TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future

Good post Bondi. I think O`Keefe can be the driver we need off half back. In the Bullants games i`ve seen him play,his disposal is fantastic and is a solid body type . Just needs a good pre-season. Gibbs needs to be the player with the ball delivering to the forwards or scoring goals himself.

The midfield is A grade, but can we afford or do we have to reluctantly pinch Gibbs for the drivers role at HB as Healy suggest? No doubt we need someone in the future to develop in that spot, but I still believe Scotto can play that role for a couple of years. Whoever it is, they must have great decision making and great disposal in their arsenal.

bondiblue wrote:

Great post bondi.

I still think we are a couple of very good mids short of a A grade midfield combo. We have the topliners, we just need a couple more to go through there, especially contested/in and under type mid.

We still dont have the mix right in terms of team set-up but Warnock coming in could significantly change this

Braddles on 3AW saying Stevens and Scotland have to meet certain criteria before being considered for the team.

The article is a mixed bag

the Charman suggestion is utterly bizarre :screwy:

I disagree about the "backseat driver" idea - certainly Stevens can't play like Hodge, either for marking or toughness. I'm all for improving our disposal and creativity off half back, but I'm not interested in inventing a spot for a player who's a liability in so many facets.

Let's move on. If we can get anything for Stevo in a trade let's take it, but if reports that his neck is degenerative are correct, let's come to an amicable settlement and thank him for his service.

Old man Charman is not the answer....sure it's a suggestion to acknowledge our current situation with Warnock, Jacobs, Waite and Walker on the sidelines...but he's not the answer.

Hammer is coming along just fine. 2009 is a development year with our sights on finals, but it's still a development year; just have a look at the age and experience of today's team (without veterans Scotland and Stevens).

Yesterday, over a few coldies, I was discussing what impact just Warnock and Walker will make to this team in the next few weeks; add Bower and Austin to that, and that is a serious injection of talent on every line.

With those inclusions (only Waite is written off for the rest of 09), Warnock is the heir apparent for the No 1 spot (watch this space) we can have Kreuzer on the FF line if Setanta can continue to grow in stature.

There's the forwardline with Fevola, Kreuzer and Setanta with Betts, Houla (and moreso in the future) Yarran, Robinson and Garlett. We can have Walker either forward (my preference) or back. Now that's a serious forwardline. Add a couple midfielders to the mix and watch out. Finally a multi pronged attack.

The midfield is A grade, but can we afford or do we have to reluctantly pinch Gibbs for the drivers role at HB as Healy suggest? No doubt we need someone in the future to develop in that spot, but I still believe Scotto can play that role for a couple of years. Whoever it is, they must have great decision making and great disposal in their arsenal.

Gibbs is an obvious one, perhaps Robbo, O'Keefe has the disposal but hasn't proven anything yet. Perhaps Russell can step up, Johnson has the kick (but that's about it). My gut feeling is that it's (from our current list) Walker or Grigg if we don't want it to be Gibbs, and if Scotto is on the outer with the MC because it's the future they are planning for.

We have the cattle imo, but they need to take the next step as with all kids, but I have confidence that with the next trade/ draft period, we can snag whatever it is we need...depth?

Add another preseason into the kids and Go Bluebaggers.

To be fair, I don't think you can blame the coaching staff entirely if a player isn't fit enough.

Author:	Effes [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:59 am ]
Post subject:	Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future While we do need some more class out of defence I don't think we can afford to drop Gibbs back there. The suggestion to consider Charman is ridiculous, and shows a very poor understanding of our list.

Author:	bondiblue [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Old man Charman is not the answer....sure it's a suggestion to acknowledge our current situation with Warnock, Jacobs, Waite and Walker on the sidelines...but he's not the answer. Hammer is coming along just fine. 2009 is a development year with our sights on finals, but it's still a development year; just have a look at the age and experience of today's team (without veterans Scotland and Stevens). Yesterday, over a few coldies, I was discussing what impact just Warnock and Walker will make to this team in the next few weeks; add Bower and Austin to that, and that is a serious injection of talent on every line. With those inclusions (only Waite is written off for the rest of 09), Warnock is the heir apparent for the No 1 spot (watch this space) we can have Kreuzer on the FF line if Setanta can continue to grow in stature. There's the forwardline with Fevola, Kreuzer and Setanta with Betts, Houla (and moreso in the future) Yarran, Robinson and Garlett. We can have Walker either forward (my preference) or back. Now that's a serious forwardline. Add a couple midfielders to the mix and watch out. Finally a multi pronged attack. The midfield is A grade, but can we afford or do we have to reluctantly pinch Gibbs for the drivers role at HB as Healy suggest? No doubt we need someone in the future to develop in that spot, but I still believe Scotto can play that role for a couple of years. Whoever it is, they must have great decision making and great disposal in their arsenal. Gibbs is an obvious one, perhaps Robbo, O'Keefe has the disposal but hasn't proven anything yet. Perhaps Russell can step up, Johnson has the kick (but that's about it). My gut feeling is that it's (from our current list) Walker or Grigg if we don't want it to be Gibbs, and if Scotto is on the outer with the MC because it's the future they are planning for. We have the cattle imo, but they need to take the next step as with all kids, but I have confidence that with the next trade/ draft period, we can snag whatever it is we need...depth? Add another preseason into the kids and Go Bluebaggers.

Author:	Princes Park Whistler [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Good post Bondi. I think O`Keefe can be the driver we need off half back. In the Bullants games i`ve seen him play,his disposal is fantastic and is a solid body type . Just needs a good pre-season. Gibbs needs to be the player with the ball delivering to the forwards or scoring goals himself.

Author:	bondiblue [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Princes Park Whistler wrote: Good post Bondi. I think O`Keefe can be the driver we need off half back. In the Bullants games i`ve seen him play,his disposal is fantastic and is a solid body type . Just needs a good pre-season. Gibbs needs to be the player with the ball delivering to the forwards or scoring goals himself. Cheers Whistler. I prefer Gibbs centre forward like he played last week...very damaging. If we have the ball moreso than the opposition (and we should with our midfield) then surely we would prefer our most damaging players damaging the opposition on the scoreboard where it counts.

Author:	marciblue [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
bondiblue wrote: The midfield is A grade, but can we afford or do we have to reluctantly pinch Gibbs for the drivers role at HB as Healy suggest? No doubt we need someone in the future to develop in that spot, but I still believe Scotto can play that role for a couple of years. Whoever it is, they must have great decision making and great disposal in their arsenal. Great post bondi. I still think we are a couple of very good mids short of a A grade midfield combo. We have the topliners, we just need a couple more to go through there, especially contested/in and under type mid. We still dont have the mix right in terms of team set-up but Warnock coming in could significantly change this

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Author:	Effes [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Braddles on 3AW saying Stevens and Scotland have to meet certain criteria before being considered for the team.

Author:	Koro [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
marciblue wrote: bondiblue wrote: The midfield is A grade, but can we afford or do we have to reluctantly pinch Gibbs for the drivers role at HB as Healy suggest? No doubt we need someone in the future to develop in that spot, but I still believe Scotto can play that role for a couple of years. Whoever it is, they must have great decision making and great disposal in their arsenal. Great post bondi. I still think we are a couple of very good mids short of a A grade midfield combo. We have the topliners, we just need a couple more to go through there, especially contested/in and under type mid. We still dont have the mix right in terms of team set-up but Warnock coming in could significantly change this I agree. We still need to bolster our mids as we need to add a bit of depth and need a good extractor. Hadley hasn't been able to fill this role for one reason or another. Maybe he will next year, or maybe Carrots can give it a go. AJ might be a chance. He certainly is quick enough. I'm loathe to put Gibbs back in the defensive half. Yes, he's be good there, but he'd be good almost anywhere and I think he is at his most damaging going forward of centre. Can't wait for 206 to start playing as I want to see how Kreuzer goes as a dedicated forward. I agree with Healy here as I think we will be what we need up next to Fev. He might go back to being a ruckman later but I hope he gets a proper go as a forward when our ruck stocks allow. Waite will probably go both forward and back.. Walker could go back but he was good up forward last year. So, for the back line and the Hodge type role: Scotland hopefully will work himself back into the team and should be great off the half back. Bower could be a chance as he loves taking the game on a going for a run. Finally, and this is a question as I haven't seen enough of him, could Yarran do this kind of role? I read that he's gone to the half back line for his footy education, could he make that position his own?

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
No more old ruckman...Warnock was recruited to provide the big body to help out Kruezer and we dont need a old broken down jalopy like Charman.....Healy has no idea and should check the sorry tale of experienced rucks we have recruited...last one being Ackland. Warnock, Kruezer, Hampson, Jacobs and Cloke is enough... Stevens can still play his part we just need to motivate and get him fit and I think the motivation is the key and I detect he and the coach dont see eye to eye on things and its up to Brett Ratten to show he has the skills to get the best out of Stevens....like Malthouse has with Didak who went off the rails but is now tearing it up...

Author:	Headplant [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Effes wrote: Braddles on 3AW saying Stevens and Scotland have to meet certain criteria before being considered for the team. Sounds appropriate, Essendon* game in particular showed a few issues. But the article is way off suggesting we need a Charman. We have 4 rucks on our list now (plus Cloke), and the 3 who have played for us so far all look promising.

Author:	JohnM [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Is Charman paying Gerard Healy to pump up his tyres in the media? Healy has form in that regard.

Author:	Lowey_47 [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Charman - either injured or suspended...

Author:	Megaman [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Have to recruit a ruckman every year, apparently

Author:	aramari [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
The article is a mixed bag the Charman suggestion is utterly bizarre I disagree about the "backseat driver" idea - certainly Stevens can't play like Hodge, either for marking or toughness. I'm all for improving our disposal and creativity off half back, but I'm not interested in inventing a spot for a player who's a liability in so many facets. Let's move on. If we can get anything for Stevo in a trade let's take it, but if reports that his neck is degenerative are correct, let's come to an amicable settlement and thank him for his service.

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
aramari wrote: The article is a mixed bag the Charman suggestion is utterly bizarre I disagree about the "backseat driver" idea - certainly Stevens can't play like Hodge, either for marking or toughness. I'm all for improving our disposal and creativity off half back, but I'm not interested in inventing a spot for a player who's a liability in so many facets. Let's move on. If we can get anything for Stevo in a trade let's take it, but if reports that his neck is degenerative are correct, let's come to an amicable settlement and thank him for his service. Would be a bonus if we could anything of value for him...

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Author:	jimmae [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Gibbs already spends half the game setting play up at CHB?

Author:	blue in the face [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
bondiblue wrote: Old man Charman is not the answer....sure it's a suggestion to acknowledge our current situation with Warnock, Jacobs, Waite and Walker on the sidelines...but he's not the answer. Hammer is coming along just fine. 2009 is a development year with our sights on finals, but it's still a development year; just have a look at the age and experience of today's team (without veterans Scotland and Stevens). Yesterday, over a few coldies, I was discussing what impact just Warnock and Walker will make to this team in the next few weeks; add Bower and Austin to that, and that is a serious injection of talent on every line. With those inclusions (only Waite is written off for the rest of 09), Warnock is the heir apparent for the No 1 spot (watch this space) we can have Kreuzer on the FF line if Setanta can continue to grow in stature. There's the forwardline with Fevola, Kreuzer and Setanta with Betts, Houla (and moreso in the future) Yarran, Robinson and Garlett. We can have Walker either forward (my preference) or back. Now that's a serious forwardline. Add a couple midfielders to the mix and watch out. Finally a multi pronged attack. The midfield is A grade, but can we afford or do we have to reluctantly pinch Gibbs for the drivers role at HB as Healy suggest? No doubt we need someone in the future to develop in that spot, but I still believe Scotto can play that role for a couple of years. Whoever it is, they must have great decision making and great disposal in their arsenal. Gibbs is an obvious one, perhaps Robbo, O'Keefe has the disposal but hasn't proven anything yet. Perhaps Russell can step up, Johnson has the kick (but that's about it). My gut feeling is that it's (from our current list) Walker or Grigg if we don't want it to be Gibbs, and if Scotto is on the outer with the MC because it's the future they are planning for. We have the cattle imo, but they need to take the next step as with all kids, but I have confidence that with the next trade/ draft period, we can snag whatever it is we need...depth? Add another preseason into the kids and Go Bluebaggers. Good post Bondi. Very much agree with your comments on the fwd line; and like you I hope Scotland can play that half back general role until one of the young defenders (Bower/O'Keefe/?) grow into it. Scotto seemed to make a big difference to the composure of the backline when he came back after his first stint in the 2's. Gibbs does spend a lot of time dropping back there to help out but I prefer him working fwd of centre where I think he is more dangerous than Murph. I think Healey has a point about the midfield, we are a couple short of having real depth. So disappointed Hadley has not stepped up. Still holding a hope that, with match conditioning in the 2's, he may break in towards the end of the season. He could be key for us. Healey rightly points out that Stevens is not the answer at half back (read the article again aramari) and I too hope he can come back and be a damaging top line midfielder again as Healey suggests. If Stevens is 'finished' I think it reflects pretty poorly on the coaching staff if they cannot find a creative way to use a player of his class. Like everyone else I can see that the 3W's will make a huge difference to our structures which may in turn solve some of the other issues. The potential is certainly there.

Author:	Ump [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
To be fair, I don't think you can blame the coaching staff entirely if a player isn't fit enough.

Author:	SparkyBlue [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
The issue is that Gibbs is damaging in the forward line, running off half back - or playing in the midfield. The answer? Recruit 2 more Bryce Gibbs. Stevens always played his best football for mine in the midfield - the moment they moved him to the wing, and then running of the half back flank, he struggled. Walker is a possible answer, maybe not in the midfield (besides perhap the wing) - but as a rebounding half back or, like Healy mentioned - a forward pocket. As for Kreuzer as a tall forward? Let's just see how Warnock goes first...

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick Stevens decision will decide Carlton's future
Ump wrote: To be fair, I don't think you can blame the coaching staff entirely if a player isn't fit enough. Precisely Take ownership of the situation Stevo....now that you own that gut and acknowledge it....lose ownership of the gut...simple as that. And....lets give it 100% desire when you cross that white line because when you do you are a class above the rest...when you don't you are a liability.