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Re-watching the Melbourne game
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Author:  CarltonClem [ Wed May 25, 2005 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re-watching the Melbourne game
I spent some time today watching the 1st two quarters of the game and it's amazing what happens when you watch a game for the 2nd time.

A few things stood out (broken record people stand by :P).

- Nick Stevens was only occasionally accountable - at centre bounces he wasn't at all, didn't know where his opponent was, Philip Read kicked a couple of goals this way. Camporeale was no better. Stevens tried to man up an opponent, Camporeale never really tried.

- The amount of hospital handballs would have sent Medicare broke. What is it with players who automatically go backwards to a teammate? For crying out loud, I think that's symptomatic of my favourite whipping boys running behind teammates to receive the hand pass.

- Houlihan had a shocker, yes that was obvious - has completely lost his left foot. Is far too unaccountable in the backline, he's too loose for a HBF and his opponent always takes him back to the goal square. Runs backwards as a first option. Always does the blind turn; so often does he do it that it's now predictable.

- Our players are static, rarely led towards the ball carrier, hence the person with the ball just bombed it long. When no options are being presented, of course you just bomb it long. There were no overlaps being created, running into and creation of space for players to lead into. And because there were no leads, the ball was delivered too slowly from the back half.

- 2nd tier awful. Bannister - confidence in disposal shot - he's normally good. Scotland cannot win a one-on-one. Hint Scotto - at least try to get goal side of your opponent.
Author:  AGRO [ Wed May 25, 2005 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-watching the Melbourne game
CarltonClem wrote:
- Houlihan had a shocker, yes that was obvious - has completely lost his left foot.


Never lost it - just keeps on over estimating it by about 15 metres.
Author:  The Vet [ Thu May 26, 2005 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re-watching the Melbourne game
CarltonClem wrote:
The amount of hospital handballs would have sent Medicare broke. What is it with players who automatically go backwards to a teammate? For crying out loud, I think that's symptomatic of my favourite whipping boys running behind teammates to receive the hand pass.


CC took my old man to the game, he hasn't seen a lot of football recently, and he was staggered at our poor disposal skills. But most of all he was shocked at the dinky little "over the top" handballs to no-one, or the "hospital handball" to the bloke under pressure. His comment was that we seemed desperate to get rid of the ball, as if none of us had any confidence to retain it. Must say it makes sense. If you get rid of it quickly, someone else might just @#$%&! it up, not you. That's how we are playing at the moment.
Author:  bluehammer [ Thu May 26, 2005 7:51 am ]
Post subject: 
No to mention that I did a PJ and got my ugly mug on telly a couple of times...
Author:  Blue Bird [ Thu May 26, 2005 8:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Clem you are a masochist!

Apart from everything else mentioned what stood out for me were the handpasses that missed targets under no pressure.
Author:  Heavs [ Thu May 26, 2005 8:40 am ]
Post subject: 
What would you have them do instead of handball out the back Clem? Just hoof it forward to our key forwards to pull down pack marks?
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Thu May 26, 2005 8:58 am ]
Post subject: 
CC I watched it again also and I will repeat what I said the other day they look lost and confused . The ball carrier never gets protected so the disposal is rushed which usually results in a poor disposal and a turn over. It is basic stuff we all learnt in our juniors but our blokes seem to have fogotten it.
looking at Denis whiteboard with all those instructions on it maybe he just should keep it simple until they re learn the basics.
Author:  billc3 [ Thu May 26, 2005 11:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Sydney Blue wrote:
The ball carrier never gets protected so the disposal is rushed which usually results in a poor disposal and a turn over..


Lost my voice yelling "SHEPHERD" all the time...staggered after giving off they let the opposition player run through and put pressure on the ball carriier TOO BLLODY OFTEN. A combination of laziness and awareness
Author:  dannyboy [ Thu May 26, 2005 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
this is the worry because they are training to do the oppositte but maybe too many of them now the big bang is coming (so long and thanks for all the fish) and will not/cannot play the team game.

It seems we have to much self-preservation going on and their is little Denis can do because he and they know, we will axe a fair few at year's end.
Author:  CarltonClem [ Thu May 26, 2005 3:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Heavs wrote:
What would you have them do instead of handball out the back Clem? Just hoof it forward to our key forwards to pull down pack marks?


SOS said it best. You bang it 60m into space. Why in your D50 would you give a hospital handpass to someone under pressure?

At best you get a ball up in your defensive half. Not much better than that is the guy gets pinged for holding the ball, worse of all is if the ball spills to an opposition player and he runs in and kicks a goal.

At least just hoof it down field or towards the boundary where you can at least force a 50/50 contest.

And I'm going to cop it for this, but make no mistake, Camporeale was guilty of it on more than one occasion. Houlihan was as well.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Thu May 26, 2005 4:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
CC what about that dinking little chip kick coming out of the defensive 50 I 've seen T-Bird and Houlihan do it a few times this year only for it to be cut off 10 metres in front of them. You just cringe everytime you see it. what usually makes it worse is that they are running flat out and try dribble a little kick to some one who is 15 to 20 metres away. It either means that no one is presenting upfeild of they have over estimated their own ability.
Author:  Heavs [ Thu May 26, 2005 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
CarltonClem wrote:
Heavs wrote:
What would you have them do instead of handball out the back Clem? Just hoof it forward to our key forwards to pull down pack marks?


SOS said it best. You bang it 60m into space. Why in your D50 would you give a hospital handpass to someone under pressure?

At best you get a ball up in your defensive half. Not much better than that is the guy gets pinged for holding the ball, worse of all is if the ball spills to an opposition player and he runs in and kicks a goal.

At least just hoof it down field or towards the boundary where you can at least force a 50/50 contest.

And I'm going to cop it for this, but make no mistake, Camporeale was guilty of it on more than one occasion. Houlihan was as well.


Hoofing it down field to a 50/50 contest is great in theory. But in practice the sides we play are a lot better at 'role at the contest' than us and generally have a player dropped in a hole waiting for that quick kick out. Then we end up with a rebound situation where they stroll into the forward half and have all the time in the world to spot up a leading forward.

The idea of the out the back handball is that it is given to a player in space who has time to spot up a kick to a free(ish) opponent. Or at least choose the best option. The problem is not with the plan in doing it but in the execution - players are not positioning properly around the back of the contest. Or there is only the one player there because the rest have been sucked into the fighting for the ball at the contest. The kick is then rushed, or the player is under immediate pressure, because one of the players roles who it was to protect is under the bloody pack.
Author:  CarltonClem [ Thu May 26, 2005 7:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Heavs I'll grant that, but if the player under pressure then handballs to someone in an even worse position that is frustrating.

They should have more vision and sense to see that their teammate is in a more difficult situation than them and hence not give them the hospital hand pass.
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Thu May 26, 2005 7:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
And what's more, often they handpass backwards, and then turn the ball over, a good 10-15 metres closer to the opponent's goal than it was in the first place. I'm so sick of watching us go backwards in slo-mo.
Author:  molsey [ Thu May 26, 2005 7:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is it because we've only got 1 person up forward who can take a semblance of a pack mark at the moment, and while he's very good at it a) he's only still developing in the role and b) he's still at his best 1 on 1?

While Whitnall is down, and Fev really at his best as a leader, and DE Luca meaning two-grabs (great gag Jarusa), why would you kick up forward? I know we all talk about structure, and we mean it most defensively, but up forward we aren't taking the contested mark. We need Fisher badly.

Can Bryan take a pack mark?
Author:  CarltonClem [ Thu May 26, 2005 8:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Agree with molsey here, Fisher is needed badly, don't know how he does it but he takes a contested mark and that is sorely needed.

It's little wonder Pagan loves him...he'd be the last of the 2002 draft to be delisted you'd think...his attitude is excellent and he takes one-grab marks, a skill which can't be taught.

But even if we can't take a grab, we need to get crumbers front and square and this is not happening either.
Author:  Mickstar [ Thu May 26, 2005 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Game plan
It comes back to the one and only game plan.

Close your eyes and kick the effen thing as hard as you can.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Thu May 26, 2005 8:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Agree with what you said CC. Particularly tyhe little handballs...where I was sitting we were almost in chorus singing "Kick the bloody thing". Also on Houla going backwards, he's always done it. He'll run backwards 15 m rather than step forward, kick the ball 50m and accept some contact...kills us!
Author:  drfegg [ Thu May 26, 2005 9:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
A couple of thoughts from my re-viewing of the game. Firstly the loose man in defence arguement. Melbourne played the loose man in defense (mainly taking space in front of fev), we tried to play our loose man early as an extra midfielder (campo) who started each bounce outside the square on the wing. As we struggle to clear the ball from the ball-ups, why not play him at least behind the square where he is more likely to get his hands on it. We effectively played a man down and even in the event of the ball geting to campo, his inaccurate and non-penetrating kicking let him down badly.
Secondly ,or is it just me, when WE move the ball forward, do opposition half backs run off our forwards, in the anticipation that we will turn the ball over, BEFORE we have actually disposed of the ball? Inevitably when the turn over occurs ,they win the ball ,switch play, pass,kick,mark,goal. Bloody sick of seeing that.
Thirdly Brett Johnson can win the ball, but often turns it over with a rushed throw onto the boot. Is this pagans direction to move the ball forward as quick as possible? Why not try the short option ,first up (handball) to an outside midfielder i.e houla,stevens,campo who theoretically should have better and longer time to run/dispose of the ball.We are in desperate need of another ball winner at the stoppages, but our classier( and i use this term loosely) midfielders are outside "type" players.
Anyway just some questions running thru the head...
Author:  Synbad [ Thu May 26, 2005 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game plan
Mickstar wrote:
It comes back to the one and only game plan.

Close your eyes and kick the effen thing as hard as you can.


thats not the game plan... thats the iq...
How come the North sides game plan wasnt that shithouse?????

We have poor footballers with poor skills who cant think on their feet...simple as that.

Plus no leadership.
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