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The Blueseum: Carlton in NSW, 1890 (one for the tragics!)
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Author:  The Blueseum [ Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  The Blueseum: Carlton in NSW, 1890 (one for the tragics!)
Earlier in the year, a Carlton fan sent in details of a Carlton excusion to NSW in 1890 (mid-season!) We've put together a story around the games played - this is a mix of Carlton games story and a bit of a history lesson for those interested (Do you know what a smoke concert is?)

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-read_artic ... ticleId=84

The article contains some Carlton greats from yesteryear, including Billy Strickland (also associated with Collingwood) and John Melville, who would later be an administrator for the both the Football and Cricket clubs.

Whilst you're reading, enjoy all the links to our pre-VFL players section which has recently gone through something of a revamp and refill thanks to 'blueycarlton'.

From the Blueseum
Author:  bluey95 [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Carlton vs ACT - 197??
Ok - here's an absolute pearler and geeze I'll be impressed if anyone has details about this.

In the mid to late 70's Carlton played the one and only match it's ever played in the ACT. I don't know if Jezza played, but Doull did!

How can I be so sure? I was part of the team playing at half time for Belconnen Juniors who back then, wore a copy of the Carlton strip.

I remember 3 things from that day. Me and dad were hit by a purple EH Sedan just near the Treasury building on the way home - he also roused on me for sliding down a slanted stone wall on my bum and getting my white shorts dirty but most of all, I remember sitting on the wing, right next to the action just before half time and the look on one of the ACT players faces as he bolted down the wing, pursued rather vigorously by one B. Doull. I swear the ground shook with each of his foot falls!

Jarusa - you got anything on this game? A scoreline by chance?

I'll be very, very impressed if you've got anything on this one!

regards

Rich
Author:  Jarusa [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll send out the carrier pigeons and see what we can dig up.

Everyone else, check out the article above, great article by molsey and inspired in part by a gentleman up in Sydney doing fantastic work on the history of Aussie rules in 19th century sydney who graciously lets the Blueseum know when he digs up any info on the Blues.
Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fantastic read, and highly informing.

I look forward to telling the tale of Carlton circa 1890, 14 years before ARL started.

I knew that Aussie Rules was earmarked as the colony's (NSW) chosen football code, and in a quick twist with a few coups like poaching a few Rugby Union greats, and an avid Australian Rules fan turned to Rugby League.

So close.

Great that Carlton has left an indelible mark on Sydney, nearly 120 years ago.

Wow.
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:31 am ]
Post subject: 
So there.

All the more reason for us to increase our presence up here. We have history up here.

(Psst, bondi, it was 18 years, not 14)
Author:  bondiblue [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
So there.

All the more reason for us to increase our presence up here. We have history up here.

(Psst, bondi, it was 18 years, not 14)


Not that we don't have a strong case for Carlton games in Sydney, but we certainly can keep building an even stronger casefor a permanent Carlton game in Sydney... as the days and years tick over.

I look forward to telling Sydneysiders of the Carlton roots in Sydney.

Here's an idea:

Perhaps in the lead up pto the Carlton-Sydney game in April 2009, the promotional commercials on TV and paper can include this little part of our history.

It's a strong point to make for Sydney based Carlton fans, and with our resurgence we can probably get a few of the fence sitters join the Bluebaggers; that depends on the strength of the promotion of course.

At the very least,"They [will] know" by then that "...we're coming". That's a great backdrop for a campaign with local relevance.

I can think of a few beauties based around that fantastic report in Blueseum.
Author:  blueycarlton [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
BondiBlue,
Would that be Dally Messenger by any chance?
Author:  AGRO [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
bondiblue wrote:
I knew that Aussie Rules was earmarked as the colony's (NSW) chosen football code, and in a quick twist with a few coups like poaching a few Rugby Union greats, and an avid Australian Rules fan turned to Rugby League.



And an encounter with a shark in Sydney Harbour as well - I can remember reading about this somewhere - that an VFA official cut short his visit in Sydney (in around the 1880s) when he was due to meet some Sydney football officials - he was taken on a cruise about Sydney Harbour and their was an incident with a shark that so shook him up he cut short his visit and returned to Melbourne quick smart.

I do some research on this later tonight at home through my volumes because I am sure I have read this story somewhere. :?
Author:  bondiblue [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
blueycarlton wrote:
BondiBlue,
Would that be Dally Messenger by any chance?


Yep
Author:  AGRO [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
AGRO wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I knew that Aussie Rules was earmarked as the colony's (NSW) chosen football code, and in a quick twist with a few coups like poaching a few Rugby Union greats, and an avid Australian Rules fan turned to Rugby League.



And an encounter with a shark in Sydney Harbour as well - I can remember reading about this somewhere - that an VFA official cut short his visit in Sydney (in around the 1880s) when he was due to meet some Sydney football officials - he was taken on a cruise about Sydney Harbour and their was an incident with a shark that so shook him up he cut short his visit and returned to Melbourne quick smart.

I do some research on this later tonight at home through my volumes because I am sure I have read this story somewhere. :?



I new I would find the reference - in Keith Dunstan's Book "The Paddock that grew" (revised edition 19974 - page 245 - he refers to a visit by George Coulthard (probably in reference to Carlton's tour of NSW in 1877:

The game up to this date had not spread to other colonies, but Phil Sheridan, a trustee of the Sydney Cricket Ground, became very interested. He invited George Coulthard, one of the best exponents of Victorian football, to go to Sydney with the idea of establishing it there. But Coulthard had an unfortunate experience. His host invited to join a fishing expedition in Sydney Harbour. While sitting on the side of the boat with his coat almost trailing in the water a savage shark seized the coat tails. If he had not parted company with the coat he would have been pulled into the water. This was all too much for Mr Coulthard and he promptly returned to Melbourne. So it could be argued that but for an unpleasant shark Australian Rules could be a major code in Sydney today.

However it seems Dunstan's view of Carlton's tour of NSW by this description gives little credit to the interest in the tour as indicated in "The Blue Boys" - by Brian Hansen and his description of Carlton's tour in 1877 on page 37 of his book.

He talks about crowds of 5000 at the Albert Cricket Ground - and the fact that Carlton played 2 games against the Waratah side - one played under Rugby rules which Carlton lost (but not disgraced) and the second game played under Australian Rules which Carlton won by 6 goals to nil.
Author:  Robert Heatley [ Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
AGRO wrote:
AGRO wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I knew that Aussie Rules was earmarked as the colony's (NSW) chosen football code, and in a quick twist with a few coups like poaching a few Rugby Union greats, and an avid Australian Rules fan turned to Rugby League.



And an encounter with a shark in Sydney Harbour as well - I can remember reading about this somewhere - that an VFA official cut short his visit in Sydney (in around the 1880s) when he was due to meet some Sydney football officials - he was taken on a cruise about Sydney Harbour and their was an incident with a shark that so shook him up he cut short his visit and returned to Melbourne quick smart.

I do some research on this later tonight at home through my volumes because I am sure I have read this story somewhere. :?



I new I would find the reference - in Keith Dunstan's Book "The Paddock that grew" (revised edition 19974 - page 245 - he refers to a visit by George Coulthard (probably in reference to Carlton's tour of NSW in 1877:

The game up to this date had not spread to other colonies, but Phil Sheridan, a trustee of the Sydney Cricket Ground, became very interested. He invited George Coulthard, one of the best exponents of Victorian football, to go to Sydney with the idea of establishing it there. But Coulthard had an unfortunate experience. His host invited to join a fishing expedition in Sydney Harbour. While sitting on the side of the boat with his coat almost trailing in the water a savage shark seized the coat tails. If he had not parted company with the coat he would have been pulled into the water. This was all too much for Mr Coulthard and he promptly returned to Melbourne. So it could be argued that but for an unpleasant shark Australian Rules could be a major code in Sydney today.

However it seems Dunstan's view of Carlton's tour of NSW by this description gives little credit to the interest in the tour as indicated in "The Blue Boys" - by Brian Hansen and his description of Carlton's tour in 1877 on page 37 of his book.

He talks about crowds of 5000 at the Albert Cricket Ground - and the fact that Carlton played 2 games against the Waratah side - one played under Rugby rules which Carlton lost (but not disgraced) and the second game played under Australian Rules which Carlton won by 6 goals to nil.


Sydney wasn't a happy hunting ground for G Coulthard. If I can quote from "The Courage Book of Australian Test Cricket 1877 - 1974" regarding a match in Sydney in 1878/9 between NSW and England.

"When New South Wales was none for nineteen in the second innings the Victorian umpire G. Coulthard, who had been accompanying the English side up country beyond the Blue Mountains, gave Murdoch run out. [Murdoch was NSW player] His decision created an uproar and an 'unruly element' invaded the field. NSW and Australian captain David Gregory disputed Coulthard's decision. After a discussion with Gregory, Lord Harris returned to the pitchand while shielding Coulthard was struck by a 'larrikin'."

Another interesting aspect to this is that the umpire at the other end was Edmund Barton who was to become Australia's first prime minister.

Basically a ground invasion ensued, and Test Cricket between Australia and England was endangered.

So not only did Coulthard snuff out AFL in Sydney, he nearly buggered up Test Cricket as well!!
Author:  The Blueseum [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Blueseum: Carlton in NSW, 1890 (one for the tragics!)
http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-read_artic ... ticleId=84

We think that, thanks to blueycarlton, we've resolved one of the mysteries from this article of a few years ago. The team image listed 2 players by the name of McKenzie, but we could not find a listing of them in the player guide. Instead, one McKenzie - the second one (down the bottom, right) looks actually like forward Wally McKechnie...

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