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| I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24899 |
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| Author: | Rambo Stallone [ Sun May 24, 2009 11:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
What the hell has happen,we are 4 wins out of 9 and really only beaten 1 team that counts Western Bulldogs.The only team that was a top 8 maybe was Brisbane Lions that we also won. I look at the team and basically we have like 20 + similar players in size that play the midfield/half back thing no real big men with quality except Waite and Kreuzer . Paul Bower the only other at this moment with the hope Austin can makes it.Michael Jamison and Bret Thornton are serviceable backmen at best. The list has to be one of the weakest in the AFL regarding key position,tall defenders and forwards,most clubs have them and have back up kids coming through. The other thing how can you win a flag in a couple of years or even make the finals when all players don't make a pact to not touch a drop of alcohol during the season. The people on here blamed Denis pagan for the players performance and now it's happening to Brett Ratten. I personally thought it was a mistake making him coach only because we rushed into it. I would rather have a coach like another Malcolm Blight type who would have no favorite and scare some seniors players.He even dropped Tony Modra who had 100 goals a season for a grand final,that's someone with guts. I could not believe any young coach could get a few years extra contract when nothing has been achieved except winning some early games or looking good in a pre season. This is my opinion of our team,what do you think. Have i been generous or a bit hard. Andrew Walker Good player,should be a lot better,probably still hasn't shown his best. Jordan Russell Trade material for Adelaide or Port Adelaide,still is a Average player. Marc Murphy Great player,will get better Bryce Gibbs Good player but i reckon he is a bit soft at the moment as a number 1 pick Chris Judd Great player but has played his best at the Eagles i reckon. Kade Simpson Good player but that's about it. Adam Bentick Hard and tough but looks gone Matthew Kreuzer Outstanding player he will Be.He will be the best player in years time. Chris Johnson Did we need him,don't think so. Richard Hadley Doesn't do enough to be a good player. I rather play a kid. Robert Warnock I thought he was Overrated in Fremantle in a big way,we see next year Mitch Robinson Goes in hard,has a good game and sometimes has a quiet one but worth persisting. Chris Yarran Forget this Year,it be his 3rd year that we see what he has. Brad Fisher He Can kick goals and be a bit of headache to other teams but plays for Bullants. Steven Browne Needs to fix His turn overs but is rather young still. Shaun Grigg Good player,this year has been hit with injuries and not getting his best. Setanta O'hAilpin Time is up,sorry,nearly 27 and not in the 22,you need someone to stay for years. Paul Bower O.K player,keep playing him. Eddie Betts Doing well and still has many years. Rhys O'Keeffe Next year should see him more. Mark Austin We need Talls,his Young,just keep playing him for the rest of the season. Shaun Hampson I hope he makes it,we gave away a good pick,shows a bit,just play him. Adam Hartlett The Last half of the season will see if he has it in defence. Nick Stevens O.K player but for me one of the most overrated players in AFL. Brendan Fevola Great Player when he is on fire,but this year looks injured Joe Anderson Hard to tell with Joe,doesn't really get a 5-6 games run. Dennis Armfield Small defender/midfield like Ross Young does Ok sometimes but turns it over also Cameron Cloke Too Many ruckmen types in the 22 and not that good up forward,hot and cold. Heath Scotland Good player but not getting younger and starting to show with injuries. Jarrad Waite One Of our Best Players and now injured. Jordan Bannister Time is up For him as a defender,he isn't bad but not that great also. Bret Thornton One of our best defenders still. Ryan Houlihan Play him up forward,still a good player really,just goes missing sometimes.. Simon Wiggins Sorry if he is in as a key position forward it pretty much means we going backwards. Caleb Tiller Work in progress,would be re rookied if struggling in bullants reserves if cut. Darren Pfeiffer Doesn't look up to it Jake Edwards He looks gone unless he does something soon. Jefferey Garlett He looks like a player to work with. Sam Jacobs He wasn't to bad when we were winning,but will he get a spot in the 38. Michael Jamison Good defender. Lachlan Hill 2 years as a Rookie already,hasn't really done much yet for bullants i think. Luke Stanton I guess he will be kept as a rookie if showing a little. Andrew Carrazzo O.K player,don't kid yourself because of his best and fairest. Aaron Joseph Will get promoted,has done o.k. David Ellard Has to show more to get a spot on the list. Greg Bentley 1 year rookie at best. |
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| Author: | BlueMark [ Mon May 25, 2009 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
No, just Elliot. |
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| Author: | Melvey [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
The club is still a mess its ust they've done a great job masking it |
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| Author: | darknavy [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
Easy tiger - If we won on Saturday we would be third and probably all creaming ourselves. Its the missed opportunity that is hurting at the moment moreso than the loss. The club is far from a mess and I doubt that the best of Judd is behind him  .It is a tight season and we played a crap game with a relatively young side. Beat the Eagles on Friday night and we are back in the 8. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
darknavy wrote: Easy tiger - If we won on Saturday we would be third and probably all creaming ourselves. It is a tight season and we played a crap game with a relatively young side. Beat the Eagles on Friday night and we are back in the 8. Too bad we dont play the Eages 22 times though... |
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| Author: | darknavy [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
Synbad wrote: darknavy wrote: Easy tiger - If we won on Saturday we would be third and probably all creaming ourselves. It is a tight season and we played a crap game with a relatively young side. Beat the Eagles on Friday night and we are back in the 8. Too bad we dont play the Eages 22 times though... Synbad, Melvey and Rambo Stallone all bagging our team - unheard of 
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| Author: | The Duke [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
Many posters here were so convincing that getting rid of DP was all we had to do for success. Now we've got an inexperienced coach that consistantly makes errors on gameplan and team selection. Right now, playing the way we are, I can only confidently see us beating 4 teams in the comp. We're one win off third and 1 from 14th with 3 tough games ahead. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
darknavy wrote: Synbad wrote: darknavy wrote: Easy tiger - If we won on Saturday we would be third and probably all creaming ourselves. It is a tight season and we played a crap game with a relatively young side. Beat the Eagles on Friday night and we are back in the 8. Too bad we dont play the Eages 22 times though... Synbad, Melvey and Rambo Stallone all bagging our team - unheard of Is the club youre meant to be supporting.... its about the bigger picture.... 
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| Author: | darknavy [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
Rambo Stallone wrote: The other thing how can you win a flag in a couple of years or even make the finals when all players don't make a pact to not touch a drop of alcohol during the season.  Buddy Franklin never hit a nightclub last year |
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| Author: | darknavy [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
Synbad wrote: darknavy wrote: Synbad wrote: darknavy wrote: Easy tiger - If we won on Saturday we would be third and probably all creaming ourselves. It is a tight season and we played a crap game with a relatively young side. Beat the Eagles on Friday night and we are back in the 8. Too bad we dont play the Eages 22 times though... Synbad, Melvey and Rambo Stallone all bagging our team - unheard of Is the club youre meant to be supporting.... its about the bigger picture.... If you want to make it personal step outside. But.... I love it when when you talk about big picture stuff on the Monday after a bad loss. Trees???..forest???? The aim of the club was clearly stated at the end of last season - to make the finals this year. We thump Richmond in R1 and everyone is talking top 4 and flags. We are still well on target to make the 8 this year and that is the big picture. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
darknavy wrote: Rambo Stallone wrote: The other thing how can you win a flag in a couple of years or even make the finals when all players don't make a pact to not touch a drop of alcohol during the season. Buddy Franklin never hit a nightclub last year Buddy won a flag last year.. and won the Coleman... Why do you compare apples with oranges? Forget about what Buddy did...... ... what are we doing to win a flag??? How are our players treating their quest??? If HaWthrn won a flag cos noone else turned up .. thats their business.. they won it ... and good luck to them... BUT... how are we going about it??? Why do we have to compare ourselves with teams that have won something already? Why wouldnt you compare us to teams that havent recently as examples of what might happen ? You need to be scared of failing... not thinking its all going to happen .. just cos.... it happened somewhere else. We were all laughing at Thomas/Butters and the process... ready made team... should have won something... cos they had the right players to. Its probably correct that Thomas had a better list than Lyon.... Thomas was talking "dynasty"... but hey that went belly up didnt it under Thomas?? You cannot take anything for granted... if you are truly in the quest for success... NOTHING!!! You need to do most things right and have alot of luck... Somehow as Carlton people we have been spoilt and think it will all happen and we will win flaGS... Bet Collingwood always thought like that once upon a time.. and Melbourne.. and Fitzroy... and Richmond.... But hey its even harder nowadays.... drafts .. salary caps... more teams... and the system makes it much harder in some ways... Dont take it lightly... |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Mon May 25, 2009 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
darknavy wrote: Synbad wrote: darknavy wrote: Synbad wrote: darknavy wrote: Easy tiger - If we won on Saturday we would be third and probably all creaming ourselves. It is a tight season and we played a crap game with a relatively young side. Beat the Eagles on Friday night and we are back in the 8. Too bad we dont play the Eages 22 times though... Synbad, Melvey and Rambo Stallone all bagging our team - unheard of Is the club youre meant to be supporting.... its about the bigger picture.... If you want to make it personal step outside. But.... I love it when when you talk about big picture stuff on the Monday after a bad loss. Trees???..forest???? The aim of the club was clearly stated at the end of last season - to make the finals this year. We thump Richmond in R1 and everyone is talking top 4 and flags. We are still well on target to make the 8 this year and that is the big picture. "step outside"? lol... good one.. Sorry i am a coward...you would win..for sure.. Anyway the object is to haVE a pattern of play ..if everyone is shit and youre shit and some clubs are going backwards cos theyre really shit and you havent improved anything about how you use your forward line. kicking in... ball movement. and ou scrape into the eight.. you reckon thats progress do you?? |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Mon May 25, 2009 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
The Thomas / Stkilda comparison is about as close as what you can get to us at the moment I will give you that Synbad - but will we learn from it ? |
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| Author: | The Normal One [ Mon May 25, 2009 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
Sydney Blue wrote: but will we learn from it ? We can get Spud to do that. |
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| Author: | BlueMark [ Mon May 25, 2009 11:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
I am a half glass* full type of guy. I like to think we are like Hawthorn three years ago. A young developing team with a young developing coach that occassionally put in a shocker. * of 11yr old scotch to be precise. |
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| Author: | Rocco Iguana [ Mon May 25, 2009 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
MY ROSE COLOURED GLASSES ARE WORKING A TREAT
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| Author: | Synbad [ Mon May 25, 2009 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
Rocco Iguana wrote: MY ROSE COLOURED GLASSES ARE WORKING A TREAT Rose and blue would give you a 'purple haze'... abit like taht isnt it?? |
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| Author: | kezza [ Mon May 25, 2009 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
I dont think we can be compared to Hawthorn of 3 years ago, 3 years ago the Hawks had 2 key position players in Roughead and Franklin coming through. We have no such players. Our full forward is 28 and is not going to improve. We had 3-4 years of early draft picks, including priority picks, but of all the players we drafted during that time, especially 05,06 and 07 who do we really think will be long term 100 game players? There the obvious ones in Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer but it is difficult to find too many more. Grigg and Bower probably will but not too many others. Our premiership window may only be a small one, with Fev only having 3-4 years left and Judd will be past his best, especially with the way he is carrying the team at the moment. The compromised draft will have an impact on all teams so it will be hard to get any descent players into the club. Clubs like Melbourne will probably go past us soon and Essendon* have a list of good young key positions players. If we dont win a flag by 2013 then it will be a long wait until we do. This years draft is so important and we have to get it right. Hope i am wrong but i am not so optimistic as i was before the season started, our list is not as good as we think. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Mon May 25, 2009 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
kezza wrote: I dont think we can be compared to Hawthorn of 3 years ago, 3 years ago the Hawks had 2 key position players in Roughead and Franklin coming through. We have no such players. Our full forward is 28 and is not going to improve. We had 3-4 years of early draft picks, including priority picks, but of all the players we drafted during that time, especially 05,06 and 07 who do we really think will be long term 100 game players? There the obvious ones in Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer but it is difficult to find too many more. Grigg and Bower probably will but not too many others. Our premiership window may only be a small one, with Fev only having 3-4 years left and Judd will be past his best, especially with the way he is carrying the team at the moment. The compromised draft will have an impact on all teams so it will be hard to get any descent players into the club. Clubs like Melbourne will probably go past us soon and Essendon* have a list of good young key positions players. If we dont win a flag by 2013 then it will be a long wait until we do. This years draft is so important and we have to get it right. Hope i am wrong but i am not so optimistic as i was before the season started, our list is not as good as we think. No list is complete.. but its what you do wth what you have thats everything. Our players do ok in an open style game where its man on man talent vs talent...its when we play opposition teams that are drilled that we fall over.... Why cant people see that??? |
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| Author: | blueboys101 [ Mon May 25, 2009 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I bet you all blame Pagan and Elliot for our position still |
SYNBAD i really like reading ur views , what would u do as coach in terms of what style of game we should play? and who would u delist/trade at seasons end? if u cant be bothered abswering those all cool. |
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