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When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
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Author:  Virgin Blue [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Crows have snuck underneath the radar.

Porplysia and Tippett = 2 young very good fwrds.

But what do we have? Yarran and Betts and Garlett are great, but are small. Setanta has been lost the past 3 games or so. He is 27. By the time he makes it as a consistent quality fwd, his career will be in the twilight. That doesn't mean you don't keep persisting with him, but right now I think we need to see a Kruezer developed as fwrd as well.

When is Ratten going to bite the bullet, play Hammer and one of Warnock or Jacobs in ruck, and start grooming Kruezer as a fwd? To my mind Kruezer = Kozi type big bodied, tall fwd one day, and the sooner we start developing him in that way the better our future will be.

Sure you can play Waite there next year with Fevola, but that means you have a 30 year old and a 27 year old. Fine for the short term, but don't we want to start developing a fwdline for the future?

I watched with envy yesterday as Porplysia and Tippett bagged 4 each, and the Crows also have Sellar and Mckernan on the list too, plus oldies in Hentschell and Burton.

So many options, and no high draft picks. How does that work??

We really need to draft a genuine fwd prospect in the draft this year.

And the other issue is, when we start developing these young fwdrs, we need to kick it to them a bit more than we currently are. Understand we are in the 8 so you go for broke and go to Fev, but at what point do you structure up a tad differently in order to develop the young fwds? Pre-season??
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Crows have an excellent development program..
Theyre well drilled and coached.
Their players defend and attack as one.
They are a phalanx

When you play like this your defence is better and your forward line is better as everybody is responsible to attack and defend.

when you lack unison and its very individual .. youll struggle at both ends.

The game is won and lost through the middle and between the arcs...

If youre looking for individuals to be stars youre pushing shit up hill....

simple..
Author:  DIAMOTISM [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
3 players that would have spent time in the forward line were outs so we had to try something different yesterday.

Having Fisher as the second tall has failed. He hasn't come on. Cloke was being used as the second tall in the pre-season and earlier in the season and that hasn't worked either.

Ratten didn't recruit Fisher or Cloke so he hasn't had much to work with. Developing is not instant.

He now has an opportunity to develop the youngsters like Kruezer, Yarran, Gartlett and others who are currently untried so I believe this is currently in progress.
Author:  Cazzesman [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Virgin Blue wrote:
When is Ratten going to bite the bullet, play Hammer and one of Warnock or Jacobs in ruck, and start grooming Kruezer as a fwd? To my mind Kruezer = Kozi type big bodied, tall fwd one day, and the sooner we start developing him in that way the better our future will be.


Where do you think Hammer and Big K were changing out of the ruck prior to Hammer being injured. When a team gets some injuries to talls the Coach has to try and plug holes. He would love to get Hammer & K forward but things just haven't worked that way. Waite, Fisher, Warnock, Jamo and Austin have struggled with injury and form obviously so it makes it tough to try other players where they might be best suited. Cloke and Setanta are both up and down so Ratts just doesn't have the cattle when it is needed.

Regards Cazzesman
Author:  bluegirl72 [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Well geez.....
we have an excellent forward line in waiting,but we have players out in defence,and the ruck..so we don't have the luxury of executing our proper forward line structure.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
My biggest criticism of ratten he has stuffed around with the half forward line all year
we currently have two players Austin and kruez who both could develop into very good CHF yet we have stuffed around with Fisher Cloke Wiggins and ohalpin we havewatered a year of development on 4 players who are never going to make it

Why we persist in playing Kruez in the ruck is mind boggling when we have Jacobs Warnock and Hampson with Cloke as even further back up andif push comes to shove Santy can pinch hit there

Chf is the hardest position to play on the ground and it takes years to become good at it and you need footy smarts to play it the blokes we have put in there are not footy smart

of all the big ticks we can give Ratten this year this one is a massive X
Author:  Pafloyul [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
bluegirl72 wrote:
Well geez.....
we have an excellent forward line in waiting,but we have players out in defence,and the ruck..so we don't have the luxury of executing our proper forward line structure.


Well geez...indeed.

Have a moan at the guy for having a passionate interest in us doing well why don't we. Yes, players are injured but something is still missing in the groundwork for the future IMO. Of course the tone of this forum is going to be different after a heavy loss. Let's not be so smug about everything. :?
Author:  budzy [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
If we plan on sending one of our current young talls (Kreuzer/Austin/etc.) to the forward line next year and beyond I just hope that they're given the proper time and development in that role instead of being thrown all over the park like Setanta has been over the last 5 years.

No chopping and changing ...develop the player properly for the role.
Author:  TheInsider [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
we definitely need to recruit some key fwds (if there are any decent ones available).
next year all being well we will have fev, waite, kruezer, austin who can all play key position up forward. hammer and warnock could possibly fill that role as well. i dont think ohailpin is good enough. smalls we have betts, garlett, yarran, robinson. walker can play tall or small as could hadley. murphy has come on as a goalkicking mid as has simpson. like to see gibbs and judd kick more goals.
another key forward would be very handy as someone in the porplyzia/mckinley type role.
all fit and up and running and there is some real options.

i believe as said by others that we have given fisher, wiggins, cloke, setanta, hartlett their chance this year and they arent up to it. simple.
Author:  Donstuie [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Let us consider our recent run with prospective key forwards/defenders:
Walker - Missed almost two seasons with shoulder
Waite - Gone for 2009 with knee, no guarantee he'll ever get back to his best
Jamison - Gone for 2009, plus recurring shoulder problems
Austin - Still very young, learning well, but praying he can be up to it one day
Bower - Missed a lot of last year through similar injury (shoulder again?)
Fisher - Knee, shoulder, finger injuries. Any chance to be a decent player long gone.
Hartlett - One setback after another
Edwards - Lacks the desire (especially disappointing given the chances he's had with players being out)
Cloke - Every time he looks to have turned a corner, does something really stupid to disrupt the team
Tiller - Out for season (I think?)
Stanton - Out for season
Kreuz - Forced to be our #1 ruckman through injuries to others

And should I even mention Angwin?

The two constants in our team have been Fev and Thornton.

The point here is that our luck with key position players has been abysmal, both in relation to form, injury and mental toughness. Whether this is poor development on our part, poor application by players or just plain [REDACTED] bad luck, the fact remains we've never really had a full complement of players to choose from. The balance has always been disrupted in some way, and until we can get our key guys all fit and giving 100%, we'll continue to have to move them on a chessboard.

No doubt Hurley would've been handy, and that if one of Panos or Talia are available we'll have a close look at them. But this problem won't go away until we can get a full squad to choose from. Yes, we need the structure in place, but we also need the players to be able to prcatice and develop that structure together.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
I thought Lappin was our Forwards Coach.


His comment earlier in the year that "Fev was turning his hair grey" seems pretty stupid now after winning his second coleman medal!
Author:  WA Blue [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Lets not forget Josh Kennedy was chosen to be the man for CHF but had to be traded to get the great one.

Unfortunate but it's hard to get everything. Thats why we're 7th not 1st on the ladder.

Judgeing on scores kicked this year. we look ok compared to some. A Fev injury would be the end of us though.

I still think defence is our worst area.
Author:  blu944 [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Sydney Blue wrote:

Why we persist in playing Kruez in the ruck is mind boggling when we have Jacobs Warnock and Hampson with Cloke as even further back up andif push comes to shove Santy can pinch hit there




I'd say it's because Kruezer's biggest strength is his tank and his second efforts. You play him around the ground and you're playing to his strengths. Fortunately he can take a grab and kick a goal, so you'd imagine he'll be a great player for us as someone who can be moved around to create mismatches that suit us. Warnock will come in and hopefully play a season as a starting ruckman, but the fact remains, Kruezer will always have stints in the ruck even if it makes supporters uneasy that there isn't one person named at CHF every single week.
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
WA Blue wrote:
Lets not forget Josh Kennedy was chosen to be the man for CHF but had to be traded to get the great one.

Unfortunate but it's hard to get everything. Thats why we're 7th not 1st on the ladder.

Judgeing on scores kicked this year. we look ok compared to some. A Fev injury would be the end of us though.

I still think defence is our worst area.



why defence????

The game isnt played as different compartments.... its the overall gameplan and linking up coherently that makes you effective...

Dunno if you get that....
Author:  sinbagger [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Interesting everyone thinks our forward line is a problem yet this year only two other teams (bulldogs and cats) have scored better than us...
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
sinbagger wrote:
Interesting everyone thinks our forward line is a problem yet this year only two other teams (bulldogs and cats) have scored better than us...

Its not about the forward line... its not about the backline..... its about how you link the whole thing into one thats imporatnt...
Author:  BigBlueWave [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Oh please .. don't start on Ratten again ... not that he has done everything right ... but no more hate posts please. Ratten has done a great job this year ... 13 wins is a super return. Next year ... looking up.
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
BlueRob wrote:
Oh please .. don't start on Ratten again ... not that he has done everything right ... but no more hate posts please. Ratten has done a great job this year ... 13 wins is a super return. Next year ... looking up.



You have to look inwardly critically or you wont improve.

Are you happy with everything?
Are all of our players playing to the best of their abilities?

Do we have no room for betterment?

You get caught up in backslapping and youll end up bckwards in a hurry.....
Author:  sinbagger [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
BlueRob wrote:
Oh please .. don't start on Ratten again ... not that he has done everything right ... but no more hate posts please. Ratten has done a great job this year ... 13 wins is a super return. Next year ... looking up.


Everyone can improve at the club, even Ratten...
Author:  frank dardew [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is Ratten going to start developing a fwrdline?
Our second best forward statistically anyway wasnt playing yesterday - Betts with 37 goals - still think the forward line of betts gartlett yarran Fev Setanta and another - is a developing forward line - need another young tall forward pushing up so that fish or cloke are not in consideration but either trade or draft one of those -Setanta hasnt been as good since coming back from injury but still worth perservering with .
Cruise and Hammer may also play a role

Gartlett is the main development this year to complement Fev and Eddie

Robinson has also been tried there so once again a development move.

Waite also is a very good forward and could play there if Jamo was fit

Disappointing yesterday but 13 wins for the season a very good effort from where we have been
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