We cheer when Collingwood wins and are sad when Essendon* loses.

We want them to win and for us to lose

Winners are losers, losers are winners

We gloat because will we get priority picks and cheer when they don't.

No pride, No honour, No nothing.

The soul of football is dead.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

I agree with you Mark. The AFL has successfully turned football into a product.

I'd like nothing more than for there to be a way forward that didn't involve the sort of perverse 'logic' you've just outlined, but it seems the system has been carefully constructed to make that impossible.

It's a very, very different game to the one we grew up with, isn't it?

That's Football socialism for you and with Demetriou as the boss should we be surprised?

Carlton supporters are fast adopting a loser mentality.

It took StKilda five years to make the finals after they "won" the wooden spoon in 1999. They hardly look a threat this year.

Only one team in the last 25 years has won the premiership after "winning" the wooden spoon -- the Brisbane Lions. Their wooden spoon in 1998 was highly unexpected, most likely caused by the take-over of Fitzroy.

Since Sydney "won" the wooden spoon in 1994 -- 11 years ago, only they, Melbourne and Collingwood are the only other teams to make a grand final since "winning" the wooden spoon. Of course they all lost.

Essendon*, Geelong, Hawthorn and North Melbourne haven't "won" a wooden spoon in the last 25 years. Only Geelong doesn't have multiple premierships in that period.

West Coast, Port and Adelaide have all never "won" a wooden spoon, and all have premierships.

Some teams are "winners"

Some teams are "losers"

well put verbs but sadly, its the supporters that ar ebeing changed and when they/we are gone, this game is gone.

still it's make a change from big brother 0h and sometimes we may have big brother 'the footballers' or 'surviving football wives' or ramsey street versus Arden street....

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

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So I take it that you'd all like to see the PP's abolished immediately for "the good of the game"?...hmmm?

I think the AFL is correct in waiting one more year ..... only if we qualify. Anyway if you have any doubts about the system and the menatality it creates, ask any Richmond supporter what finishing last is like?

Well put Mark, to me this is not acceptable, losing is not acceptable no matter what carrott is dangled to make it appear o.k

I think the PP rules should be changed to eliminate "tanking" as this could become a poisionous cancer that could destroy the credibility of our game.

the soul of football died when teams were forced to "sellout' in order to survive...ie carlton....had to leave our proud home just to survive as a club....disgraceful

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R A D I C A L B R O T H E R S

Inspired by the One-Minute Sculptures of Erwin Wurm

"All in all is all we are..."

Shouldn't that title have the pic of Nicky R blubbing his little eyes out on it?

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

My first take on StK loss against Adelaide was the same as yours......however put a fit Hamill, Harvey, Kotschike, Maguire and Thompson and see how they go. Think StK has Geelong's measure if all its players are fit.

I dont think most of us have adopted anything like you in our mentality.....

Sorry thats another red herring....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I'm very unique. I hate it when Carlton loses!!!

I think they actually "won" the spoon in 2000. None the less, I thought for a minute there you were referring to their grand final loss to Adelaide.

StKilda and Geelong have won nothing so far. They have very bad report cards. The clock is ticking.

Sure you do.... is that why you want us to lose for the next decade????
Caught up in perpetual nothingness????
StKilda have a young list.... they have a list every coach would kill for...
The clock isnt ticking in StKilda and Geelong just yet.
If theyre struggling in 3 years it will start ticking... the saving grace with stKilda is the coach.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

What do you mean by this, Synbad?

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

It means lucky for the rest of the competition GT is the coach over there... unlucky for them...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.