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 Post subject: I don't understand....
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:08 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Carlton.
I don't understand Carlton.
Friday night I watched a team take a game on. I watched a team take chances, play on. They were hungry, they seemed excited about their football. They hunted their opposition. Chased, pressured, attacked. And we won. We knocked off the team who has dominated this comp for the past 3 years. Yes, they were undermanned, but so were we, missing Waite (top 3 BnF before injury), Jamison, and even the replacement backman in Austin pulling out. We have played this way in other games this year and had similarly satisfying results.

Why then, in various games throughout the season, have we played the complete opposite? What I am talking about involves 2 aspects of the game.
1. Offensively, we took the game on on friday. We ran. We took risks. Sometimes they payed off, sometimes they didn't. But we played on and linke up and attacked their zone. Compare this to the game against Collingwood, Essendon*, among others where we simply had zero run out of defence. We have been so slow bringing it out, chipping it around sideways before booting it long to a 50/50. i just don't understand why, after for example the saints game, and the success we had playing on and running, this hasn't continued to happen. I would rather see us lose taking the game than lose playing it safe. I think in the end I put this down to expectation. I think the games where we go in as underdogs, our players feel the freedom to take the game on, as we have nothing to lose. But the games where we are heavy favourites, unless we have a commanding lead, we seem to have a fear of failure. We go into our shell, everyone is too afraid of stuffing up, because the expectation is that we should win. And the chip chip chip begins. I think our players need to get it into their head that we play better when we take the game on, so just do it. FFS do it.

2. Now this is the one I really REALLY don't get. And it involves chasing, pressure, intensity. Last night, and in other games we have played well in this year, we attacked the ball carrier. Hunted him. Pressured, hassled, rushed the opposition. It leads to mistakes. Everyone knows this. I cannot work out for the life of me why in the hell, in the Collingwood game in particular, we seemed to allow them to run it up the ground. Now its obviously a zoning tactic thats happening, but it was almost funny to watch. The amount of times I saw Collingwood players run the ball out of the 50 with no pressure whatsoever was astonishing. I witnessed our players, 5 metres in front of the ball carrier, actually run in the same direction, basically running away from the ball carrier. I dont care what you say about the zone, there always has to be some form of just pressure the bloody ball carrier. priority 1 should always be the guy. Even if you don't tackle him, pressure him. Rush him. That's how mistakes are made and tunovers happen.

So please carlton, from now on
*Take the game on. Play on, run, link up. Bring other players into the game. Just like we did on Friday.
*Attack them when they have the ball. Be relentless

That is all I ask. If we lose trying these things, I don't mind, but we will lose a lot less than we win.

End Rant

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:20 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 11:58 pm
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Good post! Some might bag you for not appreciating how wonderful our year has been, but the fact is we've been flat, directionless and tentative for most of the last 2 months. Friday night we had aggressive tactics and an aggressive attitude, and had a fantastic win. Now they have a template for success, something they can build on. There's still plenty of room for improvement.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:08 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:29 pm
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You can't forget there are two teams out there, and it's not as if we can just play the way we want to every week.

Geelong allowed the game to be relatively open. They backed themselves and ran forward, and didn't turn it into a grinding contest-fest. When teams do that, we often play very well. Port Adelaide will do that next week and if they do, we'll win.

But when teams decide to close it down, we often struggle.

From where I sit, to be more consistent we either need to learn to play both styles effectively, or get so freaking good at our current style, that no-one can negate it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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JohnM wrote:
You can't forget there are two teams out there, and it's not as if we can just play the way we want to every week.

Geelong allowed the game to be relatively open. They backed themselves and ran forward, and didn't turn it into a grinding contest-fest. When teams do that, we often play very well. Port Adelaide will do that next week and if they do, we'll win.

But when teams decide to close it down, we often struggle.

From where I sit, to be more consistent we either need to learn to play both styles effectively, or get so freaking good at our current style, that no-one can negate it.


I vote for the freakin' good style.

Cos think about it...it's freakin' good...and we'd be freakin' good at it.

Sound good? freakin'

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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It's certainly a valid question, and I think rightly many of us are frustrated at this see-saw effect. Some blame Ratts, but I think its the players.

Fev mentioned on TAC Future Stars today that mentally they do approach games against top opposition differently than teams they're expected to beat. THIS NEEDS TO STOP!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Young teams sometimes need a spark ( :wink: ) to get going again after playing without much passion for a few weeks.

Fev also mentioned how we do well against teams that go one on one.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:24 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I also think that when teams play against Geelong, they lift because teams respect them.

We have the same problem, because teams respect Judd and Fev (and a few others) I think teams lift when they are playing the blues too.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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DIAMOTISM wrote:
I also think that when teams play against Geelong, they lift because teams respect them.

We have the same problem, because teams respect Judd and Fev (and a few others) I think teams lift when they are playing the blues too.

Which is what shits me when we get done by Essenscum. If the players showed half the hatred and desire to inflict pain on them as many supporters do, we'd smash them. When they come to play us, they want to kill us, but our boys seem happy to just cruise through as if they were just another team we're supposed to be better than.

Yet when we come up against the top sides like the Aints and Cats, we're the ones wanting to do the killing.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:36 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2044
jake_h03 wrote:
Carlton.
I don't understand Carlton.
Friday night I watched a team take a game on. I watched a team take chances, play on. They were hungry, they seemed excited about their football. They hunted their opposition. Chased, pressured, attacked. And we won. We knocked off the team who has dominated this comp for the past 3 years. Yes, they were undermanned, but so were we, missing Waite (top 3 BnF before injury), Jamison, and even the replacement backman in Austin pulling out. We have played this way in other games this year and had similarly satisfying results.

Why then, in various games throughout the season, have we played the complete opposite? What I am talking about involves 2 aspects of the game.
1. Offensively, we took the game on on friday. We ran. We took risks. Sometimes they payed off, sometimes they didn't. But we played on and linke up and attacked their zone. Compare this to the game against Collingwood, Essendon*, among others where we simply had zero run out of defence. We have been so slow bringing it out, chipping it around sideways before booting it long to a 50/50. i just don't understand why, after for example the saints game, and the success we had playing on and running, this hasn't continued to happen. I would rather see us lose taking the game than lose playing it safe. I think in the end I put this down to expectation. I think the games where we go in as underdogs, our players feel the freedom to take the game on, as we have nothing to lose. But the games where we are heavy favourites, unless we have a commanding lead, we seem to have a fear of failure. We go into our shell, everyone is too afraid of stuffing up, because the expectation is that we should win. And the chip chip chip begins. I think our players need to get it into their head that we play better when we take the game on, so just do it. FFS do it.

2. Now this is the one I really REALLY don't get. And it involves chasing, pressure, intensity. Last night, and in other games we have played well in this year, we attacked the ball carrier. Hunted him. Pressured, hassled, rushed the opposition. It leads to mistakes. Everyone knows this. I cannot work out for the life of me why in the hell, in the Collingwood game in particular, we seemed to allow them to run it up the ground. Now its obviously a zoning tactic thats happening, but it was almost funny to watch. The amount of times I saw Collingwood players run the ball out of the 50 with no pressure whatsoever was astonishing. I witnessed our players, 5 metres in front of the ball carrier, actually run in the same direction, basically running away from the ball carrier. I dont care what you say about the zone, there always has to be some form of just pressure the bloody ball carrier. priority 1 should always be the guy. Even if you don't tackle him, pressure him. Rush him. That's how mistakes are made and tunovers happen.

So please carlton, from now on
*Take the game on. Play on, run, link up. Bring other players into the game. Just like we did on Friday.
*Attack them when they have the ball. Be relentless

That is all I ask. If we lose trying these things, I don't mind, but we will lose a lot less than we win.

End Rant


Two very simple answers to our ability to develop an attacking style (Hadley & Ohailpin). One guy wins the in and under ball the other enables us to have the confidence to run through the middle and hit up a target. Some of our selections earlier in the seasons were a disgrace


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:03 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4426
jake_h03 wrote:
Carlton.
I don't understand Carlton.
Friday night I watched a team take a game on. I watched a team take chances, play on. They were hungry, they seemed excited about their football. They hunted their opposition. Chased, pressured, attacked. And we won. We knocked off the team who has dominated this comp for the past 3 years. Yes, they were undermanned, but so were we, missing Waite (top 3 BnF before injury), Jamison, and even the replacement backman in Austin pulling out. We have played this way in other games this year and had similarly satisfying results.

Why then, in various games throughout the season, have we played the complete opposite? What I am talking about involves 2 aspects of the game.
1. Offensively, we took the game on on friday. We ran. We took risks. Sometimes they payed off, sometimes they didn't. But we played on and linke up and attacked their zone. Compare this to the game against Collingwood, Essendon*, among others where we simply had zero run out of defence. We have been so slow bringing it out, chipping it around sideways before booting it long to a 50/50. i just don't understand why, after for example the saints game, and the success we had playing on and running, this hasn't continued to happen. I would rather see us lose taking the game than lose playing it safe. I think in the end I put this down to expectation. I think the games where we go in as underdogs, our players feel the freedom to take the game on, as we have nothing to lose. But the games where we are heavy favourites, unless we have a commanding lead, we seem to have a fear of failure. We go into our shell, everyone is too afraid of stuffing up, because the expectation is that we should win. And the chip chip chip begins. I think our players need to get it into their head that we play better when we take the game on, so just do it. FFS do it.

2. Now this is the one I really REALLY don't get. And it involves chasing, pressure, intensity. Last night, and in other games we have played well in this year, we attacked the ball carrier. Hunted him. Pressured, hassled, rushed the opposition. It leads to mistakes. Everyone knows this. I cannot work out for the life of me why in the hell, in the Collingwood game in particular, we seemed to allow them to run it up the ground. Now its obviously a zoning tactic thats happening, but it was almost funny to watch. The amount of times I saw Collingwood players run the ball out of the 50 with no pressure whatsoever was astonishing. I witnessed our players, 5 metres in front of the ball carrier, actually run in the same direction, basically running away from the ball carrier. I dont care what you say about the zone, there always has to be some form of just pressure the bloody ball carrier. priority 1 should always be the guy. Even if you don't tackle him, pressure him. Rush him. That's how mistakes are made and tunovers happen.

So please carlton, from now on
*Take the game on. Play on, run, link up. Bring other players into the game. Just like we did on Friday.
*Attack them when they have the ball. Be relentless

That is all I ask. If we lose trying these things, I don't mind, but we will lose a lot less than we win.

End Rant


We implemented the George Constanza 'opposite theory' and what do you know it worked wonderfully... :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:07 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Effes wrote:
Young teams sometimes need a spark ( :wink: ) to get going again after playing without much passion for a few weeks.

Fev also mentioned how we do well against teams that go one on one.


If our boys need a spark when they play the scum or the filth then these young kids of ours need to be watching some old replays... :cool:

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"Truth, for the tyrants, is the most terrible and cruel of all bindings; it is like an incandescent iron falling across their chests. And it is even more agonizing than hot iron, for that only burns the flesh, while truth burns its way into the soul"     — Lauro Aguirre


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