TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Some Food For Thought

At the beginning of the year i can say with a fair amount of confidence that the majority of Carlton fans believed this team would be playing football in September, fast forward to Round 13 and only by a minor miracle do we find ourselves still in in the 8.

The comment about us being lucky to be in the 8 always cracks me up.

You would think that a team had passed away to allow us easy passage into the 8.

The same could be said, if we hadn't lost Waite or Tex. No one knows what derails a team's ability to win games.

And the Dawks injuries haven't been of pandemic proportions that everyone can keep going with that excuse.

Their backline has been missing, but they haven't leaked that many goals compared to some other teams. The bulk of their best players are still playing.

Their issues are between the ears and complacency.

sure it was very disappointing on Friday night and it certainly stings more because it was the Bombers ...

but I figure ..... given where we've come from .... this is but a hiccup ...... not a haemorrhage

it's certainly not the end of our navy blue world as some would have you think .... it wasn't that long ago, we almost lost our beloved club

I turn 50 today and look forward to many, many more seasons ... with all the highs and lows that go with the journey !

DownUnderChick wrote:

The comment about us being lucky to be in the 8 always cracks me up.

You would think that a team had passed away to allow us easy passage into the 8.

we've lost more games than we've won - yet more teams are below us than above us. We are lucky that there are so many mediocre teams that we are only 9th most mediocre.

Rocco Iguana wrote:

AUGURI for the 50th
BTW.....Sticks HAS TO GO, Ratts HAS TO START BECOMING TACTICALLY ACCEPTABLE and Fev HAS JUST ABOUT LOST ME. I wonder if the players are making a statement to the club that Fev is not a team player. Me thinks there are some internal issues with Fev and his teammates......just a hunch, no conspiracy

DownUnderChick wrote:

The comment about us being lucky to be in the 8 always cracks me up.

You would think that a team had passed away to allow us easy passage into the 8.

If the Hawks season wasn't derailed by injury we would not make the 8.

Great post, great thread.....

Does this game stink of the Pago game against Brisbane?

Author:	TrueBlue_NavyBlues [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:03 am ]
Post subject:	Some Food For Thought
Well i don't think anyone would dispute the fact that Friday Night was one of the darkest days of our season if not our entire history. The lack of effort put in by the boys was a disgrace to the jumper, the club, and the members who have stuck by this club through the darkest time in its history. At the beginning of the year i can say with a fair amount of confidence that the majority of Carlton fans believed this team would be playing football in September, fast forward to Round 13 and only by a minor miracle do we find ourselves still in in the 8. As i recall the Essendon* match i find myself thinking about the following: 1. Is Brett Ratten the right man to be coaching our club? 2. Do we sacrifice short-term gain for long-term gain by dropping Fevola? 3. How is it that young players who give their all for the club are being overlooked in favour of Stevens, Houlihan, Bannister etc. who couldn't seem to give a damn about the club? To point #1, In my honest opinion, no. Whilst Ratten's passion for the club can't be questioned and i honestly can't help but respect how much the guy loves this club i think it's time we stop looking at him through rose coloured glasses and really put the microscope on him. Ratten's tactical knowledge is not up to scratch and it's beginning to cost us vital games. Sydney, Adelaide and now Essendon*, all games that we lost that can be attributed to Rattens' inability to make changes to the gameplan during the game. All coaches make mistakes with their game plans, whether it's a big mistake which needs a total overhaul, or just a few flaws that need minor tweaking all coaches do make mistakes. However the real sign of a great coach is their ability to make those tweaks that will get the side over the line, and unfortunately, Brett Ratten does not have the ability to do that. Some real questions need to be asked about Ratten's coaching ability, and i think they need to be asked now as we prepare to make a charge towards bigger and better things. To point #2, Fevola, to drop him or not to drop him? Again i think he has to be dropped, the man has now gone from not having any impact at all, to having a completely negative opinion on the team and the match. His attitude is a disgrace to the jumper, and as we saw on Friday Night his team mates are getting very sick of it. I don't know if it's a confidence issue from having a slow start to the season but Fevola needs to be made an example of and to be dropped down to the VFL for the rest of the season. For the past three years Fev was the man you wanted with the ball in his hands when we needed a big lift, this year i feel we've come full circle and Fevola has become a liability in high pressure situations. I feel we can no longer rely upon Fev to deliver the goods and step up when the team needs him to. IMO Fevola needs to be traded, trade him to Sydney or the Bulldogs and get some of their young talent (more so with the Bulldogs than the Swans) that we can develop and bring into the team to help us take the next step towards the finals. Fev, you are a leader of this bloody club mate, it's time you damn well started acting like it! That brings me to the third and final point, honestly, how are some of these veterans still getting a game? They do not give a shit! They are supposed to be the leaders of our club and all they are succeeding in doing is providing a negative example to the younger players to whom which they are supposed to be role-models and it's about time we took a stand and let these guys know that we can't tolerate that kind of crap. The club is supposed to be renowned for the spirit of its seasoned veterans and the Carlton spirit which sets us apart from the rest of the competition. The current crop of senior players ATM have brought that spirit into disgrace, Nick Stevens, Ryan Houlihan and Brendan Fevola, i am talking about you boys! Only when we solve the problems within our senior group will we become a top 4 side, we have the youngsters upon which we can build a future powerhouse, but only with the right blend of experience and youth will we reach our ultimate goal of premiership success. To Ratten, the fans, and everyone involved in the Carlton Football Club, it is time to make some tough decisions! No more hoping things will get better, it's time to make things happen instead of waiting for them to fix themselves. It is crunch time, the decisions we make now will make or break our club for the next 10 years, Ratts, Kernahan, MC, for the good of the club, grow a set and make the decisions we all need you too!

Author:	aramari [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
Good post - get where you're coming from. Re - the struggling seniors. To me the older players should be the ones setting the example. They don't need to be the best players, but guys like Adam Simpson and Scott Burns, every team needs this type, the gnarled old pro. I'm happy that Scotland provides this type of example pretty well. I don't see Houla or Stevens doing it, (though they've tried it this year) and the game has sped up to the point that you can't lurk outside waiting for the give with all the time in the world. You get closed down, and these guys need time and space to operate, moreso as they slow down while the game around them speeds up. The guy who I'm worried is becoming our gnarled old pro is Chris Judd. We can't afford for him to be that guy, not for a long time.

Author:	fmurphy30 [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
Whilst I was as pissed about the loss as any Carlton supporter, I think that this (and many other posts) is an over-reaction to the result. 1. Ratten - I think Ratts has done ok. He hasn't had a good game against Knights yet, so plenty are saying he can't coach and should be turfed. Ratts has given Malthouse a touch up on several occasions since taking over as well. Does this make him a better coach than Malthouse? No. He will grow with the group and occasionally stuff up. I am happy enough with where we are heading and pre-season did not consider this year to be finals or bust. 2. Fevola - He wasn't the worst on Friday. Yes the dummy spits and his kicking are worrying, but the time to trade Fev is gone. If we were to do this, it had to be 2 years ago. We are stuck with him now and wouldn't get anything worth trading for him. As he chose to stay, I am happy to let it play out. 3. Older players/young players - This is a concern - Stevens in particular has gone downhill rapidly this year. His disposal in space is still elite, but he doesn't often get it. Bannister did what he does: good game, bad game. He is in trouble. Houla has had a reasonable year, with a couple of hiccups. We have used 35 or so players this year, so I think Ratts is still turning over the list to work out who he wants

Author:	Blue Vain [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
TrueBlue_NavyBlues wrote: At the beginning of the year i can say with a fair amount of confidence that the majority of Carlton fans believed this team would be playing football in September, fast forward to Round 13 and only by a minor miracle do we find ourselves still in in the 8. No, we're in the 8 because we've performed better than the teams below us. Simple as that. There are no miracles.

Author:	DownUnderChick [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
The comment about us being lucky to be in the 8 always cracks me up. You would think that a team had passed away to allow us easy passage into the 8.

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Author:	aramari [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
DownUnderChick wrote: The comment about us being lucky to be in the 8 always cracks me up. You would think that a team had passed away to allow us easy passage into the 8. we've lost more games than we've won - yet more teams are below us than above us. We are lucky that there are so many mediocre teams that we are only 9th most mediocre.

Author:	Melvey [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
DownUnderChick wrote: The comment about us being lucky to be in the 8 always cracks me up. You would think that a team had passed away to allow us easy passage into the 8. If the Hawks season wasn't derailed by injury we would not make the 8.

Author:	DownUnderChick [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
The same could be said, if we hadn't lost Waite or Tex. No one knows what derails a team's ability to win games. And the Dawks injuries haven't been of pandemic proportions that everyone can keep going with that excuse. Their backline has been missing, but they haven't leaked that many goals compared to some other teams. The bulk of their best players are still playing. Their issues are between the ears and complacency.

Author:	Melvey [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
DownUnderChick wrote: The same could be said, if we hadn't lost Waite or Tex. No one knows what derails a team's ability to win games. And the Dawks injuries haven't been of pandemic proportions that everyone can keep going with that excuse. Their backline has been missing, but they haven't leaked that many goals compared to some other teams. The bulk of their best players are still playing. Their issues are between the ears and complacency. Croad, Gilham are missing. Birchall and Guerra missed a few early on. Ladson and Young are critical to that side and haven't played. Franklin and Hodge had no preseason at all. Riolli has missed the past few Waite and Walker don't compare.

Author:	Big Kahuna Boot [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
DownUnderChick wrote: The same could be said, if we hadn't lost Waite or Tex. No one knows what derails a team's ability to win games. And the Dawks injuries haven't been of pandemic proportions that everyone can keep going with that excuse. Their backline has been missing, but they haven't leaked that many goals compared to some other teams. The bulk of their best players are still playing. Their issues are between the ears and complacency. ..admittedly, some teams do persevere thru injuries better than others, but even with some hawks complacency [really mostly evident in buddy], you can't just write off their injuries.. ..how many teams would still play close to their best without their FB, CHB, and main ruck moved into defence..?.. ..add in the ever changing list of players they've put on the park so far this year, and it's plainly obvious that they would struggle.. ..most teams would, and they're 9th so i think it's reasonable for them to be where they are to a certain extent..

Author:	Rocco Iguana [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
sure it was very disappointing on Friday night and it certainly stings more because it was the Bombers ... but I figure ..... given where we've come from .... this is but a hiccup ...... not a haemorrhage it's certainly not the end of our navy blue world as some would have you think .... it wasn't that long ago, we almost lost our beloved club I turn 50 today and look forward to many, many more seasons ... with all the highs and lows that go with the journey !

Author:	99prelim [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
Rocco Iguana wrote: sure it was very disappointing on Friday night and it certainly stings more because it was the Bombers ... but I figure ..... given where we've come from .... this is but a hiccup ...... not a haemorrhage it's certainly not the end of our navy blue world as some would have you think .... it wasn't that long ago, we almost lost our beloved club I turn 50 today and look forward to many, many more seasons ... with all the highs and lows that go with the journey ! AUGURI for the 50th BTW.....Sticks has to go, Ratts Has To Start Becoming Tactically Acceptable and Fev has just about lost me. I wonder if the players are making a statement to the club that Fev is not a team player. Me thinks there are some internal issues with Fev and his teammates......just a hunch, no conspiracy

Author:	Blue Vain [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
aramari wrote: DownUnderChick wrote: The comment about us being lucky to be in the 8 always cracks me up. You would think that a team had passed away to allow us easy passage into the 8. we've lost more games than we've won - yet more teams are below us than above us. We are lucky that there are so many mediocre teams that we are only 9th most mediocre. Pretty much sums up a lot of posters at the moment. We're not the 8th best team, we're "the 9th most mediochre" As Effie would say, "How embarrassment".

Author:	frank dardew [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
Im not sure Hawthorn have been struck by injury any more than any other team Against St Kilda we couldnt access the talent of thorton waite - I thought they were our chb and fb - walker and Warnock - against Essendon* we still couldnt access those players Walker and waite our IMHO our two most versatile players - not necessarily our best but our most versatile At other times we have had injury concerns with both Grigg and carrazzo who I consider are part of our best 22 Whilst lower in the pecking order fisher bentick wiggins and jacobs have been missing for periods- they arent key but still can fill a role when others are injured Lets not get too seduced by other injuries when Hawthorn say on Saturday the champ Rick LADSON is back - its spin -he is an honest footballer but hardly a core player Thats not to say Friday night wasnt a deplorable performance it was and injuries are no excuse

Author:	Orangewhip [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
Although the opening post is at least restrained compared to the absolute tripe that has been posted by the usual keyboard heroes on the main board since last Friday, it still reeks of the same drama queen shit. Is the expectation for glory that attention deficit syndrome affected because of the immediacy of the forum, or are apparent supporters really that convinced of their own opinion? We are as much a work in progress as any middle tier side at the moment and although a thrashing by Essendon* may be hard to stomach, particularly in the tired fashion our team capitulated- there's half a season to go for us. It's not over. Posters on here are as irrational and paranoid and scathing as the some media and most opposition supporters at times when it comes to Carlton. And worse than that- hypocritical. Is it that hard to keep the faith? Go Blues

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Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
99prelim wrote: Rocco Iguana wrote: sure it was very disappointing on Friday night and it certainly stings more because it was the Bombers ... but I figure ..... given where we've come from .... this is but a hiccup ...... not a haemorrhage it's certainly not the end of our navy blue world as some would have you think .... it wasn't that long ago, we almost lost our beloved club I turn 50 today and look forward to many, many more seasons ... with all the highs and lows that go with the journey ! AUGURI for the 50th BTW.....Sticks HAS TO GO, Ratts HAS TO START BECOMING TACTICALLY ACCEPTABLE and Fev HAS JUST ABOUT LOST ME. I wonder if the players are making a statement to the club that Fev is not a team player. Me thinks there are some internal issues with Fev and his teammates......just a hunch, no conspiracy I have a few hunches about Fev too... ....oops sorry DUC..

Author:	linchpin [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
Great post, great thread..... Does this game stink of the Pago game against Brisbane?

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Some Food For Thought
Melvey wrote: DownUnderChick wrote: The comment about us being lucky to be in the 8 always cracks me up. You would think that a team had passed away to allow us easy passage into the 8. If the Hawks season wasn't derailed by injury we would not make the 8. What a load of rubbish. Maybe they aren't trying. The Hawks are being smug and lazy this year. That's cost them as many matches as injury. They've also won a couple which they deserved to lose.