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What we need to do to take the next step....
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Author:  Dominator_7 [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  What we need to do to take the next step....
- Get a President who is not a puppet (eg. Fahour)..

- Stevo has to be traded... He's set such a shocking example for the youngsters this year with his laziness and unwillingness to accpt responsibility for this actions.

- I've been resisting this for years, but I'll finally entertain the thought of trading Fev for high picks or established guns... He is way too selfish and always goes for the flashy option rather then the tried and true regular one. Some examples from Friday night:
* a fancy handpass that caused a turnover and a goal to Essendon*.
* He opted twice for fancy snap shots rather then regular shots at goal and stuffed it up both times
* took a mark and showed the ball to his opponent... then missed the shot
* no mater where he marked it within 55 from goal (even when on impossible angles), never once looked for better options
* refused to chase his opponent who ran off him twice and this resulted in two goal assists in the 3rd qtr
* Hardly ever takes responsibility when he makes a mistake

- If we dont make the finals, even though Ratts is contracted, we should look for a better coaching option if available. We should be doing a lot better with the talent at the coaches disposal. then we are at the moment.
If Ratts stays, get an experienced senior assistant who can help Ratts (eg. Laidley). I know people might laugh at this, but look what a good job Laidley has done with a pretty average list while he was at North. Ratts obviously has issues with the tactical side of things.. We need to get someone that can either assist him with this better then 'bomber ' Riley is at the minute

- Stop playing the usual duds like Bannister, Russell, Wiggins..

- Start making the tough calls at Match comitee

- Improved recruiting and development staff
Author:  Blueboy_Dan [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Quote:
Stevo has to be traded... He's set such a shocking example for the youngsters this year with his laziness and unwillingness to accpt responsibility for this actions.


Stevo has no currency: pushing 30, slow, neck injury. Who in their right minds would give us anything decent for him considering that the draft will be compromised after this season?
Author:  Koro [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
I do agree that we should look at bringing Laidley in to help Ratts with the tactical side of things. It is said that Laidley is pretty good at analysing what is needed for each game and the matchday side of things. Ratts seems to be great a deconstructing a loss :oops: (sorry), and someone i want to succeed. But I think getting Laidley in to help in some role is definitely worth a serious look.

I'm not sure that we would get anything for Stevo, especially in this upcoming draft, but if someone offered...

As for Fev, we have left it so late to either trade or fix. I don't know what would work with him, but whatever approach used now isn't working. He could be the premier forward of the comp. Where as at the moment we laud him when he chases and does the basic thing every other good AFL player does without much comment. If we trade him, we need to get a couple of key position prospects this year, as we have no forward depth to turn to. (Or a lot of depth anywhere for that matter).

Bearing in mind that if we do trade Fev, there is a good chance that 2010 will be spent in the bottom 8, as we don't have the quality forward players or setup to imitate the Bulldogs or Crows. Of course, if we don't trade him, will he take us to number 17...? Short answer - dunno.
Author:  verbs [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
If internet posters can identify highly negative aspects of a player, and use them as trade initiatives, why would an AFL club staff member who doesn't spend all day, 7 days a week posting on the internet, even entertain a trade with said player?
Author:  Melvey [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Our club is lacking leadership, is lacking direction and someone with a vision and a formula to winning our 17th.

This club needs a proven leader, a premiership winning man at the helm. Men like Roos, Woosha or Williams guiding the boys and this once mighty club. Those i mentioned are on top of the game in terms of development, strategy, modern day footy, sports science and recruitment. They know what it takes, what is needed and how to go about it. All three coached AFL teams to a premiership and not in the Ringwood district league.

As each week passes i have no doubt that the players are losing faith in Brett Ratten.

Me a Carlton supporter and member has lost faith.

Each week it seems as if Ratten and his ex team mates come up with a new plan over a parma and a pot in the social club.

Clubs like Essendon*, St Kilda, Hawthorn, Sydney, Brisbane and even the Bulldogs are miles ahead of us with there football department.

Maybe there is a reason why Eddie McGuire wanted Greg Swann to move away from the football department and stick to admin role? Stephen Icke has come from a successful fremantle who have played one finals game in there entire existence. I think our crippling debt is still causing us issues and we are not spending no where the amount on our football department as we should and are turning to ex players to do the job.

Piss of Nick Stevens and use his 500k a year to secure a Laidley or even get a Williams or Roos as coach of this club and leader of our men
Author:  budzy [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
verbs wrote:
If internet posters can identify highly negative aspects of a player, and use them as trade initiatives, why would an AFL club staff member who doesn't spend all day, 7 days a week posting on the internet, even entertain a trade with said player?


:Ackland:
Author:  Effes [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Don't know why you'd want Williams Melvey.

He looks to have lost the players at Port. Game plan based on soft runners like Burgoyne and Pearce.

I dislike aspects of the gameplan but watching Essendon* and St Kilda this week there are certain parts of the game where it is the players responsibility to make things happen.

The main one being general pressure all over the ground.

Essendon* and St Kilda shut their opponents down at every opportunity. It prevented them from moving the ball on quickly, or if they tried to they would turn it over.

It should be extremely clear to everyone that you do not need to have any ability to apply this pressure. It is all about your attitude as a player. Are you prepared to close down a player so they can't play on, or to even turn it over.

Our players didn't close Essendon* down because they were @#$%&! lazy. Weren't prepared to do the hard work.

Forget about the tactical side for a moment, but the players didn't need any direction or instructions to apply pressure.

You can't tell me that it's Ratten's job to motivate the players to apply this pressure. Surely the opportunity to cement yourself in the eight and beat a traditional rival is enough motivation.

The players showed that they didn't want to apply the pressure required or the hardness to win 50/50 contests because they were @#$%&! lazy. You need the talent and the tactics but firstly you need effort and the players didn't give it on Friday when there was no reason for them not to.

So Ratten now has a chance to show the players that a substandard effort will result in you losing your place in the team.

If that means Fevola gets dropped for not chasing Pears then bad luck.

Same goes for someone like Stevens who coughed the ball up when any pressure was applied (a trait he showed in finals when playing for Port.)
Author:  carltonac [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
* Trade Fev:
Fev is an immature, arrogant and self centered individual, who only cares for himself and making himself look like a hero. He doesn't give a crap about his teammates or the team, due to his continual telling teammates off and refusing to do the 2nd and 3rd efforts (like chasing and tackling), for the benefit of the team. His body language is bad more times than it is good. He should be dropped and even traded, but unfortunately our coach and power brokers (e.g management) at the club, don't have the guts to make a statement. By continually letting Fev get away with this attitude and performances, he is getting the message that it is O.k to do what he is doing, as he is guaranteed a game and career at Carlton. He should have been traded 3 years ago after that pathetic display of attitude at Subiaco against Fremantle where he gave a 100 metre penalty away. I was there that day and there was talk after the game in the media after a statement from Greg Swann, that Carlton were disgusted and considering trading Fev at years end, due to his attitude and ransom at contract negotiations. Well we all know it was a big bluff. He has made it really hard for the club when dealing new contracts, and then the club give in and Fev puts in performances like Friday night. He is not worth the money he is reportedly on. He will never be as good as say a Riewoldt or Brown, as he doesn't do the work off the ball, as these 2 guys. Even if Riewoldt and Brown aren't scoring goals their 2nd and 3rd efforts and body language are still 100%.

* Trade Stevens:
Until this year, I have been a supporter of Stevens, therefore not really seeing his weaknesses. But this year his weaknesses like not; chasing, tackling, putting his body on the line and continually turning the ball over, have become so evident, that it is hard for even his supporters to not notice. I say trade.

* Stop letting Ex-Carlton players influence decisions at Carlton
I believe that there is also a favoritism problem at Carlton. This is the reason why I believe Ratten got the coaching position. Yes Carlton were after Voss, but once Voss pulled out of the Carlton coaching postion, Ratten got the job without Carlton going through the process of interviewing and seeking the best coach for the job. I believe Ratten got the job due to Kernahan having an influence. They were old teammates, and even though Carlton might argue that they interviewed other candidates for the coaching position, I believe Ratten's name was already listed. For any other potential candidate, I believe they were trying to show Carlton why they were better than Ratten for the coaching job, rather than they were the best candidate for Carlton. In other words it was like Ratten vs Candidate B, rather than Candidate A vs Candidate B and so on.

For Carlton to move forward, I think the Carlton influences like Kernahan and Ratten etc need to go, and outside sources need to be brought in to the club. This would eliminate any conflict of interest or favoritism at the club. This is the only way the Carlton organization can be successful. Outside sources would be able to make decisions that best suit Carlton in an unbiased manner, rather than make decisions based on friendships or favoritism. We need someone to make decisions on behalf of the club using their head, rather than their heart.

* Sack Ratten as coach because;
He is too soft. E.g he refuses to drop or drag players like Fevola and Stevens. Even against Essendon* on Friday, at 3 quarter time he didn't seem to be giving the players a good old fashion spray.
He seems to say the same things after match press conferences, whether we lose buy 20 points or 70 points. He doesn't show enough anger or disappointment at the result, instead trying too make excuses or talk about positives.
He only has a Game Plan A rather than a Plan B or C. This is why we continually lose to the same teams every year whilst Ratten has been in charge. Ratten's bogey coaches are; Craig, Knights, Clarkson, Roos and Lyon.

* Leadership group should only consist of 4 players
Leadership group should only consist of 4 players who try 100% week after week, even if they are having a bad day. Players like Judd, Murphy, Simpson and Waite would be ideal. Gibbs has been a bit inconsistent this year and Kreuzer is still too young, but in time will be in leadership. Having a large leadership group means POTENTIALLY having a higher chance of players with big ego's or complacency in it, due to their status as leadership group members.

* Get a new Recruitment team
We need an overhaul of the Recruitment team. They have been good at selecting the No 1's, but apart from that there have been more fails than passes. Since 2004 when Hughes took over he has not picked many players with good foot skills, hardness at the ball, or good decision making skills. Time for a new Recruitment manager and support team.
Author:  The Normal One [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
For mine we need to reinvent the forward line. I have thoughts on this if the offer(s) were right.

1. Trade Houlihan and Fisher for players or late 3rd-4th round picks.
2. Trade Fev IF we can get 1 top 10 pick and a 20-30 pick. Trade off will be Fev's salary as to why we couldn't get any better a deal IMO.
3. Trade T-Bird for a first round pick.
4. Target fringe forwards from another club that would fill a 'role' within the team. James Sellar (Key Position), Jarryd Morton (Lead up target), Patrick Veszpremi (Medhurst/Maric type) are a few I think would add value to our team.
5. Use the draft to develop depth up forward.
Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Ratten has to be harder but I dont think thats his forte......discipline and intensity are down and he makes the same mistakes on a regular basis .

The deadwood has to be culled from the list......the recruiting dept should be placed on notice,the list has plenty of holes and while you cant build Rome in a day I dont like seeing Essendon* with a better balanced list, players with better skills on both side of their body, better fitness and depth and thst after they started their rebuilding later than us.
We have good A graders but fall away badly after that and have too few players in the B grade bracket..Essendon* are far more even...

I'm not a person to blindly rush into recruiting another novice coach like Buckley because given our list and poor skills I dont think he would make the difference,....I'd prefer to target a coach with premiership experience but with a youthful outlook who is flexible.ie a Paul Roos and that might take another year before he was available.
Author:  99prelim [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Carlton's off field leadership (except swann) and on field leadership (except judd) is an out and out embarrassment.
Author:  verbs [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Who's embarrassed?
Author:  aramari [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Rafalution wrote:
For mine we need to reinvent the forward line. I have thoughts on this if the offer(s) were right.

1. Trade Houlihan and Fisher for players or late 3rd-4th round picks. neither worth more than 4th rnd at best
2. Trade Fev IF we can get 1 top 10 pick and a 20-30 pick. Trade off will be Fev's salary as to why we couldn't get any better a deal IMO.
3. Trade T-Bird for a first round pick. He's worth pick 20 in a weak draft at best, I would think
4. Target fringe forwards from another club that would fill a 'role' within the team. James Sellar (Key Position), Jarryd Morton (Lead up target), Patrick Veszpremi (Medhurst/Maric type) are a few I think would add value to our team. Fev for Vespa plus pick 22ish :thumbsup: in. a. flash. Vespa could be the next Porplezia or the next Hodge, which is why Sydney will keep him :wink:
5. Use the draft to develop depth up forward.
Author:  stretford blue [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
you know the last week's events, (off field and on), has reminded me of an old joke. A guy goes for a drive in the country but gets lost. He pulls over to ask directions back to the city from a local only to be told "you can't get there from here".

I'm starting to get the same feeling with this club and real success.
Author:  keogh [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
I think the problems that the club is experiencing at the moment again comes back to hindsight.

Tough decisions needed to be made a few years ago. The club was so bad with so many bad players that they didnt want to take 3 steps back not 2. Consequently
we have Banno on our list still using him as an example.

In short we needed to delist more players.

We now have a plethora of players who arnt good enough and have no depth.

Also we have fallen into the trap of thinking 3 number one picks and a superstar could completely turn things around

We have also kept Stevens and Fevola on long termed contracts which has bitten us on the bum particularly Stevens who has been a soft player since he came into the AFL.
We are stuck with them now

We have a coach who doesnt have a game plan that works and like Pagan is too soft on his players probably because he knows there is nothing worthy to replace them.




This weekend we travel to Perth in a "must win"
IMO Stevens and Fevola shouldnt be playing because of their selfish efforts Friday night

But if that happens do you think Hartlett and Ando are going to give us something

IN the end the same problems are occuring that have flooded this club for the last 10 years.

Ratten needs to start all over again and start by dropping Fev and Stevo plus 4 others.

Forget about finals. He needs to play every player on the list for 2 games at least.

Trade Fevola. Friday night for me was the last straw. Some club may be stupid enough to get him. The bad now outweighs the good with Brendan
Give Stevo and Hoops the flick pay out Stevos contract

The lack of development of our lower rung players is disturbing.
We need a Carlton seconds team.
Teague, Lappin and Pike need to be moved on.
Melvey bangs on about Alan Richardson but he is right. I wanted him as well.

The problem is the team will travel to Perth and win. Fev will kick 6 and Syevo will get 25 possessions and we will still be in the eight. And the Carlton arrogance will return.
Its misguided
After the Sydney round 4 game I new we were in trouble.

We need a clean out at the end of the year
Trade Fev
No more Stevo Hoops
and a dozen further players need to be moved on as well.
fix up the reserves by employing people who can develop our youngsters better
have a game pla n a,b and c
be tougher on players by dropping them if they play selfish footy
If this is done we can still be up their in 4 years.
Judd will be 30
Gibbs Murphy Kreuzer will be at their peak.
Dont do it and we will be around the middle of the ladder for sure.
Action quickly needs to be done.
Author:  Blueboy_Dan [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Where were all these threads after the saints match?
Author:  DownUnderChick [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
I've cleaned up some posts, which were off topic.

To those posters who can't stay on topic and like word games, go to Talking Fun. :thanks:
Author:  gsker1 [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Blueboy_Dan wrote:
Quote:
Stevo has to be traded... He's set such a shocking example for the youngsters this year with his laziness and unwillingness to accpt responsibility for this actions.


Stevo has no currency: pushing 30, slow, neck injury. Who in their right minds would give us anything decent for him considering that the draft will be compromised after this season?



Possibly Gold Coast's next captain? They need experience :smoking:
Author:  jimmae [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Rubbish thread. The next step is mental. Purely mental. Much like this thread.
Author:  bluechucky [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What we need to do to take the next step....
Dominator_7 wrote:
- Get a President who is not a puppet (eg. Fahour)..

Will you people forget fahour!! :banghead:
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