Quote:
So my question is, how do we solve this problem?
I'll tell you for a fee..
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| Kickouts: How to fix them? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25934 |
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| Author: | Donstuie [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Kickouts: How to fix them? |
It's been a massive problem for us all year, as well as the year before and the one before that. Against a disciplined and well-coached side we have again been caught with our pants down. Looking at it at face value it seems when it's out turn to take a kickout one (or both) of the following happens: a) Our players are standing still, either unwilling to run and present, or unsure of where to go from good zoning b) When a lead is presented up the middle, it's not taken, and again the first kick is to the back pocket We all despise it, we all tear our hair out, not just at the mistakes but the fact that we seem to make them over and over again. One problem I have with the team right now (and is symptomatic of a young team) is that against teams that CAN exploit a weakness we have, they are allowed to exploit it with impunity. This is why we struggle against teams like the crows, hawks and saints. But teams like the dogs, collingwood (before last time) and of course the lowly ranked teams can't/don't exploit this weakness. It's also why we might flog one of these teams one week, and get flogged ourselves the next, all because of one weakness. So my question is, how do we solve this problem? Is there an easy fix? Is there someone we can turn to who can help us out here? What can we do? |
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| Author: | budzy [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Quote: So my question is, how do we solve this problem? I'll tell you for a fee..
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| Author: | Cazzesman [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. As a result we struggle to kick long and over the 2nd line of coverage in the zone. Teams that have long kickers force the zone back further which then opens up bigger gaps from 25-45 out. Bigger gaps give player more time to play on, run and create. Hopefully Okeefe might be that man in the future. Regards Cazzesman |
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| Author: | budzy [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. .... Why haven't we drafted one such player (before ROK)? |
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| Author: | jimmae [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Problem 1 - The time taken to get a kicker down there is regularly too long; the opposition have set their zone and adjusted it several times before we even take a look at what's on offer Problem 2 - The midfield's idea of run and spread to present is either stand in a zone inside the opposition's zone - static - or to implement the huddle Problem 3 - They are afraid of turning it over in the middle of the ground at any point in the game, and this is reflected in kick-outs Problem 4 - The kicker is rarely inventive Drop it on your boot, take the 10 metres and you might get it 70 m out if you kick to space on the wing. Take that short option as the signal goes down instead of 10 seconds later and then run, drag a man with you. Don't be afraid to have a couple of guys 'cheat' the play to provide that second or third link in the play; have another couple of guys sit back to cover any issues. All of this should be basic if you actually spend an hour on tape each day, thinking for yourself and coming up with some ideas to discuss with the coaching staff, then design, practice, and execute. Tell me lads; are you even doing that? |
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| Author: | bosman [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. As a result we struggle to kick long and over the 2nd line of coverage in the zone. Teams that have long kickers force the zone back further which then opens up bigger gaps from 25-45 out. Bigger gaps give player more time to play on, run and create. Hopefully Okeefe might be that man in the future. Regards Cazzesman Why can't the person kicking out then play on run about 20 meters and then bomb to long over the zone - Collingwood (shaw) does this every time and gets the ball to the center of the ground... |
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| Author: | Donstuie [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. As a result we struggle to kick long and over the 2nd line of coverage in the zone. Teams that have long kickers force the zone back further which then opens up bigger gaps from 25-45 out. Bigger gaps give player more time to play on, run and create. Hopefully Okeefe might be that man in the future. Regards Cazzesman We tried it with Hartlett once, and it failed. I like what I'm hearing about RoK, but in reality if we're relying on a kid not ready for senior football yet, we're in deeper trouble than we realise. |
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| Author: | Effes [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
bosman wrote: Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. As a result we struggle to kick long and over the 2nd line of coverage in the zone. Teams that have long kickers force the zone back further which then opens up bigger gaps from 25-45 out. Bigger gaps give player more time to play on, run and create. Hopefully Okeefe might be that man in the future. Regards Cazzesman Why can't the person kicking out then play on run about 20 meters and then bomb to long over the zone - Collingwood (shaw) does this every time and gets the ball to the center of the ground... Adelaide's concentration was so good that they had players in positions to prevent someone chipping it to themselves. Against shit teams you can get away with it but Adelaide won't give you that chance. |
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| Author: | Cazzesman [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
budzy wrote: Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. .... Why haven't we drafted one such player (before ROK)? There just aren't many around. Unlike the NFL they have to be more than just a good kick. There have been a couple of good kicks around but they just haven't got the other talent to go with it. Regards Cazzesman |
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| Author: | stubba [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. As a result we struggle to kick long and over the 2nd line of coverage in the zone. Teams that have long kickers force the zone back further which then opens up bigger gaps from 25-45 out. Bigger gaps give player more time to play on, run and create. Hopefully Okeefe might be that man in the future. Regards Cazzesman I'm not sure I agree. As I see it, the kicker's instruction is to kick it to the tall (Kreuzer or Hampson). This is fine but what happens next is what concerns me. The tall is trying to mark it, which again is fine. But if he can't mark it, he should palm the ball to a crumber. I don't recall seeing our crumbers at the fall of the ball at all. Rather the crumbing is done by the opposition. I recall Harry placing himself forward of centre at the kick in and rather than marking it he belted towards CHF. At least this took the ball away from the scoring zone |
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| Author: | camel [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
I agree the kick in strategy needs a lot of work. But the simple fact is we got absolutely pantsed by the Crows yesterday. It wouldn't have mattered what we did, they would have towelled us up. 
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| Author: | 99prelim [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Effes wrote: bosman wrote: Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. As a result we struggle to kick long and over the 2nd line of coverage in the zone. Teams that have long kickers force the zone back further which then opens up bigger gaps from 25-45 out. Bigger gaps give player more time to play on, run and create. Hopefully Okeefe might be that man in the future. Regards Cazzesman Why can't the person kicking out then play on run about 20 meters and then bomb to long over the zone - Collingwood (shaw) does this every time and gets the ball to the center of the ground... Adelaide's concentration was so good that they had players in positions to prevent someone chipping it to themselves. Against shit teams you can get away with it but Adelaide won't give you that chance. Don't we also have the same number of players on the ground as Adelaide? doesn't that mean the number of square metres per player should be the same.....or have we been playing with 14 players on the ground this year coz that's what it looks like sometimes. Their kickins reach their f50 before our players have stopped blaming each other for why we didn't kick the goal in the first place. |
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| Author: | Effes [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
99prelim wrote: Don't we also have the same number of players on the ground as Adelaide? doesn't that mean the number of square metres per player should be the same.....or have we been playing with 14 players on the ground this year coz that's what it looks like sometimes. Their kickins reach their f50 before our players have stopped blaming each other for why we didn't kick the goal in the first place. I agree it's definitely a weakness...as the players gain more experience they'll realise you can't have lapses in concentration. It isn't just kickouts but at stoppages or in a marking contest. |
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| Author: | Michael Jezz [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. As a result we struggle to kick long and over the 2nd line of coverage in the zone. Teams that have long kickers force the zone back further which then opens up bigger gaps from 25-45 out. Bigger gaps give player more time to play on, run and create. Hopefully Okeefe might be that man in the future. Regards Cazzesman I think what you are really saying is kicking skills have never been the priority of the recruiting department. |
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| Author: | DocSherrin III [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
As per usual I intend to watch quite a bit of preseason training during the 2010 summer. Rhys O'Keeffe is certainly the man for this job and I expect to see him practicing this over and over and over again. A Josh Hunt type who could play forward as well...we get this kid super fit over summer and I reckon we'll go a long way to solving this problem...he and the team just need a strategy to go with the skill level. |
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| Author: | TheInsider [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
budzy wrote: Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. .... Why haven't we drafted one such player (before ROK)? rich? 
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| Author: | Effes [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
TheInsider wrote: budzy wrote: Cazzesman wrote: 1 main problem is that we don't have a player who can kick the ball 55 hard and flat. .... Why haven't we drafted one such player (before ROK)? rich? To play in the back pocket? |
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| Author: | DIAMOTISM [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Effes wrote: To play in the back pocket? Kickouts!!! Read the title of the discussion  Hurley would have been good (if available) for this. He is going to be a star. |
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| Author: | TheInsider [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
Effes wrote: TheInsider wrote: rich? To play in the back pocket? a lot of mids do the kickouts now |
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| Author: | Effes [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kickouts: How to fix them? |
DIAMOTISM wrote: Effes wrote: To play in the back pocket? Kickouts!!! Read the title of the discussion Hurley would have been good (if available) for this. He is going to be a star.  If the best player available at our first pick this year is a HB type like Hurn then I hope we take them. Someone like Josh Drummond was rookied by Brisbane from the local league IIRC...magnificent kick but can't stay on the park. |
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