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| Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25077 |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
If you go by the media and popular opinion, Ablett Jnr has gone past Juddy to be the premier midfielder in the AFL. And when you watch Ablett Jnr run amok gathering 40+ touches and kicking goals on the run from 45m, it's hard to argue against that. However, on the weekend Judd had an unbelievably high 22 1st possessions/clearances, whereas Ablett Jnr only had 8. It'd be interesting to know if this is the case most weeks. But I am guessing Judd leads Ablett on these vital stats, simply because I know he is leading the AFL in hard ball gets (and did so last year too). Question is, if Judd played for Geelong, would he run amok like Ablett Jnr does bec he has more protection in midfield with the likes of Selwood, Corey, Ling, Chapman, Bartel doing the hard work? And if Ablett Jnr played in the Carlton team, would he be able to rack up so many 1st possessions/clearances like Judd does? My gut feel is if the players swapped clubs, Judd would thrive being the outside mid at Geelong, and Ablett would not be able to win as much hard ball at Carlton as Judd does. I'm sure there wouldn't be a helluva lot in it, but my gut feel is Judd is still the MAN. |
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| Author: | Dirko [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Yes. This is straight from my source at the Crows. When Geelong played Adelaide, Adelaide's ploy was to let Ablett play free, but double team him, once he went forward of centre to limit his effectiveness. The majority of possessions he got in that game where behind centre, and therefore his attacking role was diminished to some extent. My insider said although they ended up getting smashed, they thought Ablett's impact on the game was negligible even though he racked up 40 odd possessions. The ploy for Judd was to take him out no matter where he was as Judd is more capable of causing damage and doesn't venture down back looking for cheap possessions like Ablett does. Adelaide tried hard to get Shirley off, but when that failed used Doughty, plus whoever else was around to try and limit Judd's influence. They knew if they locked down Judd the game would be there for the taking, as they see him being that good. They rate Judd higher then Ablett. |
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| Author: | Navy Blue Horse [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
I rate Judd higher. Works harder for the ball, more explosive, more damaging. All in a lesser team. LMAO at that Champion Data 'Brownlow prediction' that has Judd with 7 votes and Kade Simpson with 9. |
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| Author: | blu944 [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
I agree with your analysis, I wouldn't swap Judd for Ablett or anyone else in the league for that matter. Ablett is star, but when you play the way he does, ie. gather, handball, stop, handball receive, stop, handball back the way he came, run on, handball receive, kick; then you shouldn't have your quality measured by stats. So much of what he does is 3 touches for every play, it's effective yes but a 40 touch game of Ablett is the equivelent of a 26 game for Judd. |
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| Author: | Wild Blue Yonder [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
both absolutely outstanding. |
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| Author: | Virgin Blue [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Does anyone know a website that shows 1st possessions and clearances for every player in every game? |
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| Author: | aramari [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Navy Blue Horse wrote: I rate Judd higher. Works harder for the ball, more explosive, more damaging. All in a lesser team. LMAO at that Champion Data 'Brownlow prediction' that has Judd with 7 votes and Kade Simpson with 9. CD don't rate Simpson's year higher than Judd - their Brownlow formula identifies umpires voting patterns and preferences. The umpires have a different view of the game... |
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| Author: | aramari [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Virgin Blue wrote: If you go by the media and popular opinion, Ablett Jnr has gone past Juddy to be the premier midfielder in the AFL. And when you watch Ablett Jnr run amok gathering 40+ touches and kicking goals on the run from 45m, it's hard to argue against that. However, on the weekend Judd had an unbelievably high 22 1st possessions/clearances, whereas Ablett Jnr only had 8. It'd be interesting to know if this is the case most weeks. But I am guessing Judd leads Ablett on these vital stats, simply because I know he is leading the AFL in hard ball gets (and did so last year too). Question is, if Judd played for Geelong, would he run amok like Ablett Jnr does bec he has more protection in midfield with the likes of Selwood, Corey, Ling, Chapman, Bartel doing the hard work? And if Ablett Jnr played in the Carlton team, would he be able to rack up so many 1st possessions/clearances like Judd does? My gut feel is if the players swapped clubs, Judd would thrive being the outside mid at Geelong, and Ablett would not be able to win as much hard ball at Carlton as Judd does. I'm sure there wouldn't be a helluva lot in it, but my gut feel is Judd is still the MAN. There was a stage in the game where Judd seemed to have the first possession 8 times in a row |
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| Author: | The Duke [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Navy Blue Horse wrote: LMAO at that Champion Data 'Brownlow prediction' that has Judd with 7 votes and Kade Simpson with 9. That was the funniest thing I've seen for a while also. We all agree that Simmo's had a pretty bad year by his standards to date, yet JUDD is enjoying his highest PPG tally for his career. Most of those are contested and clearences to boot. Judd is different to Ablett.... but over all a better player. Geelong have 450 ppg where we have about 380ppg. Jnr gets heaps of cheapies. |
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| Author: | wasthesonofapreacherman [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Hird, Voss and Black to name but a few in the past fortnight have stated they rated him the best player in the competition. Highly credible, objective, opinions. Nuff said. |
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| Author: | true_blue3 [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
both players are head and shoulders above everyone else in the comp. and while it's incredibly hard to separate the two, i think ablett's skills put him in front by a nose. |
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| Author: | Melvey [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Who cares. Seriously. Both are absolute guns and i would be happy with either in my team |
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| Author: | ozdevil [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
if you ever notice that ablett gets the ball passes it off then recieves it back where as judd has to go in and get the ball and do something with it The question i would be asking if ablett was at another club would he be getting dealt the same hand he is now.. we might look for judd a bit of the time but 99% of the time judd has to make something from nothing Ablett doesnt Both players are brilliant but i just think Judd is a bit more smarter and wiser then ablett with in the skill levels of the game and i think judd has the abilty to read the game a bit better to put himself in the best possible position for the next part of his play |
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| Author: | HELLAS BLUE [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
true_blue3 wrote: both players are head and shoulders above everyone else in the comp. and while it's incredibly hard to separate the two, i think ablett's skills put him in front by a nose. Up till 4-5 weeks ago, I would have agreed but Judd has gone and taken it a whole new level lately. Judd for mine. |
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| Author: | Teddy [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Not fair to criticise Ablett cause he plays in a great team. If Gary Jnr played for Melbourne he’d stand out like a sore thumb and may even be considered more of a gun. Is he better than Judd? Hmmm ... Both are once in a decade players, and probably once in a generation players. If Judd continues the second half of his career in the same vein as the first half, he will probably be in the top 5 all time footballers. And if Gary Jnr continues the way he is going he could be rated higher than his father. Two absolute champions. It’s a privilege to watch them play. |
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| Author: | Big Kahuna Boot [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
..Judd easily by far.. ..he carries the blues midfield.. ..Gazza while a great player, does not carry the cats midfield.. ..Bartel does.. ..as good as Gazza is for the cats, if they lose Bartel or Ling or even say Corey they feel it more than losing Gazza.. ..which sounds crazy but it's spot on.. |
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| Author: | Kruscendo [ Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Judd No 1 in the league for contested possessions No 1 in the league for clearances No 1 in the league for inside 50's If they are not the 3 main stats you need from a midfielder, I'm not sure what are. He is also high on the tackles list too Last year, he was just number one in the contested possessions, but this year we have obviously got him a little more space ( improvement in other midfielders or tactics?) I am stoked to see him leading inside 50's because when he has the ball, the best option is always taken. I read this somewhere else today but how good is it when you see the rest of our team bumbling with it in the back half struggling to get it forward, and Judd just comes down, takes control and makes something happen. The last 2 weeks he has been running and bouncing more and taking people on again too. Add the pack mark form a few weeks back and you simply can't ask for more! Ps: Love the Judd threads, I wish there was a new one every day. Can't get enough of reading about him. And for the record, although I'm not sure who is better, or if you can even compare accurately, I would personally take Judd every time without hesitation ( except if it was in a super coach team, where Ablett is definitely number one......) |
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| Author: | true_blue3 [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Kruscendo wrote: Judd No 1 in the league for contested possessions No 1 in the league for clearances No 1 in the league for inside 50's If they are not the 3 main stats you need from a midfielder, I'm not sure what are. He is also high on the tackles list too without doing any research, i'd say ablett would have very similar numbers to judd if you took averages, including a game where he went off early with an injury. |
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| Author: | aramari [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
Big Kahuna Boot wrote: ..Judd easily by far.. ..he carries the blues midfield.. ..Gazza while a great player, does not carry the cats midfield.. ..Bartel does.. ..as good as Gazza is for the cats, if they lose Bartel or Ling or even say Corey they feel it more than losing Gazza.. ..which sounds crazy but it's spot on.. It's not Gary's fault he plays for a great team. Judd's hurt factor per possession is higher at the moment but the Cats play an ultra-high possession game. I also think Ablett hasn't been as damaging since he came back from injury, regardless of 43 touches last week, while Judd has stepped it up a notch. Ablett's early season form was on a different plane. Both champions, and I feel privileged that one of them plays for us. God help us if he gets hurt |
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| Author: | aramari [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Judd Better than Ablett Jnr? |
true_blue3 wrote: Kruscendo wrote: Judd No 1 in the league for contested possessions No 1 in the league for clearances No 1 in the league for inside 50's If they are not the 3 main stats you need from a midfielder, I'm not sure what are. He is also high on the tackles list too without doing any research, i'd say ablett would have very similar numbers to judd if you took averages, including a game where he went off early with an injury. Ablett not in the frame for inside 50s - Judd easily Judd more clearances per game, can't find Ablett's exact numbers Ablett averages 1 more contested possession per game Ablett averages a ridiculous 36 touches per game |
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