TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!

Back in 1993, Harry Madden was so dominant in the ruck that it was possible to have a set play at each centre bounce. Apparently, Harry and the midfielders would know what they were all going to do at each bounce.

Unfortunately, Neale Daniher was an early pioneer of video analysis and worked out what would happen at each successive bounce. That allowed the Bombers to pick off Harry's tap-outs during the GF, and that's why we looked like we were shell-shocked in the first quarter against a less-fancied midfield.

One example was when Michael Long ran between Madden and Diesel and sharked a ball, and he ran towards goal and kicked it through for a goal (despite SOS touching it).

The sidelight to that story was that Essendon* managed to let the cat out of the bag about Daniher's discovery prior to the GF, with 2 versions of it being that it was faxed unintentionally to a Carlton supporter who was then intimidated into keeping it quiet, or that the memo was sent to Carlton but it lay unopened on Ashman's desk until after the GF (resulting in his dismissal). Apparently there was some story in the papers a while back which favoured version no. 1.

They don't have to be complicated plays, and it may only work from the centre bounce ... it just means that players up and down the ground are involved in a play and it's not limited to a play phase: kick-out, stoppage, bounce, etc ... each player knows if we win the ball, what will happen and what their roles are and all 18 work towards it's success. It's not something they won't have considered but there must be a reason they're not doing it, any ideas? Is it the lack of surety of posession (obviously without the ball all bets are off)?

LosAzules wrote:

I've thought of this also in the past. I think our game is much too quick and fluid to have structured strategies. Maybe in centre bounces and at throw in but even then you are reliant on the ruckman getting first hands on the ball and you can't stop the positioning of the opposition players. I think you do see a lot of set plays in AFL at throw ins, kick-ins etc. Also, if it did work then I reckon it would be relatively easy for opposition teams to work out the different strategies and would mean dozens of different strategies would have to be remembered across the whole team. If it did work it would have to be the best drilled team in the history of the AFL.

In gridiron the play is a lot more stop/start and one side controls the ball at the start of each play also the opposition are positioned on the opposite side of the offensive team so you have a better chance to be able to setup the set play.

Author:	LosAzules [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
Coaches borrow alot from other codes: conditioning, recovery, game strategies (zones etc.) ... ... now I know they work on Set Plays but I'm curious why they dont take that to the next level and copy the American football's extensive use of Set Plays across the whole defensive/offensive unit that is on the field at a given time. From watching their game (no expert here!) they all seem to be in on the play, they all work to it's execution with blocking, positioning, running, breaking right or left. Imagine Judd coming back into the centre after a goal, he yells "89, 89" up and down the ground, it gets relayed across the park: The play involved is an an attacking play, a defender (Jammo for example) is going to come sprinting through the square, one midfielder is designated to block his opponent, all midfielders know where he's going to be and are positioning to make space for him ... the ruck knows he has to push it to that side of the ground ... Judd wins the ruck flicks it out straight to Jammo ... there's more ... the forwards read an 89 as push forward at the bounce, the 50 is now empty ... Eddie and Yarran know that as soon as it hits Jammo ... Jammo will be bombing it over the head of the players now bunched around the 50 ... both Yarran and Eddie turn and bolt towards the goal square, Fev and Fish know this and have positioned for blocks ... both break free, the ball rolls towards the pocket, Eddie gets it and flicks it to Yarran who lazily snaps a goal before raising a digit and yelling "89 ... that's what I'm talking about!!" ... hhhmmm, it's been a long off-season. They don't have to be complicated plays, and it may only work from the centre bounce ... it just means that players up and down the ground are involved in a play and it's not limited to a play phase: kick-out, stoppage, bounce, etc ... each player knows if we win the ball, what will happen and what their roles are and all 18 work towards it's success. It's not something they won't have considered but there must be a reason they're not doing it, any ideas? Is it the lack of surety of posession (obviously without the ball all bets are off)?

Author:	Sam Sunshine [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
If the rucks can deliver the ball with the precision that this "play call" requires, then why can they not provide the same control during the game. It probably comes back to the facts of AFL, after a goal or to sart a quarter' play, an umpire bounces an oval shaped ball and it can (and often) does go any where. Control of the ball by one team is something that requires effort and skill, it is not a given fact. Two teams are doing their best to get the ball under their control when play starts. In Gridirion the team has the ball and will either pass it (though to a receiver) or run it over the line of scrimmage. It is a a play where they already have control of the ball. AFL is not as simple a game.

Author:	Buzza4 [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!

Author:	club29 [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
Remember the Blue boys got ahold of the Maggies play book back when Tony shaw was coaching them. We slaughtered them that day and then went on to brag about how we knew every move they were going to make.

Author:	Indie [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
Back in 1993, Harry Madden was so dominant in the ruck that it was possible to have a set play at each centre bounce. Apparently, Harry and the midfielders would know what they were all going to do at each bounce. Unfortunately, Neale Daniher was an early pioneer of video analysis and worked out what would happen at each successive bounce. That allowed the Bombers to pick off Harry's tap-outs during the GF, and that's why we looked like we were shell-shocked in the first quarter against a less-fancied midfield. One example was when Michael Long ran between Madden and Diesel and sharked a ball, and he ran towards goal and kicked it through for a goal (despite SOS touching it). The sidelight to that story was that Essendon* managed to let the cat out of the bag about Daniher's discovery prior to the GF, with 2 versions of it being that it was faxed unintentionally to a Carlton supporter who was then intimidated into keeping it quiet, or that the memo was sent to Carlton but it lay unopened on Ashman's desk until after the GF (resulting in his dismissal). Apparently there was some story in the papers a while back which favoured version no. 1.

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Author:	teagueyubeauty [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
Piss poor from a Carlton supporter if it was version number 1.

Author:	Donstuie [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
Indie wrote: Back in 1993, Harry Madden was so dominant in the ruck that it was possible to have a set play at each centre bounce. Apparently, Harry and the midfielders would know what they were all going to do at each bounce. Unfortunately, Neale Daniher was an early pioneer of video analysis and worked out what would happen at each successive bounce. That allowed the Bombers to pick off Harry's tap-outs during the GF, and that's why we looked like we were shell-shocked in the first quarter against a less-fancied midfield. One example was when Michael Long ran between Madden and Diesel and sharked a ball, and he ran towards goal and kicked it through for a goal (despite SOS touching it). The sidelight to that story was that Essendon* managed to let the cat out of the bag about Daniher's discovery prior to the GF, with 2 versions of it being that it was faxed unintentionally to a Carlton supporter who was then intimidated into keeping it quiet, or that the memo was sent to Carlton but it lay unopened on Ashman's desk until after the GF (resulting in his dismissal). Apparently there was some story in the papers a while back which favoured version no. 1. I thought their only strategy was to belt any of our players in sight (knowing the umpires would let them do whatever they wanted) and kick the ball to whoever Athorn was marking.

Author:	kaxsta [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
LosAzules wrote: They don't have to be complicated plays, and it may only work from the centre bounce ... it just means that players up and down the ground are involved in a play and it's not limited to a play phase: kick-out, stoppage, bounce, etc ... each player knows if we win the ball, what will happen and what their roles are and all 18 work towards it's success. It's not something they won't have considered but there must be a reason they're not doing it, any ideas? Is it the lack of surety of posession (obviously without the ball all bets are off)? I've thought of this also in the past. I think our game is much too quick and fluid to have structured strategies. Maybe in centre bounces and at throw in but even then you are reliant on the ruckman getting first hands on the ball and you can't stop the positioning of the opposition players. I think you do see a lot of set plays in AFL at throw ins, kick-ins etc. Also, if it did work then I reckon it would be relatively easy for opposition teams to work out the different strategies and would mean dozens of different strategies would have to be remembered across the whole team. If it did work it would have to be the best drilled team in the history of the AFL. In gridiron the play is a lot more stop/start and one side controls the ball at the start of each play also the opposition are positioned on the opposite side of the offensive team so you have a better chance to be able to setup the set play.

Author:	HELLAS BLUE [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
You've been watching way too much NFL.

Author:	Navy Blue Horse [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
Our set plays work fine...until we turn it over.

Author:	Blue Sombrero [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Carlton Playbook --- Hutt, hutt, hutt!
kaxsta wrote: LosAzules wrote: They don't have to be complicated plays, and it may only work from the centre bounce ... it just means that players up and down the ground are involved in a play and it's not limited to a play phase: kick-out, stoppage, bounce, etc ... each player knows if we win the ball, what will happen and what their roles are and all 18 work towards it's success. It's not something they won't have considered but there must be a reason they're not doing it, any ideas? Is it the lack of surety of posession (obviously without the ball all bets are off)? I've thought of this also in the past. I think our game is much too quick and fluid to have structured strategies. Maybe in centre bounces and at throw in but even then you are reliant on the ruckman getting first hands on the ball and you can't stop the positioning of the opposition players. I think you do see a lot of set plays in AFL at throw ins, kick-ins etc. Also, if it did work then I reckon it would be relatively easy for opposition teams to work out the different strategies and would mean dozens of different strategies would have to be remembered across the whole team. If it did work it would have to be the best drilled team in the history of the AFL. In gridiron the play is a lot more stop/start and one side controls the ball at the start of each play also the opposition are positioned on the opposite side of the offensive team so you have a better chance to be able to setup the set play. Don't forget, too, that some of the players in American football are restricted in what they are allowed to do with the football. Only two can pass forward and only some are allowed to tackle. As soon as the punter punts, their set plays go out the window. We are kicking all the time. Others in this post have already noted that one side has the ball at the start of each play in the midfield, so there is a big difference. They always start on the centreline for each play as well so both sides of the gridiron are available to the QB. In our game the play restarts at a field bounce where the ball was. Some attacking set plays, particularly close to goal already exist and when they come off they look great but that's the extent of it IMO. Hawthorn's defensive zone is a defensive set play, based on where the footy is at any given moment and they have used it to great effect. Expect it to be the norm for most teams this year.

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