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Thornton (although he's not far off the top group)

AJ Jammo Bower
Grigg Austin Johnson
Army Gibbs Murphy
Yarran Kruiser Waite
Robbo Fev Betts

Warnock Judd Walker

Simmo Hammer Garlett Wiggo

em. Ando Russell

is not a bad side but its young. People are getting ahead of where we are at. Play that side and we will be bottom 4, but as these kids develop they will replace some of the older guys and we will get better. Murph today is twice what he was 2 years ago. You cannot hurry time, not even for the really good ones.

To me, the side was all the better for the omission of Houlihan, Setanta, Bentley, and the injury to Carazzo on the weekend. I'm not sure any would have made enough difference for us to win, and it was better to lose by getting games into Yarran, Hampson, and Austin. It would be nice to continue on that path this week by finding games for Browne, Robbo, and Anderson at the expense of a few of the older players

Structures are useless if certain players are inconsistant in effort.

Inconsistant players = deadwood

How could you know if we had a structure? That bloody Ratten had their handpasses landing a meter behind their teamates.

Got to have structures and roles for sure ..also got to have player professionalism.

Author:	cj69 [ Mon May 11, 2009 9:49 am ]
Post subject:	'DEADWOOD'
Lets be realistic, we are a long way from challenging the top sides. This year we have beaten: Richmond (who are crap and we were primed for round one) Brisbane (who are under a new coach and learning and we effectively played 20 good minutes of footy) Bulldogs (who are average at best and struggling when we beat them) We have lost to: Essendon* (Young and improving but average) Hawthorn (Struggling) Sydney (Average and just strangled us) Fremantle (see Essendon*) Take Judd & Murphy out of the side and we would be a long way off. This year is the last chance to go to the draft uncomprimised for a long time. We need to decide now on a few players and play the kids for the rest of the season and get a proper assessment of them, It is time to clear out the 'DEADWOOD'. IMO the papers of the following need to be stamped: Wiggins Cloke Bentley Stevens Hartlett Edwards Setanta Bentick Houlihan Fisher They all offer bits and pieces but not one of them has the package to be a top level AFL footballer. For the rest of the season we need to play: Anderson Austin Browne Grigg Hampson Armfield Ellard Robinson Garlett Armfield Johnson Give them the rest of the season no matter what. Make an informed assessment and get game time into them. Tell them to take the game on and bring some excitment back to the club.

Author:	The Duke [ Mon May 11, 2009 10:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
I don't disagree with the theory, 69er. But I'd attack it slightly differently. We've got a group of very good footballers, several average, and a group with huge potential and 6 that are not good enough. I'd build the team around; Judd Murphy Gibbs Kreuzer Waite Jamison Let it be known that those 6 aree the pillars of our team. They are the foundations. Then we've got; Yarran Hampson Betts Robinson Bower Austin Warnock as players with huge upside. They could form the structure that takes us all the way. For me we've got another half dozen or so who have to decide now if they want to be part of our future success; Fev Thornton (although he's not far off the top group) Simmo Stevo Fisher Carrazzo These are the players that still have currency and we should be considering their futures at the end of 2009. Hopefully they will be able to shake their issues and give us something for the remainder of the year, but some of these will have to go. Then we've got the Wiggos ( ) Russell, Cloke, Hartlett, Setanta, Edwards etc that won't have a future. As for the coaches, well, they have responsibilities also. If they can't get their team up and motivated, they will have questions to answer as well.

Author:	marciblue [ Mon May 11, 2009 10:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
I had my doubts about season 2009 as I thought we simply had too many holes in our list to really contemplate being a serious top 8 contender There is still no genuine KP forward to help Fev out and we need this dimension to improve. Cloke is a poor mans Whitnall and he was discarded as being unable to play in todays game a couple of years back. I agree Kreuzer could eventually offer something there but how much of a burden do we want to place on this kid! Already carrying the majority of the workload in the ruck at 19!!! It is pathetic AFAIC. I genuinely worry about the long term impact on this kid. Also, we need a strong KP backman at HB. Jamo is a FB, Bower more a flanker at this stage and T-bird about the same. Waite offers more further up the ground but isn't the pack marking tall at either end that we need. Austin could be the answer but once again is still too young and underdeveloped. Cant expect him to do much this year. Unfortunately for Hadley his injuries may have consigned him to be a yesterdays footballer. Could he turn it around like Hasleby? Not sure but we need that grunt mid because our clearance work suffers at times. And a competitive 2nd ruck! Hampson again could be helpful and I know Warnock is in the wing but Shaun couldn’t cope with the pace at the top level on Saturday. And that monster Sandilands had to find his best form on Saturday like a lot of players do weekly against us!!! Cloke’s a goer but he is almost a liability ATM. Stevens – OMG, I can’t ignore your deficiencies anymore. He was horrible on the weekend. The game can go past players very quickly. The neck injury came at a bad time and has required plenty of rehab to heal. Maybe the time out and time to get going again has meant that he is now unable to do ALL that is required and he doesn’t have the go to standout. There are other but they are already discussed above. We need to draw a line through a few and assess our prospects realistically because I am so disappointed with some of our efforts this year.

Author:	The Duke [ Mon May 11, 2009 10:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
I like the Hampson development. He's going to be a very good 2nd option I think, behind Warnock (if he developes as we hope). That would free Kreuz up as a CHF that would be very hard to stop. His strong, long arms would be almost impossible for your average CHB. He's got speed and ground ability that not many can match. I agree that we could be risking serious long term damage for very short term gain. I don't think the ruckwork cost us the game on Saturday. We still smacked them in the i50s and scoring shots and possessions. We just don't seem to have an efficient gameplan in execution and delivery inside our F50. The defence and most of the midfield did their job AFAIC.

Author:	dannyboy [ Mon May 11, 2009 10:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
AJ Jammo Bower Grigg Austin Johnson Army Gibbs Murphy Yarran Kruiser Waite Robbo Fev Betts Warnock Judd Walker Simmo Hammer Garlett Wiggo em. Ando Russell is not a bad side but its young. People are getting ahead of where we are at. Play that side and we will be bottom 4, but as these kids develop they will replace some of the older guys and we will get better. Murph today is twice what he was 2 years ago. You cannot hurry time, not even for the really good ones.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

'DEADWOOD' http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24751	Page 1 of 5

Author:	The Duke [ Mon May 11, 2009 11:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
We're percentage from bottom 4 now DB. We've got a slim chance this week, followed by a trip to Adelaide, then WC, Brions in Bris and the Aints here. We could be looking at bottom 4 very soon if they don't pull their fingers out.

Author:	Navy Blue Horse [ Mon May 11, 2009 11:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
The Duke wrote: Thornton (although he's not far off the top group) He's miles away IMO. mentally scarred from the bad old days.

Author:	blueboys101 [ Mon May 11, 2009 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
agree with the op , we have plenty of deadwood but coming from so far back its hard to delist everyone in 1 year u weed them out slowly bringing the young guys on, i expect next year our list will look much better added with more games in to our young kids. players like houlihan and stevens i would retain for 1-2 more years just to add some experience but the rest get rid of them and i would also add bannister to the cull list. gotta be patient people it takes time

Author:	Molly [ Mon May 11, 2009 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
It's an interesting choice... I think the Hawthorn game showed us that we are 6-10 players away from being able to regularly compete against the best sides. Problem is that replacing those 6-10 is a process that takes time, and involves a few extra losses along the way. It is heresy to suggest it around here, but I can't help but think that the 'shape' of our list would have looked better without the Judd trade. That's not to say he hasn't proven invaluable in getting guys like Murphy to the top of their games - and I am delighted he is at Carlton, but it must be acknowledged that the shape of the list has been at least slightly adversely affected by the Judd trade. To me, the side was all the better for the omission of Houlihan, Setanta, Bentley, and the injury to Carazzo on the weekend. I'm not sure any would have made enough difference for us to win, and it was better to lose by getting games into Yarran, Hampson, and Austin. It would be nice to continue on that path this week by finding games for Browne, Robbo, and Anderson at the expense of a few of the older players who are struggling to make a reasonable contribution.

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon May 11, 2009 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
dannyboy wrote: AJ Jammo Bower Grigg Austin Johnson Army Gibbs Murphy Yarran Kruiser Waite Robbo Fev Betts Warnock Judd Walker Simmo Hammer Garlett Wiggo em. Ando Russell is not a bad side but its young. People are getting ahead of where we are at. Play that side and we will be bottom 4, but as these kids develop they will replace some of the older guys and we will get better. Murph today is twice what he was 2 years ago. You cannot hurry time, not even for the really good ones. I agree with what you are saying DB, but.... Wiggo....he's the future Maybe the Wiggler of round 1 & 2 is, but I think that was just him peaking at the time. Jonno hasn't proven anything other than he can kick well ....well usually does on his left. Has he got a right foot or a right hand?

Author:	frank dardew [ Mon May 11, 2009 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
Disappointed by loss on Saturday night as I was with Essendon* loss and perhaps Im too optimistic but I dont think we are that far off provided we play consistently throughout 4 quarters -only done twice perhaps against Tigers and Bullies - play with requisite intensity - only really done 3 0r perhaps 4 times against Hawks Tiges Bulldogs Brions - make the most of our opportunities scoring and otherwise perhaps twice Richmond and Bulldogs Shocking that we have lost 4 games under 16 points and underlines need for consistency/intensity Agree some of our players wear the scars of previous belting or arent going to take us forward and thats why Yarran Hampson Grigg must be preferred to cloke setanta bentley et al Having said that we now have a decent injury list Walker Warnock Grigg Carrazzo all most likely in best 22 PFeiffer jACOBS bentick (all could be called up to play seniors Also as other have pointed out Robinson and Gartlett look lively and we should get as much game time in them as possible Both showed enough in VFL last week

Author:	blueboygibbo [ Mon May 11, 2009 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
First thing we need to get rid of the slogan .... "THEY KNOW WE'RE COMING" I am sick of the 20+ text messages after every loss. And yes !!!! they all spell the "C" word with a "U" in it !!! I have no comeback when it happens.

Author:	Humpers [ Mon May 11, 2009 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
Molly wrote: To me, the side was all the better for the omission of Houlihan, Setanta, Bentley, and the injury to Carazzo on the weekend. I'm not sure any would have made enough difference for us to win, and it was better to lose by getting games into Yarran, Hampson, and Austin. It would be nice to continue on that path this week by finding games for Browne, Robbo, and Anderson at the expense of a few of the older players I agree. Even though it was disappointing to lose we need to fastrack the development of the likes of Yarran, Hampson and Austin. I hope the MC can fit Browne into the 22 next week as he is a quality young player IMO. I'm not sure about Anderson as his kicking is poor.

Author:	Synbad [ Mon May 11, 2009 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
We have some non champions or average players that are no better or worse than some no champions and and average players on every team list... Its how they fit into the structures that makes or breaks ...

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Author:	budzy [ Mon May 11, 2009 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
Structures are useless if certain players are inconsistant in effort. Inconsistant players = deadwood

Author:	club29 [ Mon May 11, 2009 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
How could you know if we had a structure? That bloody Ratten had their handpasses landing a meter behind their teamates.

Author:	Synbad [ Mon May 11, 2009 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
budzy wrote: Structures are useless if certain players are inconsistant in effort. Inconsistant players = deadwood Players are inconsistent if theyre are undrilled to do what needs to be done under a set group of circumstances usually... If you think our bottom 6 are more useless than Essendons Sydneys and Freos .. God help us!!! You play within structures to allow you to play closer to your strengths and to maximise efforts and miinimise negatives... No structures .. it all comes tumbling down at the bottom end...especially... Thats obvious... Same with everything in life...

Author:	budzy [ Mon May 11, 2009 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
Got to have structures and roles for sure ..also got to have player professionalism.

Author:	Synbad [ Mon May 11, 2009 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
club29 wrote: How could you know if we had a structure? That bloody Ratten had their handpasses landing a meter behind their teamates. I actually thought we were handpassing to players in terrible positions... Momentum must be going forward when going forward for best results.. not to people standing still or in shithouse positions... Its not the handballs... its where theyre set up to receive and then give off again... The handballs were often terrible cos they shouldnt have been handballs in the first place... Everyone is looking for someone else to take the bull by the horns cos they dont know how to do it... Sure you can say AFL footballers cant handball.. and our recruiters and developers are shit.. and ahave players that are completey unfit for footy.. and Freos are fit for footy.... It has to be one or the other..

Author:	Synbad [ Mon May 11, 2009 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 'DEADWOOD'
budzy wrote: Got to have structures and roles for sure ..also got to have player professionalism. Both of which the club is in charge of yes..???? and can be improved!!!