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I think our skills in general have improved noticeably this year. However they slipped a bit when we allowed ourselves to be put under pressure on Sat night by hesitating and not taking first options.

Navy Blue Horse wrote:

Have they improved because of the additions to the side like Robinson and the exclusion of Carrazzo, Bentick, Fisher etc?

Showed again today that this is our biggest issue. We easily won the contested possessions and clearances yet we turned the ball over and could not hit targets under pressure and our decision making is poor. We also do not have many guys that break the lines by foot.

Until we get better kicks into the side we will NOT compete with the top sides on a regular basis.

Watched a lot of footy at the weekend especially the performances of Geelong, Hawthorn, Bulldogs and St Kilda.

The big thing that stands out is that all these sides kick the ball very well. Throughout these sides not one of them would have someone who I would call a bad kick or decision maker by foot. Yes, they have some average ones but no one that is poor. They also took advantage of mistakes by the opposition on almost every occassion.

For me it highlighted the fine line between success and failure at this level. Against Essendon* and even Brisbane every mistake we made by foot we suffered and it put tremendous pressure on our defence. In today's game kicking is the key more than ever.

Ratten made a point before the draft last year that his priority was players who can kick (we then got Yarran, Robinson, Tiller and O'Keefe plus we got Johnson). You can work on your kicking all you want but IMO you either have it or you don't.

Guys like Bentick, Wiggins, Fisher, Russell, Bower, Carrazzo, Pfieffer and Hampson struggle in this area.

The question is can we carry players who are poor by foot and poor in their decision making if we are going to get to the top? IMO NO!

We easily won the contested possessions and clearances

Quote:

We easily won the contested possessions and clearances

What game were you watching?

wow, I'm convinced, if you actually watched the game you would have seen Hawthorn happy to cause many stoppages and when they cleared the ball they did it well, while when we cleared it we were under the pump and errors resulted.

Don't throw stats at me and think that stops the argument, watch the game properly and you will see that the main reason we lost was that they were more physical then us, as in stronger. We tried our best though and can't ask for much more then that.

Author:	cj69 [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:42 am ]
Post subject:	Kicking?
Watched a lot of footy at the weekend especially the performances of Geelong, Hawthorn, Bulldogs and St Kilda. The big thing that stands out is that all these sides kick the ball very well. Throughout these sides not one of them would have someone who I would call a bad kick or decision maker by foot. Yes, they have some average ones but no one that is poor. They also took advantage of mistakes by the opposition on almost every occassion. For me it highlighted the fine line between success and failure at this level. Against Essendon* and even Brisbane every mistake we made by foot we suffered and it put tremendous pressure on our defence. In today's game kicking is the key more than ever. Ratten made a point before the draft last year that his priority was players who can kick (we then got Yarran, Robinson, Tiller and O'Keefe plus we got Johnson). You can work on your kicking all you want but IMO you either have it or you don't. Guys like Bentick, Wiggins, Fisher, Russell, Bower, Carrazzo, Pfieffer and Hampson struggle in this area. The question is can we carry players who are poor by foot and poor in their decision making if we are going to get to the top? IMO NO!

Author:	Navy Blue Horse [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
I think our skills in general have improved noticeably this year. However they slipped a bit when we allowed ourselves to be put under pressure on Sat night by hesitating and not taking first options.

Author:	Kouta [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
cj69 wrote: Watched a lot of footy at the weekend especially the performances of Geelong, Hawthorn, Bulldogs and St Kilda. The big thing that stands out is that all these sides kick the ball very well. Throughout these sides not one of them would have someone who I would call a bad kick or decision maker by foot. Yes, they have some average ones but no one that is poor. St Kilda have Farren Ray and Clinton Jones. You were a tad harsh on Hampson who can kick for a man of his size and inexperience. Waite made a strange decision to hand the ball to Hampson against Port last year to take it out of the backline. Yet Hampson hit the target and linked up well to get it back again. Hampson's decision making and football are the areas where he needs to improve. Mark Austin is a good kick and will improve our efficiency in taking the ball out of the back half.

Author:	cj69 [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
Navy Blue Horse wrote: I think our skills in general have improved noticeably this year. However they slipped a bit when we allowed ourselves to be put under pressure on Sat night by hesitating and not taking first options. Have they improved because of the additions to the side like Robinson and the exclusion of Carrazzo, Bentick, Fisher etc?

Author:	Melvey [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
cj69 wrote: Navy Blue Horse wrote: I think our skills in general have improved noticeably this year. However they slipped a bit when we allowed ourselves to be put under pressure on Sat night by hesitating and not taking first options. Have they improved because of the additions to the side like Robinson and the exclusion of Carrazzo, Bentick, Fisher etc? Do you really need us to answer to that? Im surprised how hell Joseph uses the ball. This kid has a promising future at the club

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Author:	cj69 [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
Showed again today that this is our biggest issue. We easily won the contested possessions and clearances yet we turned the ball over and could not hit targets under pressure and our decision making is poor. We also do not have many guys that break the lines by foot. Until we get better kicks into the side we will NOT compete with the top sides on a regular basis.

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
I think you're underestimating how much pressure Hawthorn were able to put our guys under today. That's one of the reason they're the Premiers. Some of the errors made today were silly skill errors, some were more "forced errors".

Author:	verbs [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
cj69 wrote: Showed again today that this is our biggest issue. We easily won the contested possessions and clearances yet we turned the ball over and could not hit targets under pressure and our decision making is poor. We also do not have many guys that break the lines by foot. Until we get better kicks into the side we will NOT compete with the top sides on a regular basis. Put your CV in to the club and try and get us a few training sessions as a kicking coach. I reckon it'll put us into the top 3.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Sat May 02, 2009 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
cj69 wrote: Watched a lot of footy at the weekend especially the performances of Geelong, Hawthorn, Bulldogs and St Kilda. The big thing that stands out is that all these sides kick the ball very well. Throughout these sides not one of them would have someone who I would call a bad kick or decision maker by foot. Yes, they have some average ones but no one that is poor. They also took advantage of mistakes by the opposition on almost every occassion. For me it highlighted the fine line between success and failure at this level. Against Essendon* and even Brisbane every mistake we made by foot we suffered and it put tremendous pressure on our defence. In today's game kicking is the key more than ever. Ratten made a point before the draft last year that his priority was players who can kick (we then got Yarran, Robinson, Tiller and O'Keefe plus we got Johnson). You can work on your kicking all you want but IMO you either have it or you don't. Guys like Bentick, Wiggins, Fisher, Russell, Bower, Carrazzo, Pfieffer and Hampson struggle in this area. The question is can we carry players who are poor by foot and poor in their decision making if we are going to get to the top? IMO NO! geez, did a carlton player spit in your sandwich or something. just about everything i have read from you is negative. whilst i agree skill errors are costly, and we seem to pay for every error we make, but gee, we have lost by 4, 17 & 4. We need to improve, and we will with time, and we could easily be 6-0, but we arent, and that is the next step we need to take. we are creating enough chances, we just need to take them. we have taken steps this year, and we need to continue to improve. but hell, judd had a couple stinkers as well today, he mustnt be able to kick either.

Author:	The Normal One [ Sat May 02, 2009 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
CJ60 ... go to bed mate. Sleep on it and wake up in the morning and see Carlton 2-3 spots above where most people tipped them this season. Apart from the Essendon* game, most realistic people would see the improvement in the team in all areas. Today was a massive test win or lose, we should of won, but winning isn't always a sign of improvement. Maybe you go through the tapes the past few years, we have been smashed physically, emotionally in ever aspect by Hawthorn, they have treated us with contempt. Everyone wants to win the Premiership, the players, MC, supporters, Officials, sponsors, but again realistic people will know it doesn't happen overnight. What you also need to realise is up to 6-10 of this current group won't be in the next Premiership side, that doesn't mean the players selected today didn't deserve a game based on form against the Bulldogs or Bullants. 2009 will see players step up, players step down, players delisted, players promoted, enjoy the ride, if we finish 8th, we play finals, that's one small step towards that Premiership, but 1 giant step in the clubs re-emergence.

Author:	kingkerna [ Sat May 02, 2009 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
Quote: We easily won the contested possessions and clearances What game were you watching?

Author:	cj69 [ Sat May 02, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
kingkerna wrote: Quote: We easily won the contested possessions and clearances What game were you watching? CP 126-115

Author:	kingkerna [ Sat May 02, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
wow, I'm convinced, if you actually watched the game you would have seen Hawthorn happy to cause many stoppages and when they cleared the ball they did it well, while when we cleared it we were under the pump and errors resulted. Don't throw stats at me and think that stops the argument, watch the game properly and you will see that the main reason we lost was that they were more physical then us, as in stronger. We tried our best though and can't ask for much more then that.

Author:	cj69 [ Sat May 02, 2009 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
kingkerna wrote: wow, I'm convinced, if you actually watched the game you would have seen Hawthorn happy to cause many stoppages and when they cleared the ball they did it well, while when we cleared it we were under the pump and errors resulted. Don't throw stats at me and think that stops the argument, watch the game properly and you will see that the main reason we lost was that they were more physical then us, as in stronger. We tried our best though and can't ask for much more then that. I am not questioning the effort it was fantastic. In some ways that makes it obvious that there are other areas that needs major improvement. Watch all our games and you will realise that we are very good at the stoppages. Our issue is that we do not use the ball as well as sides like Hawthorn and Geelong. That is the modern game and why we recruited Yarran, Robinson, Johnson & OKeefe in last years drafts. Rattens edict was guys that can kick. Although you are right, near enough is good enough eh Denis!

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Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Sun May 03, 2009 8:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
kingkerna wrote: wow, I'm convinced, if you actually watched the game you would have seen Hawthorn happy to cause many stoppages and when they cleared the ball they did it well, while when we cleared it we were under the pump and errors resulted. Don't throw stats at me and think that stops the argument, watch the game properly and you will see that the main reason we lost was that they were more physical then us, as in stronger. We tried our best though and can't ask for much more then that. Couldnt agree more. Hawthorn were able to break tackles or offload because our tackles didn't stick. We need another pre-season and a bit more strength in those bodies. Hopefully we'll be able to find a couple more players prepared to chase and tackle at all times too.

Author:	cj69 [ Sat May 09, 2009 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
I have said it before and tonight is more proof. We do not have enough good users of the ball. Until we get better kickers of the ball we will not be a top side.

Author:	true_blue3 [ Sat May 09, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
of our whole list, there are 10 players who i'm comfortable with when they have the ball in their hands: gibbs, judd, stevens, fev, murphy, scotland, betts, grigg, houlihan, yarran there are other players who are solid: simpson, johnson, thornton, kreuzer. so that means in any game, there are at least 8 players (and quite often more as not all of the above play together most of the time) who make you have your heart in your mouth everytime they get the ball. compare that with a geelong or st kilda who probably have 1 or 2 at the worst of times, if that.

Author:	bluehammer [ Sat May 09, 2009 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Kicking?
1. There is kicking. 2. There is kicking under pressure 3. There is kicking under extreme pressure. IMO, the great sides are brilliant at the 3rd, yet because of it never actually have to do so.