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What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
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Author:  Donstuie [ Sun May 10, 2009 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
Like what happens most times we lose, there's a million and one reasons (some imagined, some actual) given in a haphazard manner that it makes it seem as though we have a list of problems that extends longer than a Star Wars crawl. But can anyone list what our major deficiencies are, preferably in the order of importance, and if possible what can be done to fix them?
Author:  kezza [ Sun May 10, 2009 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
The obvious deficency is our forward line. We rely too much on Fev (thats obvious) and despite Ratts saying that is something we will try to change this year it isnt happening. We had the chance to remedy this in last years draft. At the time of the draft we heard the recruiters say that they would pick the best talent available yet recently Carlton said that they wanted a crumbing foward so drafted Yarran. I am in no way being critical of Yarran and i hope he does go on to become a great player but wouldnt have drafting a key position forward been the better option? Look at Jack Zeibell, surely he would have been the better option. with Fev being in his late 20's we have noone to replace him in the years to come.
Our backline is still brittle, it has improved in recent years but a strong defender would be useful.
The other weakness is our lack of pace, we have very few players who can run and carry the ball, which is why we so much trouble against Essendon*.
There is going to be no quick fix especially now with the CG17 draft concessions coming in and we are still a long off being a top side.
Author:  Blue Vain [ Sun May 10, 2009 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
kezza wrote:
The obvious deficency is our forward line. We rely too much on Fev (thats obvious) and despite Ratts saying that is something we will try to change this year it isnt happening. We had the chance to remedy this in last years draft. At the time of the draft we heard the recruiters say that they would pick the best talent available yet recently Carlton said that they wanted a crumbing foward so drafted Yarran. I am in no way being critical of Yarran and i hope he does go on to become a great player but wouldnt have drafting a key position forward been the better option? Look at Jack Zeibell, surely he would have been the better option.


One sentence you want a KPP and the next you want Zeibell. :confused:
Is it a full moon or something?
Author:  kezza [ Sun May 10, 2009 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
Okay, then maybe Zeibell is a goal kicking midfielder, but he kicks goals. Point taken.
Author:  AIRCAV [ Sun May 10, 2009 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
perhaps some fans who acknowledge the long term goals and accept some short term hiccups.
Author:  Pafloyul [ Sun May 10, 2009 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
If your speaking purely about our list...just a few mobile talls who can take a contested mark.

I don't care what position they play ostensibly as juniors as long as they are 192cm+ (at the very least), mobile and can play an 'inside' kind of role. We'll work them into the side somehow.

I also wouldn't mind a modern Peter Dean style player.
Author:  dannyboy [ Sun May 10, 2009 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
1: Another 2 years into Kruise

2: Another year into Gibbs

3: another 2/3 years into Yarran/Robbo/Garlett/Austin

4: Warnock to play football

5: Half back play maker
Author:  Pafloyul [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
dannyboy wrote:
1: Another 2 years into Kruise

2: Another year into Gibbs

3: another 2/3 years into Yarran/Robbo/Garlett/Austin

4: Warnock to play football

5: Half back play maker


Fair enough, but don't you think that we are down at least one tall, two if you think that Fev won't be up by the time the draft is back to normal.

If we play Waite up forward we are awfully light down back (forgive my awkward politeness) and vice-versa.
Author:  scottopee [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
A lack of quality KP players. Sick of hearing that we are fine with the likes of Cloke Setanta Hartlett Fisher as KP options. Hopefully in the next couple of drafts we get lucky with some talls.
Author:  true_blue3 [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
1-quality key forward

DAYLIGHT

2-quality big defender (194cm+)
3-quality in and under midfielder (ala sewell, lewis, kerr, mitchell, cross, black, kirk etc.)

DAYLIGHT

4-good tap ruckman (hampson not strong/smart enough, kreuzer lack of height/strength/leap, ohailpin lack of height/brains, cloke lack of height, jacobs lack of height/leap). hopefully warnock can fil the void here next here.
Author:  Kouta [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
true_blue3 wrote:
4-good tap ruckman (hampson not strong/smart enough, kreuzer lack of height/strength/leap, ohailpin lack of height/brains, cloke lack of height, jacobs lack of height/leap). hopefully warnock can fil the void here next here.

Sandilands.

Did Kreuzer lack the height and leap against Leuenberger?

The kid is 19 and leading the ruck.

Give us the spoon. :roll:
Author:  Kouta [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
kezza wrote:
The obvious deficency is our forward line. We rely too much on Fev (thats obvious) and despite Ratts saying that is something we will try to change this year it isnt happening. We had the chance to remedy this in last years draft. At the time of the draft we heard the recruiters say that they would pick the best talent available yet recently Carlton said that they wanted a crumbing foward so drafted Yarran. I am in no way being critical of Yarran and i hope he does go on to become a great player but wouldnt have drafting a key position forward been the better option? Look at Jack Zeibell, surely he would have been the better option. with Fev being in his late 20's we have noone to replace him in the years to come.
Our backline is still brittle, it has improved in recent years but a strong defender would be useful.
The other weakness is our lack of pace, we have very few players who can run and carry the ball, which is why we so much trouble against Essendon*.
There is going to be no quick fix especially now with the CG17 draft concessions coming in and we are still a long off being a top side.

Carlton can add Grigg and Walker plus Robinson and Yarran with two more pre-seasons under their belt to that team.
Author:  Pafloyul [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
BlueIce wrote:
true_blue3 wrote:
4-good tap ruckman (hampson not strong/smart enough, kreuzer lack of height/strength/leap, ohailpin lack of height/brains, cloke lack of height, jacobs lack of height/leap). hopefully warnock can fil the void here next here.

Sandilands.

Did Kreuzer lack the height and leap against Leuenberger?

The kid is 19 and leading the ruck.

Give us the spoon. :roll:


Did he say that? :? Give the guy some leeway to have an opinion. I read it as a slightly off-hand comment given all the "daylight" that came before it.
Author:  Kouta [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
Pafloyul wrote:
BlueIce wrote:
true_blue3 wrote:
4-good tap ruckman (hampson not strong/smart enough, kreuzer lack of height/strength/leap, ohailpin lack of height/brains, cloke lack of height, jacobs lack of height/leap). hopefully warnock can fil the void here next here.

Sandilands.

Did Kreuzer lack the height and leap against Leuenberger?

The kid is 19 and leading the ruck.

Give us the spoon. :roll:


Did he say that? :? Give the guy some leeway to have an opinion. I read it as a slightly off-hand comment given all the "daylight" before it.

His comment on our rucks was pretty poor.

The spoon comment relates to the chicken little mindset of a few vocal supporters who want to level the joint to ground zero and start all over again.

I'd love to have their hand on the tiller. :yikes:
Author:  The_Cranium [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
forward line if fevola doesn't fire is dysfunctional. KP forward is #1. KP defender isn't far behind. Ruck has been addressed. problem is that the young blokes need more time and 206 can't get on the park.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
Games are won and lost in the midfield.

What we need most of all is some toughness in the middle and everyone chasing and tackling. Someone to look after Murphy and Judd, provide some blocks and get some contested footy. Let Judd and Murphy be the ones who finish off and deliver into the forwardline. It would be amazing to see how much better our forwards look when they get some decent delivery and how effective our backmen are when there's pressure in the midfield.

I said it a couple of years ago, we're not really going anywhere until Gibbs and Murphy reach a point where they're able to exert some leadership. Judd can't do that on his own and Simmo has been battling his own forms worries to really exert any.
Author:  jimmae [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
What we need are midfield and forward setups that aren't the tactical equivalent of a children's picture book.

We need another developed genuine ruckman to partner with Kreuzer, which hopefully Warnock will provide later this year.
We need to find a way to keep Waite forward or get another bloke to play key-forward.
We need someone on the coaching panel to recognise that we were never going to get over the top of Sandilands, and also realise that we are going to lose more than we'll win in ruck contests, and to structure stoppages accordingly.
We need a bigger focus on how we as a team attack the footy when it's free in the middle, and the importance of recognising when to take possession to dispose, and when to tap to advantage of a team-mate.

Take out that our work rate was always going to be down after a hotly contested game the week before and we were still impotent when in possession.
Author:  Pafloyul [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
BlueIce wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
BlueIce wrote:
true_blue3 wrote:
4-good tap ruckman (hampson not strong/smart enough, kreuzer lack of height/strength/leap, ohailpin lack of height/brains, cloke lack of height, jacobs lack of height/leap). hopefully warnock can fil the void here next here.

Sandilands.

Did Kreuzer lack the height and leap against Leuenberger?

The kid is 19 and leading the ruck.

Give us the spoon. :roll:


Did he say that? :? Give the guy some leeway to have an opinion. I read it as a slightly off-hand comment given all the "daylight" before it.

His comment on our rucks was pretty poor.

The spoon comment relates to the chicken little mindset of a few vocal supporters who want to level the joint to ground zero and start all over again.

I'd love to have their hand on the tiller. :yikes:


Yes it was but it was given as a last resort. To me he is kind of making a casual comment, not very smart but given as a kind of an emotional response to his sense of disappointment. Sarcasm really. I doubt if he really thinks it is necessary do deconstruct the whole side. If he does, then, my apologies.

However, I sometimes wonder myself. We are a funny side at the moment; we can appear like either latent world beaters or no-hopers depending what angle you take.
Author:  Melvey [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
To much Dead wood and passengers.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Unfortunately the players who need to step up and take this club further are those who been part of our worst period in history and bad habits stick.

If i had it my way the importance for instant success should not have been the main focus. Last year we had a very good opportunity to blood and play as many kids as possible and get as many games into them. You can boost moral within a club just like Matty Knights has without being so defensive focused and negative

I would have put a line through Cloke, Wiggo, Houla, Carrazzo and Fisher last year and played the youth.

Interesting to note that on this mornings footy show it was mentioned that Fev had said that the preseason was all about defensive pressure. I ask if the entire focus is on 'not having teams score against us' doesn't that portray a somewhat negative mind set to the playing group.

The Saints and i thin it was Dal Santo who said they hardly did any tackling training over the summer. You know you have to tackle, no need to practice it
Author:  dannyboy [ Sun May 10, 2009 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What are our deficiencies, and their order of importance?
Pafloyul wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
1: Another 2 years into Kruise

2: Another year into Gibbs

3: another 2/3 years into Yarran/Robbo/Garlett/Austin

4: Warnock to play football

5: Half back play maker


Fair enough, but don't you think that we are down at least one tall, two if you think that Fev won't be up by the time the draft is back to normal.

If we play Waite up forward we are awfully light down back (forgive my awkward politeness) and vice-versa.


I think we a lot closer than people realize but the results will not happen overnight.
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