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We won't be a good side until we kick properly
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Author:  Bambi Russell [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  We won't be a good side until we kick properly
I know it is very easy to take pot shots after a loss, particularly such a disappointing performace against a team that we all hate, so I'm hoping that this comes across as just a black-and-white (no pun intended) statistical argument, but we will never be a top flight side until we can kick the ball properly. Sure we have other deficiencies, but I see this as our most glaring one. Part of the problem is definitely skill-based (not being able to execute properly) but just as much is decision based (either picking the wrong options, or stuffing around with too much handball trying to be Geelong and gettting ourselves under pressure and turning it over by foot as a result). I've had a look at the numbers, and unfortunately as the season draws on, we are getting found out in this area more and more.

R1 v Rich: 69% kicking efficiency = Won by 83
R2 v BL: 80% KE% = Won by 19
R3 v Ess: 74% KE% = Loss by 4
R4 v Syd: 69% KE% = Loss by 17
R5 v WB: 79% KE% = Won by 43
R6 v Haw: 67% KE% = Loss by 4
R7 v Freo: 64% KE% = Loss by 7
R8 v Coll: 72% KE% = Won by 51
R9 v Adel: 59% KE% = Loss by 44
R10 v WCE: 72% KE% = Won by 41
R11 v BL: 68% KE% = Won by 6
R12 v StK: 57% KE% = Loss by 9
R13 v Ess: 58% KE% = Loss by 69
R14 v Freo: 68% KE% = Won by 15
R15 v Rich: 57% KE% = Won by 20
R16 v Syd: 70% KE% = Won by 61
R17 v Coll: 59% KE% = Loss by 54

What this shows is that if we kick the ball at under 65% efficiency then we are going to lose (round 15 excepted). The more glaring issue is that since the Adelaide game, we have had a kicking efficiency of under 60% five times which IIRC from a graphic on One Week at A Time after the Essendon* game represents 5 of our 7 lowest kicking efficiency results.

The main offenders as I see it this year(I have left out young blokes like Yarran, Robinson, Garlett etc. because they are still learning the caper):

Fevola - 53% KE% - Yes he is a great kick normally, this season he has had problems for whatever reason
Fisher - 56% KE% - Has never been able to kick the ball. Not great when you are a forward...
Browne - 47% KE% - Hard as nails, lacks skill.
Carrazzo - 63% KE% - Has kicked some important goals in recent weeks, field kicking limited.
Stevens- 65% KE% - Supposedly good ball user, stats say otherwise.
Houlihan - 66% KE% - See Stevens
Armfield - 66% KE% - Runs hard, should never kick the ball.
Grigg - 67% KE - Like him as a player, but draft reports said that he could find the footy in U18's but couldn't use it. Proven to be correct so far.
Johnson - 67% KE% - Recruited for his kicking. Hmmmm......

Other Notables:

Bentley - 57% KE - Clearly not up to it
Gibbs - 67% KE - Loathe to pot this bloke because he is my favourite, but leads the team in clanger kicks this year with 21.
Judd - 67% KE - Can be excused a bit because the team's bailout position is "give it to Judd" when we have got ourselves in deep trouble. 2nd for clanger kicks with 18 though.
Simpson - 68% KE% - When on song is a good kick, but is very one sided which results in him kicking a lot of floaters under pressure and turning it over.

I know that this is a very stats heavy and long winded post. I'm surprised if anyone has read this far. Just wanted to make sure that I was thorough and am trying very hard to be objective and not fly off into a rage after another disappointing loss. Forgive me, I'm new to posting :oops:
Author:  mikkey [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Been bored tonight? :wink:
Author:  Bambi Russell [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Frustrated would some it up more.
Was ready to post this after the Essendon* game, but decided to go down the route of "not thinking about footy for a week" instead.
Author:  Synbad [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Not going to kick the ball properly.. till you have confidence in what youre doing out there...

confused mind confused result...
Author:  Lace Out [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Synbad wrote:
Not going to kick the ball properly.. till you have confidence in what youre doing out there...

confused mind confused result...



I agree......
Author:  dadadadada [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Synbad wrote:
Not going to kick the ball properly.. till you have confidence in what youre doing out there...

confused mind confused result...


makes it hard when you were never a good kick to start with

the same players had the same kicking flaws pre getting drafted ... Fisher, Carazzo, Grigg , Russell etc were nevr good kicks at under 18 level ... despite the amount of training they do at senior level the pressure they are under makes it even more difficult.
Author:  Abaddon [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Does this mean Andrew Walker doesn't come back in?
Author:  Synbad [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
dadadadada wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Not going to kick the ball properly.. till you have confidence in what youre doing out there...

confused mind confused result...


makes it hard when you were never a good kick to start with

the same players had the same kicking flaws pre getting drafted ... Fisher, Carazzo, Grigg , Russell etc were nevr good kicks at under 18 level ... despite the amount of training they do at senior level the pressure they are under makes it even more difficult.

You could say the same about half the Collingwood and StKilda teams...

But they do ok with what they have....
Author:  grrofunger [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
we wont be a good side until we play properly
Author:  Synbad [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
grrofunger wrote:
we wont be a good side until we play properly



until we know what were doing....
Author:  TenOutOfTen [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
It's been said but the kicking wasn't so much the issue as it was the lack of people getting in space to give the kicker options. Still poor.
Author:  Juddy&theKruezers [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
TenOutOfTen wrote:
It's been said but the kicking wasn't so much the issue as it was the lack of people getting in space to give the kicker options. Still poor.


No plan? Or lack of understanding of a plan? Either way we're buggered until the guys that run out there know to the last detail their role and what the hell each is doing out there.
Author:  dadadadada [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Synbad wrote:
dadadadada wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Not going to kick the ball properly.. till you have confidence in what youre doing out there...

confused mind confused result...


makes it hard when you were never a good kick to start with

the same players had the same kicking flaws pre getting drafted ... Fisher, Carazzo, Grigg , Russell etc were nevr good kicks at under 18 level ... despite the amount of training they do at senior level the pressure they are under makes it even more difficult.

You could say the same about half the Collingwood and StKilda teams...

But they do ok with what they have....


not true ... the foot skills of both those teams are better than ours across the board ... how many players get a regular game at Collingwood and St Kilda that can't kick and play in their forward line ? ... do you see their equivalent of their Fisher on their forward lines playing regularly. Do you see players on their forward line that regularly get a game and not even get a scoring shot like say Jordan Russell.

8 goals from turnovers ... very poor disposal skills
Author:  Synbad [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
dadadadada wrote:

not true ... the foot skills of both those teams are better than ours across the board ... how many players get a regular game at Collingwood and St Kilda that can't kick and play in their forward line ? ... do you see their equivalent of their Fisher on their forward lines playing regularly. Do you see players on their forward line that regularly get a game and not even get a scoring shot like say Jordan Russell.

8 goals from turnovers ... very poor disposal skills



You obviously havent been watching Blake Gwilt Jones Ball Gilbert Baker Gram etc kick footballs before this year...

Or Ben Johnston... OBrien Maxwell Dane Swann... and there are a afew there.....

If youre playing to a game structure and understand what you need to do your skills will just pick up....
If you have no clue... everything falls away..

Development and footy dept are struggling at Carlton....

Theyre about 4 years behind the good sides...

And there is no excuse for it..
Author:  17_will_be_the_sweetest [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Synbad wrote:
dadadadada wrote:

not true ... the foot skills of both those teams are better than ours across the board ... how many players get a regular game at Collingwood and St Kilda that can't kick and play in their forward line ? ... do you see their equivalent of their Fisher on their forward lines playing regularly. Do you see players on their forward line that regularly get a game and not even get a scoring shot like say Jordan Russell.

8 goals from turnovers ... very poor disposal skills



You obviously havent been watching Blake Gwilt Jones Ball Gilbert Baker Gram etc kick footballs before this year...

Or Ben Johnston... OBrien Maxwell Dane Swann... and there are a afew there.....

If youre playing to a game structure and understand what you need to do your skills will just pick up....
If you have no clue... everything falls away..

Development and footy dept are struggling at Carlton....

Theyre about 4 years behind the good sides...

And there is no excuse for it..

But if you look at Hawthorn in around 2005-2006 (didn't make finals) and St Kilda in 2002-2003 (didn't make finals), you'll find their young players still had high disposal efficiency. Even when they're sides were getting thumped. If a player can't kick it makes it difficult. We unfortunately have a lot of players on our list with kicking that is simply not up to AFL standard, neverw ill be, and I am amazed they were recruited in the first place.

Maxwell and O'brien have perfectly fine disposal skills. Swan doesn't and Johnson doesn't but they make up for it in other areas. How many of our players do? Your points about the St Kilda team are spot on. It's why St Kilda won't win a premiership. But find me players from geelong or hawthorn that can't kick. That's why they're the only real contenders.
Author:  Synbad [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
You obviously havent been watching those players when they got to their club....
Author:  Melvey [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
The boys lack belief

The boys lack confidence

................... who's coaching them?
Author:  dannyboy [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
Melvey wrote:
The boys lack belief

The boys lack confidence

................... who's coaching them?

apparently Scotland and Stevens want to coach them :grin:
Author:  Synbad [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
dannyboy.. it doesnt matter what stevens and scotland want to do....

what matters is whats going on?
why cant our players do basic stuff like kick to advantage?
why do they always have to kick for a mark with a looping hanging kick???

Why do we take so long to move the ball on?
Why arent their numbers to where the ball is ?










so many whys ........... and no answers......
Author:  dannyboy [ Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We won't be a good side until we kick properly
apart from the centre setup (and getting ahead of ourselves with hammer - who tried his guts out but is not ready for No 1 rucking duties yet) I think our biggest problem is the same old problem its that forward line. Santy injured doesn't help. Waite Injured Doesn't help. Tex injured doesn't help but its also about the setups with the players there.

Thing is forward lines are harder than anything else to fix up (its why the Roughhead/Franklin draft, the Reiwolt/Kosi draft were huge wins for those 2 clubs). We are desperate for a CHF who can take pack marks or lead up and then turn and kicking more than 30 meters and we need more dangerous at feet players than just eddie

and we need those we do have to play smarter

eg Kruise goes for a mark, does Fev wait down, no he goes also and so they we have no one down.

JR lead up gets ball tries to run forward, has no options but Fev out wide between 2/3 players and he moves to far (trying to better the odds) and must kick left foot - at least twice!

Simple things and hard things - at the moment we must get both of these areas fixed

but I aint too concerned - our backline withstood huge pressure last night - wasn't long ago that sort of pressure would have meant a 100 point belting

usually our midfield is strong - poor last night - shit happens

next phase is that forward line

God I hope Santy stands up

him with Kruise/Waite/Tex and others gives us flexibility - at the moment we have none.
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