Like a lot of regular posters on here, I have just about had a gutful of the unintelligent babble that some of the threads degenerate into. The character assinations are becoming an art form as you guys constantly try to outdo each other. Some of you obviously got tipped on your head in the sandpit and haven't stopped spitting the dummy since. FFS.. enough is enough!! It is time that we started working together for the Navy Blue community instead of resorting to my sausage is bigger/longer/thicker than yours!! We are starting to sound like Richmond or Aints supporters. Thats my two bobs worth.

After travelling to Melbourne for the finale at Princes Park, it dawned on me that we are a different club now thanks to many factors that we don't need to elaborate on, however I still have nightmares about Judas, JE, Black Friday, Piss Poor Recruiting, Alienation of club legends, Unwillingness to blood the kids on the list, inflexible Game Plans, Players not playing for the jumper, tanking etc. What has been correct and what has been wrong? Who the flower knows! I'm just a passionate supporter of over 40 years who has seen it all including 8 Premierships. Some footy supporters would kill for that. As I said I don't know the solution to the dilemma we are faced with at the moment, but I sure as hell don't like it. One thing that I will never resort to is abandoning the club that I love. I have followed the Blues through thick and thin and there has been some ordinary times since 1965, particularly 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005.

With that off my chest I thought that I would do some serious research over the weekend and try and have an objective look at where we are really at. Unfortunately the hard decisions need to be made with the list if we are to become a power again. This is a factual approach to exactly where we are at. From my research on the list since DP this is what I came up with. I hope it is correct, but I'm sure one of you flashers will find a glitch!! On that basis I will be a total tool. LOL


2003 List Traded/Retired/Delisted Prior to 2004 Season

Matty Allan
Simon Beaumont
Andrew Eccles
Simon Fletcher
Glen Freeborn
Adrian Hickmott
Michael Mansfield
Glenn Manton
Mick Martyn
Adam Mathews
Andrew McKay
Mark McKenzie
Corey McKernan
Andrew Merrington
Justin Murphy
Sean O’Keefe
Jim Plunkett
Lindsay Smith
Michael Stinear
Brett Ratten
Tom Hedge


2003 List Traded/Retired/Delisted Prior to 2005 Season

Blake Campbell
Callan Beasy
Anthony Franchina
Cameron Croad
Jonathon McCormick
Murray Boyd
Darren Hulme


2003 List to be Traded/Retired/Delisted Prior to 2006 Season

Lance Whitnall
Simon Wiggins
Justin Davies
Trent Sporn
Ian Prendergast
Karl Norman


2004 List Additions to be Traded/Retired/Delisted Prior to 2006 Season

Jordon Bannister
Glen Bowyer
Brett Johnson
Cory McGrath
Digby Morrell
Sam Pleming
Heath Scotland


2005 List Additions to be Traded/Retired/Delisted Prior to 2006 Season

Daniel Batson
Callum Chambers
Troy Longmuir


Retain for 2006 from 2003 List

Anthony Koutoufides
Scott Camporeale
Brendan Fevola
Brad Fisher
Barnaby French
Ryan Houlihan
Matthew Lappin
Luke Livingston
Kade Simpson
Bret Thornton
Jarrad Waite


Retain for 2006 from 2004 List Additions

Adam Bentick
Andrew Carrazzo
Adrian De Luca
Nick Stevens
David Teague
Andrew Walker
Setanta O’hAilpin


Retain for 2006 from 2005 List Additions

Nick Becker
Eddie Betts
Luke Blackwell
Adam Hartlett
Aisake O’hAilpin
Anthony Raso
Jordan Russell
Jesse Smith
Chris Bryan

That leaves 27 remaining in my view. We need to pick up 17 in the Trading Period 3 /National 6 /Pre Season 2 /Rookie Drafts 6. Thoughts my brethren??

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

Add for 2006
Shannon Hurn
Mitch Clark

I wouldn't worry too much about people mouthing off at each other in here BB. Most of those flinging the mud have been around the boards a long time and know each other in the non-cyber world also (I was going to call it the real world but I'm afraid Mark and Surrey have never been there ).

You're right, it's mainly unintelligent, there are plenty of character assassinations and a good deal of dummy spitting, but it does raise the question - what exactly did you expect when you entered a footy chat site...?

As long as you have your feet well and truly planted on earth GWS, that's all that counts.

love how you had a crack about the character assassinations then said we'd been dropped on our head in the sandpit....

The analysis was a little hard to follow, but can't fault you on it being thorough, great work!!

17 changes to the list is a lot again assuming we elevate all our rookies. Thats probably the thing that stood out for me. I think a few of the guys you've put off the list at the end of this year will survive (Wiggins Davies Sporn Norman McGrath Morrell Scotland Chambers) which would bring it down to a more realistic 9 changes, but thats really another argument.

I think its a great post, congratulations!!

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

i think heath scotland should stay.....
if he has to go he should be traded, not delisted....he would be helpful in a deal securing a big name...i.e luke power, Justin Longmuir, Justin Kositshke or Nick Dal Santo...if we used him and a first or second rounder we would be bound to get a big name...

_________________
R A D I C A L B R O T H E R S

Inspired by the One-Minute Sculptures of Erwin Wurm

"All in all is all we are..."

Danke Brad. Just reread my post. Not only did I call the kettle black I can't spell either. Assinations...hmmmm. When it comes to character assassinations, I can hold my own as good as any on here. My point was that the bun fighting has to stop. Not necessarily group hugs, but time for some tolerance. My views about the list are pretty simple: Drastic times require drastic measures. Love some of these kids, but we just ain't gunna win any flags by lovey doveys!

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

It's now official club policy that we don't trade 1st or 2nd round picks - board level decision.

Aside from that, if he can't cut it with us he won't pull much as a trade.

You cannot turn over another 17 at the end of this year.

You cannot pick up 17 youngsters in the draft and you cannot pick up even half that many players with existing experience without shuffling the deck-chairs on the Titanic.

At most you can turn over half this many. You are going to have to ride out the bunps for a few years yet.

As posted elsewhere the root of Carlton's list problem is Parkin's abominable recruiting performance in the late 90s, you have SFA Carlton-grown talent in the 23-28 yo age group. Denis has had to get spak-filler in to plug the holes.

This has been exacerbated by the draconian draft penalties which mean you have only a reasonable batch of 18-22yo instead a ball-tearing batch including Goddard, Wells and McLean.

It's going to take multi-years to fix, but it is fixable. The best thing you can do is trade what you have for early picks -- Campo, Lance and Lappin must go.

Hey 55,
Pago moved 17 in 2003! If you reread my post you will see that I am talking about trading 3, Pickling up 6 in National Draft, 2 in the PreSeason and 6 in the Rookie Draft. What is wrong with those figures?

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

Bet i spelt it wrong too...anyway, move on from that and talk about the list. Would you consider keeping any of the players I mentioned?

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

TBB,

Seeing that I am really DP under the guise of some plonker in Brisbane (LOL), I can chop the list up cause I got a contract that says so, I got a MC and a bunch of old players from other clubs for coaches that also say so and we got 600,000 supporters that also say so, so what am I gunna do? Furked if I know!!

Seriously though you are probably right, they won't chop so many and probably not all of these but they friggin well should. Davies and Sporn would be my favourites to survive. Will be very interesting!!

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

Glad you went with those two at least. Sporn is the concern as he appears to be going backwards. Of teh players I listed I see them all surviving to be honest

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Sporn was signed up for 2 years at end of last year.

Here's why I think it's unrealistic to turn over 17 more players:

In your model 2006 you will have too many players ( 16/38 ) who have never or hardly ever played (plus 6 new rookies)

- 6 new listed players from this year
Betts, Blackwell, Bryan, Hartlett, Raso, Russell

- 4 promoted rookies (if you're gonna take 6 new rookies)
2 x O'H, Becker, J.D.Smith

- 6 new players from the 2005 National draft

You just could not go into the 2006 season with such a raw list.

Plus you assume you are going to trade in 3 players by trading out:
Lance Whitnall, Simon Wiggins. Justin Davies, Trent Sporn, Ian Prendergast, Karl Norman, Jordon Bannister, Glen Bowyer, Brett Johnson,
Cory McGrath, Digby Morrell, Sam Pleming, Heath Scotland,
Daniel Batson, Callum Chambers, Troy Longmuir

Only Lance and Karl have any trade currency in this list and they will only deliver similar quality, alternatively you have to trade picks (presumably late ones) which will also deliver dubious quality. This is just shuffling the deckchairs.

I can see:

delist
bannister
bowyer
johnson
prender
Clarke

Plus

Campo retiring
Lance being traded

I know this won't be a popular sentiment but I'd be tempted to trade Lappin simply because I think his form is starting to taper off and he's our only player besides Lance who you'd probably get something for. He will be 29 next year but might be the icing on the cake for a top eight side.

That's 8. A few of the rookies might be turned over as well, they usually are. Norman can probably count himself lucky. Wiggo and Sporn will need to take it up to the next level next year like Livo has.

I don't think you could prune much more that that next season.

You wont geta nything for Lappin hes 29.. so he will be 30.. what you get wont be worth it.
Campo is the same.. noone will touch him and it wont be worth trading him .. you just give him a reduced contract.
Lance should command a second rounder at best.. maybe late first.. (doubtful)
Lance would be ok with a team like Geelong that has a couple of talls and they control the midfield and move the ball in to their forward line regularly.. the defence then gets stretched so L:ance can find more room.

He isnt worth that much Surrey.. no matter what you think...
You and your trippy theories that Pagan has killed of Lance..
If you sit on the top of the MCG and watch it the game doesnt look so fast.. go down to the middle tier. its abit faster...move to the fence its faster again.. go out into the middle of the ground.. and the game is lightning quick for a guy who just cant get around the park physically.

How you can think Denis killed off Lance and hes this absolute superstar is beyond me.. Lance is a Jarrod Molloy.. in my opinion washed up by 27/28
the quicker you get rid of him the more you will salvage going forwards..
Were not in a position for sentiment.. or to remember the days when Lance was a gun FIVE years ago...

We need to turn the ship around and do it quick..

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

As frustrated as i am with Campo, i'd rather see him finish his career with Carlton. His got what, 1 or 2 MAX 3 seasons left in him. A reduced contract should see him play out his days at Carlton and go down in history like the legend he is.

Besides, i don't think too many claubs would want him.

Delists For Me:

'Certainties'
Clarke
Prendagast
Johnson
DeLuca
Bowyer
Wiggens


'Possibles'
Bannister
Norman
Sporn

I like Morrell, and after 3 or 4 weeks in the seniors i think most people will understand Pagan's resoning behing picking him up!

Davies has all the skills needed to play AFL. He just needs some faith from his coach. It's amazing what type of game Barry Mitchell can get out of him!

Campo a legend? hhmmm

Based on feedback from posters on 3 different Carlton sites, it appears that a couple of players that I believed would be either retired, traded or de-listed may just be retained for 2006. Whilst I can’t divulge the source, I got told chapter and verse today that Justin Davies will be given more time unless he really screws up the rest of this year. Apparently they also have faith in Callum Chambers when injury free. If this is accurate then that would bring my list to 29. Obviously there will be others retained and maybe some I reckon will be retained, will be chopped. I have put the list together from the different years lists and added Juzza and Cal. As far as how we would pick up 15 players for 2006, I reckon it may work out this way:

2006 List
Nick Becker
Adam Bentick
Eddie Betts
Luke Blackwell
Chris Bryan
Scott Camporeale
Andrew Carrazzo
Callum Chambers
Justin Davies
Adrian De Luca
Brendan Fevola
Brad Fisher
Barnaby French
Adam Hartlett
Ryan Houlihan
Anthony Koutoufides
Matthew Lappin
Luke Livingston
Setanta O’hAilpin
Anthony Raso
Kade Simpson
Jordan Russell
Jesse Smith
Nick Stevens
David Teague
Bret Thornton
Jarrad Waite
Andrew Walker
Aisake O’hAilpin

Carlos (Upgrade)
Boom Boom (Upgrade)
Jesse (Upgrade)
Aisake (Rookie)Leaving room for 5 Rookies.

It is not unreasonable to expect that we could pick up at least 2 players from other clubs in the trade period. If this means a couple of 2 for 1 deals, then so be it. The possible bait would be from:

Lance Whitnall
Simon Wiggins
Trent Sporn
Ian Prendergast
Karl Norman
Jordon Bannister
Glen Bowyer
Brett Johnson
Cory McGrath
Digby Morrell
Sam Pleming
Heath Scotland
Daniel Batson
Troy Longmuir

Surely we will have up to 6 picks in the National Draft (hopefully 4 in the top 20 and 2 in the top 6)

We will get at least 1 un-contracted player in the Pre Season Draft, maybe 2.
As you can see up to 15 new players on the list. Don’t be surprised.

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!