TalkingCarlton :: View topic - How long should it take?

So it seems we are in agreement that the process takes a few seasons...good.. so to the ranters who keep insisting that we will not be a good side until we are well drilled...uhm :roll:

....well yeah we know that!!! But we are on the way to getting there and that is what is important.

You're right ...its all about perspective. So which way do we chose to look at it...glass half empty or half full??? Do you look at the ladder and see we are in fourth position and be excited about the prospect of entrenching ourselves in the 8...or do you lurk waiting for us to lose to spill the beans about how un-drilled we are.

It's all perspective with a little bit of reality thrown in as well...IMO we are now on the right track lacking only in experience (the side is very young) and consistency. Once we begin to string a few wins together 3, 4 and 5 in a row...then we will have arrived officially..and that is not too far away.

Could depend on how well embrace Free Trade.

If we pick up a another gun midfielder and a key fwd it will make a hell of a difference.

Also, a Ruckman would be good.

i can't remember a season so "even" or devoid of quality past the cats, hawks and maybe saints, there are like 10 other teams playing for 5 places it seems.

i reckon we we are equal with the pies,saints and power in terms of where we finish.

we could end up top four, if we dont take our chances we could miss out althogether.
sgtanges season.

i just hope we start really believingin our selves and back oursleves in the contest.

we could do some damage if we get on a roll

Gotta have a plan thats not 'la la' when you enter games...and your players need to understand their roles.

Its a weak season....

You can achieve heaps in a season like this... or you can make excuse after excuse to cover up for your own indaquecies

Synbad wrote:

Who should be our new coach then, as you obviously don't think Ratt's is up to it?

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Thu May 07, 2009 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:	How long should it take?
How long should it take to turn a rabble (which we were for the last 7 years) into a well drilled unit? The reason I ask is that I hear a lot on this site from some (they know who they are) that we are not well drilled...this is of course is shouted out the loudest after a loss no matter how close the result. Fair enough. But its time to elaborate. How long does it take to turn a team around into this well sort after well drilled unit. Geelong are well drilled...How long did it take Bomber to achieve this??? Hawthorn are well drilled...Has Clarko got them there quicker than the cats???? If so why?? What about the Power...are they well drilled. It seemed Choco got them there in '04 and then suddenly after that they werent well drilled for a couple of seasons and then got the drilling feeling back again in '07 only to get pumped in the big one. I've focused on the Cats and Hawks mainly because they did win a flag after achieving the pinnacle of being classified as well drilled and for me thats all that counts. Some may say the saints and pies are well drilled but both have fallen short of what its all about so neither interests me in the least. Now most importantly how long should it take Ratten to get this side so well drilled that a flag will only be a formality. He is effectively early in his second season...is by now enough time??? I'd like to here your thoughts...

Author:	DocSherrin III [ Thu May 07, 2009 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
It's a great question - but keep in mind that we're critical of our own side far more than others...it's only natural. We're becoming well drilled...but it's gonna be a slower process than some think. I say this for a few reasons. I don't think Ratten and his assistants have settled on an exact gameplan yet. Keep in mind too that you probably need to preach your gameplan to individuals who can learn and adapt quickly or to kids coming into the system straight into your style. Out of this, some get left behind and we have a few in the team who are a little slow to adapt, lazy, or haven't yet got used to the pace / experience of senior footy. Geelong is perfect case in point. Once you get a combination of adaptability and sufficient experience (44 games in my book) and skill across every line - then it should click into gear. For the Blues, by this time next year we should be - and be regarded - as a very well drilled team. Personally, I think we're ahead of schedule when we have the footy...but we're behind schedule when we don't.

Author:	jake_h03 [ Fri May 08, 2009 12:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
I think... There will be highs and lows. There will be games where we play as good as anyone in the comp, which will be a sign of what is to come. This will be when everyone thinks we are already there (when really we're still coming). And then there will be lulls where we fall to pieces, and because everyone thought we were already there, TCer's will be on here predicting the end of the world, saying x players aren't up to it, Ratts has to go, and so on. But we will get there. Please note, every good game we play is a preview of where we are going. WE ARE NOT THERE YET. These will be followed by some poor games from time to time. But I have full confidence in our list and our coach to take us to number 17. I also think our inclusions this weekend are a big step to where we are going. We're lacking a genuine sized KP defender. We've been getting by, but we've had no flexibility. Even if Austin doesn't do a lot, as he develops, he will change our whole structure. No longer will Thornton have to play above his size. Waite will be allowed to play his natural attacking game. He could be used where ever we need him at the time. We need 2 genuine ruckman, not one. It will be Krooz and Hampson/206. Either of these 2 in will also allow Krooz to spend more time forward, and possibly replace Cloke, who hasnt looked up to it. This will give us 2 genuine tall targets, Fev and Krooz, and with Betts in AA form and Yarran coming in, the forward could quickly become elite. (would love Walks on a flank) I'm Excited

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Fri May 08, 2009 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
So it seems we are in agreement that the process takes a few seasons...good.. so to the ranters who keep insisting that we will not be a good side until we are well drilled...uhm ....well yeah we know that!!! But we are on the way to getting there and that is what is important.

Author:	Belisarius [ Fri May 08, 2009 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
Juddy&theKruezers wrote: So it seems we are in agreement that the process takes a few seasons...good.. so to the ranters who keep insisting that we will not be a good side until we are well drilled...uhm ....well yeah we know that!!! But we are on the way to getting there and that is what is important. I guess it depends on how you look at the world. We probably should have won one or two more and realistically could have been sitting pretty on 6-0. On the other hand you could argue that we are two games up on last year, due to winning our firstup games against the Tigers and the Lions this time round. The games we have lost, we lost last year and we have beaten the Doggies again. It just depends on how you look at things

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	cj69 [ Fri May 08, 2009 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
Could depend on how well embrace Free Trade. If we pick up a another gun midfielder and a key fwd it will make a hell of a difference. Also, a Ruckman would be good.

Author:	Effes [ Fri May 08, 2009 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
History has shown it takes teams a number of years playing in finals before they can win a premiership...often they will fail when many expect them to win the flag. The finals experience is enormous. Geelong stuffed it up in 05, Carlton in 94, Sydney in 03, Essendon* in 99, North Melbourne made the finals for 3 or so years before finally winning it in 96. Port Adelaide got the choker tag after continually failing in September. I would love us to win a final this year but know it will probably be 2011/12 before we are a serious chance, and that is if everything falls into place in regard to players continuing to develop, injuries.

Author:	Belisarius [ Fri May 08, 2009 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
Juddy&theKruezers wrote: You're right ...its all about perspective. So which way do we chose to look at it...glass half empty or half full??? Do you look at the ladder and see we are in fourth position and be excited about the prospect of entrenching ourselves in the 8...or do you lurk waiting for us to lose to spill the beans about how un-drilled we are. It's all perspective with a little bit of reality thrown in as well...IMO we are now on the right track lacking only in experience (the side is very young) and consistency. Once we begin to string a few wins together 3, 4 and 5 in a row...then we will have arrived officially..and that is not too far away. I can understand the disappointment though, as we could so easily have won them all. A couple of shattering losses there, but if you keep on dealing in coulda and shouldas you will go mad. We still have a few things to iron out and a few positions to fill, either by youngsters stepping up or additions to the club. Once we make finals we will still need to work out who can handle that type of heat. Some will disappoint and others will surprise. Even high intensity home and away games (which we have had far too few of anyway) aren't quite the same. I think perhaps that a few bought into the media hype and have also under-rated some other sides in what promises to be an even year. Others are just impatient after years of disappointment, which again is understandable. It's been tough I have seen signs of improvement and I expect us to make the eight. To me that is a win

Author:	club29 [ Fri May 08, 2009 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
It will take time to dot the i's and cross the t's. There is a list of 100 things players have to learn. Rather than bombard them with the list and expect them all to understand it and implement it after one or two pre seasons any good team builder will slowly introduce things to make sure everything getrs understood. We are missing the defend at all costs mentallity that the saints have this year. When that gets in and we get things like kickins under control we will be right in with a chance. One or two more pre seasons for us. Go Blues !

Author:	AK43 [ Fri May 08, 2009 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
cj69 wrote: Could depend on how well embrace Free Trade. If we pick up a another gun midfielder and a key fwd it will make a hell of a difference. Also, a Ruckman would be good. Warnock, Kreuzer, Hampson and Jacobs not enough? I think Kreuzer is a gun ruckman already. Forget the fact he's 19 and should have a lot more improvement in him as he fills out more, his tapwork is already fantastic and his work around the ground at times astonishing for a 200cm boy. I know we're light on for key forwards, but I think the most important names here are Warnock and Austin. Warnock because he can release Kreuzer forward at times where he'll be a nightmare matchup. Austin because if he can take a key back post he'll possibly release Waite forward or because he may turn into a KP forward himself. Unfortunately I think we can write off Edwards and Hartlett as KP forwards, and probably need to have this as a draft priority. In answer to the original question I think this is still a development season and we need to be patient with what is a very young team. Although reading the response to last week's loss you'd think it was 2005, and our bottom 6 are lucky to be on AFL lists, we stuck with the reigning premiers in a finals-type game and will only be better for the experience.

Author:	thegezman [ Fri May 08, 2009 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
i love how ratts is going about it, he is young enough to relate to the lads but is hard enough to make the tough calls on players. he is all about reward for effort it seems, beacuse lets face it that's he he started out. guys like houla and scotland in and out of the team for blokes like benltley and joseph and garlett who if we spoke about 6 months ago as having a role you would scoff at. this transition period is harder to watch than when we were shite, because blind freddy can see we are getting pretty close to being a very serious force, i think in a way thats why i have taken our losses so well...it feels like the clam before the storm. seriously, if we dont end up top 4, then we haven't lived up to where we probably should be. but thats fine, I dont think this year is our time just yet, but if we end up top 4 who knows, maybe we could jag one early like the hawks. may not have done them any good in the long term though, but still a flag is a flag. they can't take it off you. it nice to be back and have some expectations. shite i haven't felt this feeling for so long.

Author:	thegezman [ Fri May 08, 2009 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
cj69 wrote: Could depend on how well embrace Free Trade. If we pick up a another gun midfielder and a key fwd it will make a hell of a difference. Also, a Ruckman would be good. you serious?, we need a AA quality KPP backman. just for a general sturcture point of view. midfield is solid and will only get better. half of em still babies. forward line is a massive massive massive improvment on recent seasons. this time next year our midfield will be up their with the best, maybe not quite the depth of geelong but they a few of them aren't exaclty that young. can they sustain the standard they have set? if they win the flag this year who knows? perhaps not.

Author:	Blue4ever [ Sat May 09, 2009 12:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
Im a fairly patient however after watching the bombers tonight I'm pissed off. I know that both sides are fairly even however we should be at least a five goal better side. We were so close last week however we lost. It was evident during the game that Hawthorn are very good at zoning and watching Carlton trying to clear the ball out after they scored a behind was embarrasing. We held on the ball and tried to use clear possesion to clear the ball from defence. The Bombers showed us tonight how to beat the bigger/stronger boddies, run, run and flowering run and take them on. I kept on saying to mate last week during the game that the Hawks were not playing well and the only way for us to win was to take them on ala Armfield at the end. We fell in to their game plan. Instead of bringing in pace against the Hawks we bring in a bigger body but slow player in Bentley to match them instead of bringing in a player to beat them. We lost to the Bombers and game we should not have lost. We lost to Sydney playing the same way, they clogged us up, we didn't take them on. The Bombers have modelled their game against the best in Geelong and that is to run and break the lines and in effect beat the zone which most clubs play. I do believe we are coming (after all we are in the top however we still have a bit of work to do between the ears because our list is BETER than the bombers however they are playing smarter football and using their strengths rather than trying to match it with other teams. It looks like the bombers have targeted players in the draft that can get their own football and I look forward to watching Yarran tomorrow.

Author:	Synbad [ Sat May 09, 2009 12:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
Gotta have a plan thats not 'la la' when you enter games...and your players need to understand their roles. Its a weak season.... You can achieve heaps in a season like this... or you can make excuse after excuse to cover up for your own indaquecies

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Author:	thegezman [ Sat May 09, 2009 12:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
i can't remember a season so "even" or devoid of quality past the cats, hawks and maybe saints, there are like 10 other teams playing for 5 places it seems. i reckon we we are equal with the pies,saints and power in terms of where we finish. we could end up top four, if we dont take our chances we could miss out althogether. sgtanges season. i just hope we start really believingin our selves and back oursleves in the contest. we could do some damage if we get on a roll

Author:	Synbad [ Sat May 09, 2009 12:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
thegezman wrote: i can't remember a season so "even" or devoid of quality past the cats, hawks and maybe saints, there are like 10 other teams playing for 5 places it seems. i reckon we we are equal with the pies,saints and power in terms of where we finish. we could end up top four, if we dont take our chances we could miss out althogether. sgtanges season. i just hope we start really believingin our selves and back oursleves in the contest. we could do some damage if we get on a roll 11 Essendon players have played less than 25 games. *You still need to know what youre doing to make the four... or that might be the two... ... there is not much to beat if you have a team with talent that knows what its doing. We have the talent... but we have no clue what were doing...

Author:	dannyboy [ Sat May 09, 2009 7:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
The problem often seems to be that we under rate every other team while piling expectations upon our own. I have been happy this year because we have taken a step forward. We have some things that still need to be addressed (speed across the lines is one) but we are a stronger side than last year. I think in two years we'll be at the point where we'll start to push deep in to the finals. This year is neither here nor there to me in case of finals - I'll be happy to play in them for the experience but its about the introduction of some new/needed elements - Yarran/Warnock/Austin/Garlet/Robbo/Hammer to name a few. I want a few more games from Garlet and Robbo (probably second half of the season) and I want our defensive pressure worked on and players places in the side determined by these defensive factors. We are coming but we need to be patient.

Author:	Belisarius [ Sat May 09, 2009 10:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
Synbad wrote: Gotta have a plan thats not 'la la' when you enter games...and your players need to understand their roles. Its a weak season.... You can achieve heaps in a season like this... or you can make excuse after excuse to cover up for your own indaquecies Who should be our new coach then, as you obviously don't think Ratt's is up to it?

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Sat May 09, 2009 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: How long should it take?
Belisarius wrote: Synbad wrote: Gotta have a plan thats not 'la la' when you enter games...and your players need to understand their roles. Its a weak season.... You can achieve heaps in a season like this... or you can make excuse after excuse to cover up for your own indaquecies Who should be our new coach then, as you obviously don't think Ratt's is up to it? Any coach who whose team won over the weekend... of course this would have to be subject to change after next weekend....