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| Missing the draft - Really hurt us or an excuss? http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2418 |
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| Author: | Crazy Joe [ Mon May 23, 2005 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Missing the draft - Really hurt us or an excuss? |
Really hurt us of course. But I wonder how much. Consider if we had of picked up Goddard and Wells. They step right in and we don't win a wooden spoon the next year. We miss the priority pick and don't end up with Stevens and Walker. So who would you prefer Stevens/Walker vs Goddard/Wells? I guess it really a question of completely missing out on later round picks that hurt us. Just wondering if this is going to be an excuss by our current administration/coaching staff moving forward. |
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| Author: | Zippy [ Mon May 23, 2005 5:41 pm ] |
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I don't think Wells and Goddard in their first year would be the difference between us not getting Stevens and Walker. We could have Wells, Goddard, Walker, McLean, Stevens all running around today and I think that would make a bit of a difference but it wouldn't put us in the 8. Put Wells, McLean and Goddard in the midfield rotation instead of guys like Bannister, Johnson and those type of guys and it would make a difference. |
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| Author: | Humpers [ Mon May 23, 2005 6:00 pm ] |
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It is the "wasted" draft picks from 1997-2001 that is hurting us ie) Vance, Massie, Livingston, Wiggins & McKernan. |
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| Author: | mikkey [ Mon May 23, 2005 6:27 pm ] |
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Duuuuuhhhhhh..... Why do people forget that it was not just the 2 priority picks we lost? We lost a whole bunch of early picks for 2 years. |
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| Author: | mjonc [ Mon May 23, 2005 7:16 pm ] |
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The way i worked it out we have lost Brock McLean, Daniel Wells, Brendan Goddard as first round picks lost in 2002/2003. Kris Shore, Will Minson, Jarred Rivers or Tom Lonergon with our second round pick in 2002 and Stephen Powell, Craig Bolton or Brent Moloney with the 2003 pre-season draft first selection. Not to mention who we could of picked up in the 2003 draft if we did not trade the rest of our picks for second hand players. |
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| Author: | camel [ Mon May 23, 2005 7:54 pm ] |
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Humpers wrote: It is the "wasted" draft picks from 1997-2001 that is hurting us...
Fact. |
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| Author: | Ducks [ Mon May 23, 2005 9:22 pm ] |
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camelboy wrote: Humpers wrote: It is the "wasted" draft picks from 1997-2001 that is hurting us... Fact. Exactly and that is the reason we have no senior core today which is hurting us badly as the youngsters coming through can't rely on senior players to carry the load whilst they adjust, mature etc. The young guys are having to do everything themselves and they don't know how. Also the picks we were stripped of was a chance to get some real class into the club and build a real foundation for the future, bad sadly we were stopped. I guess we'll just have to start again with that this year. |
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| Author: | scottopee [ Tue May 24, 2005 12:34 am ] |
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mjonc wrote: Kris Shore, Will Minson, Jarred Rivers or Tom Lonergon with our second round pick in 2002
Traded our 2nd round pick for French but agree its hurt more then most think. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Tue May 24, 2005 12:38 am ] |
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scottopee wrote: mjonc wrote: Kris Shore, Will Minson, Jarred Rivers or Tom Lonergon with our second round pick in 2002 Traded our 2nd round pick for French but agree its hurt more then most think. we were lucky with French.We got him for nothing. That pick would have been taken off us anyway...and was. |
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| Author: | AGRO [ Tue May 24, 2005 12:47 am ] |
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I thought finishing 10th last year was a real win for the "stick it up yours Demetrispew" faction - which I admit I am President of. But I honestly think - he would have been glad, we finished 10th in 2004. What really gives him the shits is when we manage to snare quality like a Walker or a Stevens. 
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| Author: | scottopee [ Tue May 24, 2005 1:18 am ] |
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Synbad wrote: scottopee wrote: mjonc wrote: Kris Shore, Will Minson, Jarred Rivers or Tom Lonergon with our second round pick in 2002 Traded our 2nd round pick for French but agree its hurt more then most think. we were lucky with French.We got him for nothing. That pick would have been taken off us anyway...and was. I know that Synbad the 4 players listed were all taken before our new 2nd round pick! And the pick was taken of us. |
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| Author: | magic [ Tue May 24, 2005 1:28 pm ] |
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If we didnt get those penalties, we wouldnt have Stevens, Fisher, Walker. So we missed Wells and got Stevens and Walker, pffft so wat. Would wells have made us finish any higher, its the 1 million that hurt. |
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| Author: | Wojee [ Tue May 24, 2005 2:20 pm ] |
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italian_styles wrote: If we didnt get those penalties, we wouldnt have Stevens, Fisher, Walker. So we missed Wells and got Stevens and Walker, pffft so wat. Would wells have made us finish any higher, its the 1 million that hurt.
Picking up Goddard and Wells at the end of 2002 wouldn't have had much impact on where we finished in 2003. We'd still have finished bottom two and still been able to pick up Walker and Stevens. |
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| Author: | BlueMark [ Tue May 24, 2005 2:28 pm ] |
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A combination of poor choices when we had them and not having early picks for a couple of years has hampered us. |
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| Author: | Sedat [ Tue May 24, 2005 3:05 pm ] |
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Coming from another club's perspective, the Bulldogs drafted nothing but no-hopers under the wonderful recruiting reign of Mark Kleiman  from 1995-1998 (Nathan Brown the only notable exception). Whist Scott Clayton took over from 1999 onwards, we are only now just starting to see the fruits of his endeavour (Murphy, Gilbee, Gia, Bowden, Hahn, Hargrave, Power, McMahon, Harris, etc..). That meant when the original foot soldier core of Romero/Libba/Hudson/Curley/Dimma/Southern/Kretiuk/Croft, etc.. all retired/left, we ended up with a list full of raw under 21's, supplemented with an aging core of over 28's. No wonder we went from competitive in 2002 to rubbish in the next 2 seasons (Rohde notwithstanding).
Carlton's situation seems to be a near exact replica, but with draft penalties exacerbating the poor drafting of the late 90's. Like us trading for recycled players like Rawlings, Koops, Street, Bassett, etc.. to try and artifically beef up the 23-26 yo experience, Carlton have done the same. It's an artificial solution, but unlike the Dogs, it was one that Carlton had little choice but to adopt because of the penalties. The only real solution is to take the medicine, and bide time until those under 21's all come through together and form the core of the side at 22-23, and start influencing games on a consistent basis. It will happen, but it will take some time. |
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| Author: | The Duke [ Tue May 24, 2005 4:05 pm ] |
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I think the main reason is that we lost those picks when we had already hit rock bottom. Had we been up the top with picks 10 and 26 you probably wouldn't have noticed a great deal of difference. Massive retirements, injuries to old players and draft penalties are the reason why we are where we're at. Factor in that we were un-able to draft players to enter into the first 2 rounds and you have an AFL hell bent on sinking in the boots. Pagan couldn't trade a Lance or Campo to gain, say, a top 10 pick (Which they were almost worth back then). This particular penalty has still got me stuffed. A well run orginisation would have set penalties for clubs that breached the rules way back when the system was set up. A system that penalised the administration of a club rather than the customers that keep it running. Boards that oversee breaches in the rules should be sacked and banned from holding any future position, payed or un-payed, in the AFL. This would make the Eddies and Jacks of the AFL really think about the club they love and wether they want to be part of the future. |
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| Author: | Elwood Blues1 [ Tue May 24, 2005 4:21 pm ] |
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We are presuming we would have picked some of these players..Moloney wasnt picked up due to injury and ended up as a rookie we were not interested...as if we were going to pick Minson ..tall with bulk...dream on...would have looked out of place with all our Kenyan U15's types... It would have been the next skinny runt available ..... We would have avoided Mclean as well...not quick enough..or skinny enough.l Wells was the big miss...A grader Goddard would have been handy... |
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