TalkingCarlton
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

The Difference Between Tanking And Yesterday
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2575		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  BlueMark [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  The Difference Between Tanking And Yesterday
Yesterday we saw a team having a red-hot go and trying its guts out to win. We saw kids backing themselves and not dropping thier heads when things did not go thier way. We saw the older players doing the same. Yesterday we saw a team lose a game but were far from defeated. In the end thats all you can ask.

If we continue to approach games with that attitude and sustained effort, we will be 'winners' a lot sooner than some pundits think.




PS I still hate losing.
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Difference Between Tanking And Yesterday
BlueMark wrote:
Yesterday we saw a team having a red-hot go and trying its guts out to win. We saw kids backing themselves and not dropping thier heads when things did not go thier way. We saw the older players doing the same. Yesterday we saw a team lose a game but were far from defeated. In the end thats all you can ask.

If we continue to approach games with that attitude and sustained effort, we will be 'winners' a lot sooner than some pundits think.




PS I still hate losing.



Interesting analysis Mark.....some real thought provoking stuff there...
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:05 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree with you, Mark. Seeing the kids try hard, but fall short is far more positive to me than seeing us play in a way which would ensure losing.

It would appear now to me that we are well below the class of most senior AFL teams.

Bring on 2006!
Author:  AGRO [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:18 am ]
Post subject: 
No one said anything about tanking.

I too was impressed with the effort that the team made – it was certainly better than the effort against Melbourne.

However if any one thinks that the personnel we have at the moment will improve to a level that will threaten for a top four spot and possibly a premiership – it will be time to bring out the jousting sticks.

Denis can make this current list a team of honest goers and triers, he can make this team a team that may challenge for a spot in the lower reaches of the eight (maybe eighth, but only just eighth), but not even Denis can make this team a top 4 side.

We need higher quality personnel – if you think we can get them by finishing 10th for the next 4 years – that’s great I hope we do I really do.

Please dont compare us to Geelong - they had a better base to work with our base is nowhere near where Geelong's was when they started out on their road to the top. :wink:
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
We played for the 'honourable loss'. 16 players behind the ball.. made it tough for the Crows.. but we were never going to really win.. they may have lost it....
But if thats what you want going forwards gentlemen and ladies.. well ....

Denis in my opinion knows what needs to be done now.
EVERYBODY will get a run so im betting youll see Russell and Co in soon.

The picks and an uncontracted player are crucial.

Lets not kid ourselves about "The difference between yesterday and tanking " threads... we were not there to win but to minimise the damage and maybe pinch a win.

Walker was allowed to learn from the Master... thats about development.
Which in my opinion is what this year should be about, Dont get caught up in the scoreboard too much
Author:  BlueMark [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
I agree with you, Mark. Seeing the kids try hard, but fall short is far more positive to me than seeing us play in a way which would ensure losing.

It would appear now to me that we are well below the class of most senior AFL teams.

Bring on 2006!


Yeah its not all gloom and doom, never has been. Just gotta keep encouring the team to play the best that they can, all the time. Don't hammer the younger group for making mistakes, let em make them and then make sure they learn from them. Footy is all about gaining experience and the more effort that you put in the quicker you develop. If they can snatch a win then go for it. It gives them confidence that they indeed play the game at the highest level.

At the end of the year go the draft and pick kids who want to learn and improve. Bring them into a culture that expects every player to play to thier best all the time, but allows for mistakes to be made. It is the basis that great teams are founded.
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Look if you drop Lance and bring in Bryan (not as a ruckman but maybe as a forward tall pocket... and you drop Campo and let Simmo do what Campo does.. run around all unnacountable and collect cheap kicks.. have 3 in the backline in one minute not doing anything with them,.. missing Walker and then allowing Walker to get all the crap for turning it over...
(Love to know how much contested ball Campo got.. and who the hell was Campo on anyway????????

MArk i know youre an esteemed scholar of the game so maybe you can tell me who Campo was actually on????
We would then have a bunch of guys trying and wanting to win and not blokes in the side because of their name.

then we can get the picks we NEED.... and go forward without all the baggage thats being dragging us down .
then you can create the right culture going forwards.
Author:  Jarusa [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 
What if we play the kids and are on 6 or 7 wins on merit by the end of the year?

Will that delay the next premiership by 1 more year, 5, 10??

If we win 6 or 7 games will you be upset that we did not 'genuinly' tank?
Author:  BlueMark [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Just wonder who the team would rather be coached by.

'You are crap and I am going the get rid of you at seasons end."

Or

'I am going to give you every chance to be the best that you can be.'


I have been saying all year that our second tier has been lacking, even said it last year.

BUT developing a 'winning' culture doesn't just happen with a few low draft picks but it is an ongoing process that must be instilled into each and every player and offical associated with the team. We have a oppotunity to instill that culture into the team for the remainder of the season, the drafts picks should then be the icing on the cake.
Author:  BlueMark [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Jarusa wrote:
What if we play the kids and are on 6 or 7 wins on merit by the end of the year?

Will that delay the next premiership by 1 more year, 5, 10??

If we win 6 or 7 games will you be upset that we did not 'genuinly' tank?


It will be Campo's fault for actually getting a kick.

BTW Campos game yesterday was brilliant despite what others say.
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Jarusa wrote:
What if we play the kids and are on 6 or 7 wins on merit by the end of the year?

Will that delay the next premiership by 1 more year, 5, 10??

If we win 6 or 7 games will you be upset that we did not 'genuinly' tank?


Playing kids isnt tanking... see Mark and yourself Jarusa twist my words.
Playing the kids gives you every opportunity to take advantage of the draw and at the same time helps their development.
They wont win too many games because theyre too slight.. (see Simpson) and theyre inexperienced...

If we dont get the picks bad luck... but at least we wernt playing hacks just to win meaningless games to win our way to mediocrity.

I never said playters shouldnt try.. Players try to try becvause at the end of the year theyre not on the list.
But you can have kids trying.. ereadicate the baggage thats being weighing us down ... and youll get the picks to add even more prized talent to the little we have.
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:42 am ]
Post subject: 
BlueMark wrote:
Jarusa wrote:
What if we play the kids and are on 6 or 7 wins on merit by the end of the year?

Will that delay the next premiership by 1 more year, 5, 10??

If we win 6 or 7 games will you be upset that we did not 'genuinly' tank?


It will be Campo's fault for actually getting a kick.

BTW Campos game yesterday was brilliant despite what others say.


Just let me know who he was on Mark... and how many contested kicks he got.

Plus i loved his piss farting around in the backline accumulating stats and putting Walker under the pump...

Also if you remember around 12 minutes into the first quarter he asked for the ball at the half back flank and when he got it had noone to kick it to.The bloke is obsessed with getting cheap kicks and not being effective...

Anyone who has the video go and have a look at it and just see what im talking about.

Campo = Downhill skiier/ cheat
The worst thing with that is Campo actually thinks in his own mind he is doing a good job....hes actually talked himself into believing that the nothing stuff he does out there is vital to the team....

He just isnt rolling up his sleeves...
Author:  verbs [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
What he means is drop Camporeale and Whitnall. What else could "playing the kids" mean? We only have 12 listed players age of 25 or over, which inlcudes Bowyer, Chambers and Longmuir. It's impossible not to play the kids every week. We don't have any choice in the matter.
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Synbad wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Jarusa wrote:
What if we play the kids and are on 6 or 7 wins on merit by the end of the year?

Will that delay the next premiership by 1 more year, 5, 10??

If we win 6 or 7 games will you be upset that we did not 'genuinly' tank?


It will be Campo's fault for actually getting a kick.

BTW Campos game yesterday was brilliant despite what others say.


Just let me know who he was on Mark... and how many contested kicks he got.

Plus i loved his piss farting around in the backline accumulating stats and putting Walker under the pump...

Also if you remember around 12 minutes into the first quarter he asked for the ball at the half back flank and when he got it had noone to kick it to.The bloke is obsessed with getting cheap kicks and not being effective...

Anyone who has the video go and have a look at it and just see what im talking about.

Campo = Downhill skiier/ cheat
The worst thing with that is Campo actually thinks in his own mind he is doing a good job....hes actually talked himself into believing that the nothing stuff he does out there is vital to the team....

He just isnt rolling up his sleeves...


Agree totally (except maybe the cheat bit)

I think I saw Campo go into a contest a total of ONE time.

Campo's new name should be UCM - Uncontested Mark.

Admittedly his disposal was better than it has been lately, but so many of his handballs were nothing more than hospital passes so he could avoid doing the hard stuff.
Author:  BlueMark [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Campo 27 possession 6 tackles seems that he was in the thick of it.
had 2 clangers

Some are never satisfied.
Author:  BlueMark [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Synbad accusing others of twisting his words, from the mastro himself.
Author:  Shakin77 [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:54 am ]
Post subject: 
You are kidding if you didn't think Campo was good yesterday Synbad.

(Is Campo sleeping with your wife?)
Author:  dannyboy [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:54 am ]
Post subject: 
''f we dont get the picks bad luck... but at least we wernt playing hacks just to win meaningless games to win our way to mediocrity.'

ahh now i get it Synbad, sometimes you are your own worst enemy - see when you say things like 'losers wins and winners are losers stuff, you just sound like you want to lose - period. But this, this I agree with, this is different. if you are gunna be shit, then at least be shit that's developing rasther than shit that is stagnant. Now I am not saying we should dump all those blokes but I at least now understand you intent and frustration.

Simmo for Campo - no because I actually hope we can get some weird kind of swapsie thing happening with campo.

Setanata for lance - well for me yes, but I know its not going to happen.

Stick Kouta at CHB and let the kids go into the centre - has merits but will not happen.

But Synbad I understand and wouldn't be at all disappointed if it happened.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Mon May 30, 2005 10:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Campo aside, I reckon we're closer to agreeing on this than we realise.

Everyone agree's we should play the kids and that they will develop the more time they get.

Everyone would like as many draft picks as we can get.

We just don't agree on the benefits of winning in the development of the players we have now Vs the benefit of losing now to gain a PP.
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 30, 2005 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 
verbs wrote:
What he means is drop Camporeale and Whitnall. What else could "playing the kids" mean? We only have 12 listed players age of 25 or over, which inlcudes Bowyer, Chambers and Longmuir. It's impossible not to play the kids every week. We don't have any choice in the matter.

Oh here comes verbs.....
Id play Bowyer before i play Campo.... even if his disposal is crap.. you know why????
cos Bowyer tries and is more of a kid than Campo who is 30 .. a cheat and is caught up in a terrible mindset of cheating.

The commentators love him... because they dont see him enough to see what he does.
Id rather give the nothing role to Simpson and have him gain some confidence and make Campo play in a set position where he has to be accountable ..
At the moment Campo has the cheats role..

He is no Luke Hodge...
Page 1 of 5 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/