TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?

Maybe last year we won some games we shouldn't have won. Like the comebacks against Port, Bulldogs and Lions.

To use the Bombers as an example, they've won games that they shouldn't have by teams having no respect for them and being found out. So Maybe those teams we overrun last year showed us no respect and we caught them out.

This year we aren't winning those games because maybe we got a little ahead of ourselves and didn't show our opposition any respect and now we're the ones getting run over.

Its a concern that we've had some forwards kick bags against us. Morton kicked 5, Bradshaw and Brown 10 between them, Llyod kicked 5 and Roughead 8

Melvey wrote:

But of course our defence is fine cuz Thornton the general is down there leading the way... :roll:

but wait there is still a chance he can be drilled.

Juddy&theKruezers wrote:

Melvey wrote:

But of course our defence is fine cuz Thornton the general is down there leading the way... :roll:

but wait there is still a chance he can be drilled.

you can do the drilling

How can we measure this?

One way is wins/losses. After 7 rounds, in 2008 we were 3-4, and in 2009 we are 3-4 also. So based on wins and losses we haven't gone forwards.

I posted this elsewhere but thought it maybe more relevant to this topic.

I think we have exceptional talent at the top but then we fall away badly.

I assess our list like this.

Top line Consistent contributors:

Judd
Murphy
Gibbs
Kruezer
Jamison
Waite

Close:

Walker
Grigg

Talented but too inconsistent to be part of a top side:

Stevens
Houlihan
Fevola
Hadley
Simpson
Thornton

Try hard but not up to it:

Cloke
Wiggins
Fisher
Setanta
Russell
Edwards
Bentley
Bentick

Potential that must be harnessed and developed:

Bower
Austin
Browne
Anderson
Armfield
Joseph
Yarran
Garlett
Robinson
Hampson
Jacobs
O'Keefe
Tiller
Warnock
Ellard
Hill
Stanton

Question Marks???????? (Just not sure)

Scotland
Carrazzo
Warnock
Bannister
Hartlett
Johnson
Pfieffer

Look at that list and there is a heap of upside. The key will be does the MC have the guts to make the hard decisions and do we have the ability to properly develop our kids??

Time will tell.

cj69 wrote:

Where would you put Eddie?

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Mon May 11, 2009 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
How can we measure this? One way is wins/losses. After 7 rounds, in 2008 we were 3-4, and in 2009 we are 3-4 also. So based on wins and losses we haven't gone forwards. Another way is pts allowed. So far in 2009 we have allowed 651 pts through to the keeper, whereas after 7 rounds in 2008 we had conceded 725 pts. So we are better defensively. This is evident in our narrow losses. Of course that doesn't make me feel all happy and warm inside. Clubs also talk sometimes about how often they let the opposition score 100+ pts in a game. In 2008 in the first 7 rounds we let the opposition score 100+ 4 times, whereas this year we have let this happen 3 times. So marginally better there. Another way is pts scored. So far in 2009 we have scored 764 pts, whereas after 7 rounds in 2008 we had scored 702 pts. So we are better offensively too. Arguably further emphasising our improvement is who we have played. In 2008 you could argue we had played a few more below average teams by Round 7. 2008 : Rich, St.K, Ess, Coll, Melb, Adel, WC 2009 : Rich, Bris, Ess, Syd, Dogs, Haw, Freo Frankly I would expect to see some more wins on the board soon. But I think the club are right to shake the tree a bit this week. Despite the good stats above, I am not sure the lads are turning up to play every week, more like every 2nd or 3rd (the game against Essendon*, I honestly thought Judd and Joseph were the only ones who truly busted their gut). And I think the MC really need to look at their forwardline. Sitting behind the Punt Rd goals against the Hawks in the first qtr two weekends ago, it struck me that two thirds of the players on the forwardline were battlers ie: players with serious question marks on their skills/ability (Cloke, Russell, Carrazzo, Wiggins). Just seems most of the poorer players in our 18 are on the forwardline, and this probably goes part of the way to explaining why we are not taking our opportunities in matches. As good as some of that quartet are in the 'effort' stakes, I don't think you can get by with too many average players on the forwardline. Russell and Wiggins are dodgy set shots at goal. Russell has trouble picking when to dive for a mark or wait for it to bounce. Carrazzo's hands in the air were poor against the Hawks, and his kicking is not his strong suite. Cloke is just average and is also slow. Houlihan is a good kick but is one paced and lacks intensity. Certainly bringing in the skillful Yarran ought to help moving forwards.

Author:	Melvey [ Mon May 11, 2009 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
Maybe last year we won some games we shouldn't have won. Like the comebacks against Port, Bulldogs and Lions. To use the Bombers as an example, they've won games that they shouldn't have by teams having no respect for them and being found out. So Maybe those teams we overrun last year showed us no respect and we caught them out. This year we aren't winning those games because maybe we got a little ahead of ourselves and didn't show our opposition any respect and now we're the ones getting run over. Its a concern that we've had some forwards kick bags against us. Morton kicked 5, Bradshaw and Brown 10 between them, Llyod kicked 5 and Roughead 8

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Mon May 11, 2009 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
Melvey wrote: Maybe last year we won some games we shouldn't have won. Like the comebacks against Port, Bulldogs and Lions. To use the Bombers as an example, they've won games that they shouldn't have by teams having no respect for them and being found out. So Maybe those teams we overrun last year showed us no respect and we caught them out. This year we aren't winning those games because maybe we got a little ahead of ourselves and didn't show our opposition any respect and now we're the ones getting run over. Its a concern that we've had some forwards kick bags against us. Morton kicked 5, Bradshaw and Brown 10 between them, Llyod kicked 5 and Roughead 8 But of course our defence is fine cuz Thornton the general is down there leading the way... but wait there is still a chance he can be drilled.

Author:	The Old Darks [ Mon May 11, 2009 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
1) When Fev decides to turn up, we do way better. He seems to have worked far harder this year and it shows. His influence is disproportionate. When he decides to suck his thumb like on the weekend, we lose. I reckon that this has been his best year so far.If he cannot play with some more consistency, then we need to think the unthinkable and decide that we'd be better off with a less brilliant player who can contribute more to the team effort. 2) We need to give our young defenders more time. Bower, Jameson, Austin, Anderson will be hard to beat in another year or two. They are already doing okay, but we do get spanked by opposition key forwards too consistently. A bit of midfield pressure from AJ, Robbo and other fast kids will help also. 3) Improvement all over the place. Jordan Russell is an example of one player who looks increasingly calm and comfortable under pressure. More than once this weekend I was impressed at his ability to get to the contest and to provide support to his team mates. He also disposed of the ball with improving vision and skill. If he can continue to improve like this and add some other skills like the ability to break more tackles he will start to be a big headache for opposition coaches. There are other players like Eddie Betts who are also coming of age. 4) Confidence. Don't worry, it's coming and when it does we will win flags. Our year is 2011. That means finals this year, top 4 the next. The implication is that there will be ups and downs along the way. Did you see how many uncontested marks we dropped against Freo? And how many times we fumbled when under pressure? These will start to go away when the boys figure out how good they are, and they are good. Only 10% in these 4 places and hello to our next flag......

Author:	Melvey [ Mon May 11, 2009 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
Juddy&theKruezers wrote: Melvey wrote: Maybe last year we won some games we shouldn't have won. Like the comebacks against Port, Bulldogs and Lions. To use the Bombers as an example, they've won games that they shouldn't have by teams having no respect for them and being found out. So Maybe those teams we overrun last year showed us no respect and we caught them out. This year we aren't winning those games because maybe we got a little ahead of ourselves and didn't show our opposition any respect and now we're the ones getting run over. Its a concern that we've had some forwards kick bags against us. Morton kicked 5, Bradshaw and Brown 10 between them, Llyod kicked 5 and Roughead 8 But of course our defence is fine cuz Thornton the general is down there leading the way... but wait there is still a chance he can be drilled. you can do the drilling

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	The Normal One [ Mon May 11, 2009 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
Drillbit T-Bird!!!

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Thu May 14, 2009 3:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
Melvey wrote: Juddy&theKruezers wrote: Melvey wrote: Maybe last year we won some games we shouldn't have won. Like the comebacks against Port, Bulldogs and Lions. To use the Bombers as an example, they've won games that they shouldn't have by teams having no respect for them and being found out. So Maybe those teams we overrun last year showed us no respect and we caught them out. This year we aren't winning those games because maybe we got a little ahead of ourselves and didn't show our opposition any respect and now we're the ones getting run over. Its a concern that we've had some forwards kick bags against us. Morton kicked 5, Bradshaw and Brown 10 between them, Llyod kicked 5 and Roughead 8 But of course our defence is fine cuz Thornton the general is down there leading the way... but wait there is still a chance he can be drilled. you can do the drilling Pass...

Author:	Blue Vain [ Thu May 14, 2009 10:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
Virgin Blue wrote: How can we measure this? One way is wins/losses. After 7 rounds, in 2008 we were 3-4, and in 2009 we are 3-4 also. So based on wins and losses we haven't gone forwards. Yes we were 3-4 at the same stage last year but who had we beaten? Amongst our marvellous conquests was Melbourne and West Coast. The teams that finished last and second last on the ladder. Among our losses was Richmond who beat us by 40 points. (A 20 goal turnaround in 2009) We had an average losing margin of around 5 goals (its about 8 points this year) We've been in a winning position in every game we've played and our close losses include the reigning premiers and a team we haven't beaten for about 6 years! Anyone who doesn't think we've gone forward this year is kidding themselves.

Author:	cj69 [ Thu May 14, 2009 10:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
I posted this elsewhere but thought it maybe more relevant to this topic. I think we have exceptional talent at the top but then we fall away badly. I assess our list like this. Top line Consistent contributors: Judd Murphy Gibbs Kruezer Jamison Waite Close: Walker Grigg Talented but too inconsistent to be part of a top side: Stevens Houlihan Fevola Hadley Simpson Thornton Try hard but not up to it: Cloke Wiggins Fisher Setanta Russell Edwards Bentley Bentick Potential that must be harnessed and developed: Bower Austin Browne Anderson Armfield Joseph Yarran Garlett Robinson Hampson Jacobs O'Keefe Tiller Warnock Ellard Hill Stanton Question Marks???????? (Just not sure) Scotland Carrazzo Warnock Bannister Hartlett Johnson Pfieffer Look at that list and there is a heap of upside. The key will be does the MC have the guts to make the hard decisions and do we have the ability to properly develop our kids?? Time will tell.

Author:	Taff [ Thu May 14, 2009 10:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
cj69 wrote: I posted this elsewhere but thought it maybe more relevant to this topic. I think we have exceptional talent at the top but then we fall away badly. I assess our list like this. Top line Consistent contributors: Judd Murphy Gibbs Kruezer Jamison Waite Close: Walker Grigg Talented but too inconsistent to be part of a top side: Stevens Houlihan Fevola Hadley Simpson Thornton Try hard but not up to it: Cloke Wiggins Fisher Setanta Russell Edwards Bentley Bentick Potential that must be harnessed and developed: Bower Austin Browne Anderson Armfield Joseph Yarran Garlett Robinson Hampson Jacobs O'Keefe Tiller Warnock Ellard Hill Stanton Question Marks???????? (Just not sure) Scotland Carrazzo Warnock Bannister Hartlett Johnson Pfieffer Look at that list and there is a heap of upside. The key will be does the MC have the guts to make the hard decisions and do we have the ability to properly develop our kids?? Time will tell. Where would you put Eddie?

Author:	cj69 [ Thu May 14, 2009 10:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Have we improved since last year and how can we improve?
Taff wrote: cj69 wrote: I posted this elsewhere but thought it maybe more relevant to this topic. I think we have exceptional talent at the top but then we fall away badly. I assess our list like this. Top line Consistent contributors: Judd Murphy Gibbs Kruezer Jamison Waite Close: Walker Grigg Talented but too inconsistent to be part of a top side: Stevens Houlihan Fevola Hadley Simpson Thornton Try hard but not up to it: Cloke Wiggins Fisher Setanta Russell Edwards Bentley Bentick Potential that must be harnessed and developed: Bower Austin Browne Anderson Armfield Joseph Yarran Garlett Robinson Hampson Jacobs O'Keefe Tiller Warnock Ellard Hill Stanton Question Marks???????? (Just not sure) Scotland Carrazzo Warnock Bannister Hartlett Johnson Pfieffer Look at that list and there is a heap of upside. The key will be does the MC have the guts to make the hard decisions and do we have the ability to properly develop our kids?? Time will tell. Where would you put Eddie? He's an interesting one Eddie. Plays a very hard position to be consistent but has tremendous ability To me he is Close but maybe needs to develop some more time in the midfield?

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