and you just can't pass somebody like that up. HELL - He could even prove to be more valuable than Gibbs and Murphy in the coming years.

Author:	JohnM [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
What a waste it would be, playing MK as a permanent forward. I'll bet Dean Cox could probably kick 50-60 a year if he stationed himself in the F50, but why would you bother? Better to stick a spud like Lynch up forward, and have a freakishly mobile ruckman wreak havoc around the ground, almost impossible to match-up on. That's what MK will be doing for us over the next decade. So I don't really understand the question, because I don't think a single recruiter even remotely saw him as anything other than a mobile ruckman with great endurance, brilliant 2nd and 3rd efforts, terrific ability below his knees, and a willingness to contest like few others.

Author:	The Duke [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
ryan2000 wrote: I would honestly have chosen Kreuzer over Rich last year - even knowning what we know now. X2. Rich is a dimeadozen, Kreuz is rocking horse shit.

Author:	woof [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
JohnM wrote: So I don't really understand the question, because I don't think a single recruiter even remotely saw him as anything other than a mobile ruckman with great endurance, brilliant 2nd and 3rd efforts, terrific ability below his knees, and a willingness to contest like few others. I wonder what Warnock will be doing? I mean he did leave Freo because of Sandilands. The recruitment of Warnock means the match committee must have other plans for Kruezer or Hampson.

Author:	JohnM [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
Gotta have two strong ruckmen, definitely. Kruze and Warnock would be a perfect combo if they can both get on the park together. Hammer's the interesting one. If he keeps coming on and Warnock gets his body right, Carlton will have a very good problem on its hands: To play all three together, you'd think that Warnock would ruck for 60% of the time at centre bounces, and Kruze/Hammer would share 2nd ruck and rotate through the key forward posts. Either that, or we sell a ruckman to a club that needs one for a seriously good price. Unfortunately for us, it appears Hammer's too popular with the ladies to ever consider trading... would probably cost us 5000 memberships and about a zillion poster sales. From early draft reports, Warnock reads as a good kick for goal, so he's also an option to rotate through the forward line possibly. Either way we look at it, the days of us getting monstered in the ruck should we well and truly over. Ever since I was a kid, Carlton had very good - great ruckmen. Big Nick... Fitzy... Harry... then Matty Allen... and after that, pfft... It'll be brilliant to have that ascendency in the middle once again, won't it?

Author:	Big Kahuna Boot [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
..still a bit early to tell, and i agree around the ground work he is fantastic.. ..thing is, it seems the growing trend is tall athletic/mobile rucks so as more are found and played, he might be match up well around the ground, he does also have excellant FF footy smarts so could become an excellant FF too..

Author:	Beantown [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
coryne wrote: Beantown wrote: IMO no. He was a dominant ruckman and occasional forward who had some pretty good results. I would have preffered Cotchin if this were to be the case. I am against trying to make a potential champion ruckman into a solid KPP. IMO thats all he'd be as a forward. In 3 or 4 years time when he's fully matured it's going to be like having an extra midfielder out there. He's going to give us a massive advantage. Thanks Beantown. Ill admit I am in 2 minds about Kreuzer, would be a GREAT ruckman but I also see those traits whick would make him a great player around the ground after the ruck contest translating into a freakish FF who roves his own crumbs and applies forward line pressure like a HFF. How about Henderson ??? How would you rate him amongst the KPF's in the 2007 draft ??? If we HAD to pick a KPF with #8 would have you gone with Henderson ??? Henderson was far and away the best KPP in that draft IMO.

Author:	isdonis.george [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
JohnM wrote: Ever since I was a kid, Carlton had very good - great ruckmen. Big Nick... Fitzy... Harry... then Matty Allen... and after that, pfft... It'll be brilliant to have that ascendency in the middle once again, won't it? And before them Jack 'Chooka' Howell, Bill Milroy, Ken 'Solvol' Hands, Graham Donaldson and Maurie Sankey who was lost in a car accident.

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Author:	timetodeliver2004 [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
I think it somewhat misses the point. The recruiting staff have always been very vocal about our plan of always just taking the best available talent, especially with our earlier draft picks. We haven't used these picks to specifically address deficiencies in the list, rather just to get the best player that we could. Kreuzer was (in our eyes and I think has proven to be so far) the best player in that draft. Therefore, yes he would have been drafted. In all honesty, I think depending on where he was positioned he could be the best forward, ruckman, defender or even midfielder from that draft. He is just so ridiculously talent in all areas for a man of his age and his size. Will be dominant in coming years rotating through every part of the ground - is one of the many reasons to be excited as a Blues fan. Can't wait to see this kid become even more special than he is now!

Author:	latte thanks [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
hampson could be our next dominant FF. the speed and size of this guy are amazing. the marks will start to stick.

Author:	TheBluesMuse [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
latte thanks wrote: hampson could be our next dominant FF. the speed and size of this guy are amazing. the marks will start to stick. :deluca:

Author:	The Hoff [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
TheBluesMuse wrote: latte thanks wrote: hampson could be our next dominant FF. the speed and size of this guy are amazing. the marks will start to stick. :deluca: Get some of the magic gloves then.

Author:	bondiblue [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
latte thanks wrote: hampson could be our next dominant FF. the speed and size of this guy are amazing. the marks will start to stick. They'll start to stick consistently soon. Do not underestimate the Hammer; he's still developing. Just watch the Hammer evolve into a star.

Author:	Crusader [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Would Kreuzer STILL be picked with #1 in 2007 soley as a KPP
Definitely. Krooz is the type of player that you just put out on the park. No real role. Just get your hands on the footy. He's just that good.... There's nothing stopping us from playing a good amount of games with Kreuzer at ruck rover. Agree with CM. "Hunter" is the most appropriate term here. Don't know a lot about Henderson's TAC form. Didn't really care at the time about anyone other than Kreuzer.