1. Fevola spends too much time crying to or ***** with the umpires but it seems we have to take the good with the bad unless by some miracle he gains some immediate maturity. Unbeatable on the lead but is too inclined to try to out-muscle opponents when there is often another one coming over the top. He is our forward line.

2. Walker could be the CHF we so desperately need if he is given an opportunity. He has an motor that never stops, dynamic speed, a strong mark and exceptional ball handling skills. He is damn hard to matchup and can also create lots of defensive pressure up forward.

3. Betts has been impressive as a lead up forward as well as a mighty crumber - so much so that he provides a more reliable leading option than either Hartett or Edwards and has all the other tricks to bring to the table.

4. Fisher is not good enough to be a second or even third forward and his disposal is such that he has limited value as a lead up half forward. With Walker as number 2, Fish would be able to do his contested marking thing much more effectively and stay closer to goal.

5. Cloke is possibly the best contested mark in the club and has lots to offer as a backup ruckman rotating through the forward line.

6. Dead-eye Kreuzer is a consistent strong mark on the lead and also has lots to offer as a backup ruckman rotating through the forward line.

7. Houlihan is another better option than Fisher as a lead up HF. At least when Hoops gets the ball he can deliver it to Fev without floating it there. Also capable of contributing with some opportunist's goals.

8. We have also used utility types Wiggins and Russell as lead up forwards at various times. They will continue to provide this sort of option.

9. Waite is thrown forward in desperation on occasions and some keep calling for his return to CHF but, for mine, his shift to CHB is the best thing that could have happened. As a forward he tends to go missing for large chunks of a game and he is far too unreliable in his goal kicking. He still has away to go to match Silvagni as either a key defender or a pinch-hitting forward but I think he has more chance as a defender.

10. Ackland is probably done but, if Fev had been injured late in the season, Ackland might have been the best FF option available. He is surprisingly fast on the lead, can mark strongly and is very accurate kicking for goal.

11. Setanta is better suited to defence but if you want to stick a fast leading big body on the forward line to create some impact, I would prefer Setanta to either Hartlett or Edwards - if only to watch him celebrate every goal.

12. Edwards appears to have all the physical attributes but always seems to be where the ball isn't. Could be used as a leading forward because he has the speed to get a gap on any opponent and is a reliable shot for goal. Gives the impression he could develop into a Brad Pearce forward pocket type but can't even dominate in the VFL. Might be the sort of burst player who will frustrate at both levels but contribute a goal or three each week. Has the speed to exert lots of defensive pressure but rarely does.

13. Hartlett is not a great contested mark - he gets out-bodied much too easily - but is a reliable overhead mark on the lead. When he is on, he can kick long goals but his reliability comes and goes. Doesn't have a big tank and doesn't offer much in the way of defensive effort.

In summary, we have a big hole at CHF with only Walker talented enough to fill it. The other options are at best band-aid options that will not seriously threaten opposition teams. If we don't pick up a hard-working AFL standard CHF (an Earl Spalding type would do), we need to play Walker at CHF.

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Hey Rocky; there are too many rabbits ... in China.

Fev frustrates me as much as anyone, but thinking back on it now, too much gets made of how much he sooks to the umpires. You only need to watch how he's treated by defenders each week to understand his frustration. But having said that, when he cracks the sads with his own teammates and stops working, that's not acceptable.

A fit Walker could be a revelation in the fwd line. Good mark, good leap, improved kicking, great athleticism and some mongrel to boot. We need to keep this guy.

Fisher's only use is in the goalsquare, has to be. His kicking and work around the ground has gone downhill, but his hands are as strong as ever. Get him one-out in the square and use what now appears to be his only redeeming skill.

As for Cloke, he's in much the same boat as Fish but has the ability to kick the ball a decent distance too. GREAT contested mark, and always has a crack. We need him out of the ruck and up forward.

Edwards has been a massive disappointment for me. I was mightily impressed with him in the pre-season, and even in his first outing against the tigers. But seems lost out there. I'd give him 2009 to prove himself and leave it at that.

Hartlett is finished. I think we all realise this.

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WADA medical director Dr Alan Vernec describes Essendon* FC drug case as biggest scandal in team sport the world of sport has seen. #WC2WB

#GUILTY

Agree with most of what you have written RR however am not sure about Walker as a CHF. I think he could be a valuable 3rd forward option however.
Fisher clearly isn't up to it whilst I can't see Cloke doing much against quality opposition on a regular basis.

Maybe Kruezer will develop into a gun CHF and we could play Hampson and Jacobs in the ruck?

The lack of a quality tall forward is our biggest problem at the moment.......otherwise things are going along just fine IMO.

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There is no footy god

I guess we can't improve this area if we trade pick 6...we don't have the personnel at the moment so we need to keep using the draft to improve out depth.

Fevola - B+
99 is a great return for a full-forward...but to our detriment, we're too Fevola focussed when we go into the forward 50. Really looking forward to seeing what he can do in '09 - will be thrilled with 75+ with more help from others.

Fisher - D
Tries hard, great set of hands, but can't kick consistently. 25 goals / 20 behinds for the year definitely not good enough. Was signed for 2009 and 2010 in June.

Cloke - C
Played in the ruck for the most part, but his last month of footy was very good and showed what a good pack mark he can be. Having said that - only averaged 6 marks per game this season and kicked 13.6 in his 19 games.

Betts - C+
25 goals...not too bad....but probably needs a bit more consistency. Not a midfielder...a forward only and i dare say as such is one of the first selected each week.

Hartlett / Edwards - E

Dilemma is finding a consistent forward that can play alongside Fev - take a contested mark, kick straight over distance and will return 40+ goals per year.

Fevola's performance is an A. It is the second most goals ever in the clubs history. His forward pressure was there all year. Body language improved. It is a fallacy that he is inconsistent. He has averaged 70 goals over the past six seasons. That would place him 4th on the goal kicking table most years.

I've been critical of Fisher this year, and I think he is lucky not to have had a stint in the Bullants in the 2nd half of the season. But the problem is that there hasn't been anywhere enough pressure coming from underneath....

Edwards - handled himself reasonably well in the 5 games he played for Carlton, but he has looked VERY ordinary at times in the VFL. Doesn't get himself involved in anywhere near enough contests for mine. Has good athleticism and skills, but his work-rate, courage and footy smarts are questionable IMO. A bit of a one-trick pony (fast leading forward, a la Brad Pearce, as RR said). He'll only be 21 in January, but I'm ready to give up on him to be honest.

Harts - still makes too many clangers, but, overall, he has improved significantly over the last 12 months. Injury prone, and questionable tank, but I would give him another year. Has the depth in his kicking to kick over the flood, is aggressive, and has a strong pair of hands. Mobility and team-ethic don't come naturally to him, but he has clearly worked hard to improve in those areas. If his body can stand up to AFL, he could still be a late developer. Having said that, in the cut-throat world of AFL, he will probably get delisted.

I agree with RR that Waite should remain in defence. He's always been very inconsistent as a forward, and I like what he has given us off HB this year. It's good that he has the versitility to go forward or into the midfield, but I think HB should be his starting position most weeks.

The only blokes on our list that look like a possible future AFL standard CHF for us are Walker or Kreuzer. Due to a shortage of alternatives, I'd give Harts another year (but I'll admit he's only an outside chance of making it). Waite, Cloke and Setanta can be rotated through there, but I don't see them as long-term forward solutions.

I think Rats and the MC (and WH) have done a good job addressing our problems in defence, but there is still a lot of work to be done in sorting out our forward line...

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

don't know about this Walker at CHF business...... His running power and speed would be telling on the ball. With a pre-season under his belt he'll be ready for next year definitely.

And agreed, that leaves just Kreuzer for next season (or whomever we draft if we get a tall).

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Love Cricket? Love me

Yeah, A- for Fev for what it's worth.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I personally can't see much of a future for Fisher, Cloke, Houlihan and Ackland as forwards if were looking at competing for a flag.

The first three I named have been good at times but lack consistancy in performance to be considered dangerous enough for the opposition to take some of their focus off Fevola to place on them.

Still undecided on Hartlett and Edwards. I could pick 6 other listed players to delist to free up for Jamo's and Jacobs' promotions and 4 National Draft picks (which I think is enough).

Edwards could be our Rusling

I wonder if next season, after the success/disappointment of finishing on 99, if we can consider - rather than stare at the hole at CHF and say "woe is us" or expect wonders from an 18 year old, we could consider a reshuffle of the talent we have.

Maybe a move of Fev for parts of matches to CHF... work on his endurance a bit, use his field kicking to effect, and bring Edwards in to use as a quick lead out of the square

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Love Cricket? Love me

Yeah, I was surprised they didn't try something like that more often this year. Even leaving Edwards out of the equation for a moment (basically because I don't rate him!), Fisher is pretty hopeless when he plays high, so I'm surprised at how long Ratts persisted with that and didn't move Fev up the ground and Fish closer to goal more often (although it makes sense to have Fev getting the ball inside 50 as much as possible!). Fev's tank might have been part of the issue. About 6 weeks ago or so I was erring on the side of wanting Edwards to get another chance next year, but I've moved towards thinking we might be better off moving him on now..the harsh reality of AFL football, I guess..

I like Walker in the forward line because I think he could play the modern CHF role, and also has enough dash on the lead to rotate out of the goal square. Fev/Walker/Kreuzer (all with full pre-seasons) could give opposition defenders some headaches in 2009, if we can get the right system into the structure..

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Weakest part of our list. Fevola is the only good tall fwd we have and is 28 next year. If we keep our picks which I am leaning towards doing, then we simply must get a good KPP.

Fev is our only consistent option......Walker wont ever be a CHF.
Kruezer is still learning the game but I see him as our next best forward option and Cloke is a handy backup player but not A grade material.

Edwards isnt good enough and Fisher apart from his marking doesnt give us enough...

Eddie does his job when fit but we lack another clever small/mid size forward who can kick the freaky goal ie Didak, Steve Johnson, Daniel Motlop type as well as the Roughead KPP type who can play second fiddle to Fev but also win you games when Fev is covered.

Bit of recruiting to be done in the forward line area and not short term stuff either like topping up with a Scott Welsh type..we dont need bandaids we need long term solutions...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I think Ratts has done a good job this year but I do believe that the forward structure has been his weakest area, we have been far to Fev concious.

We have certainly had deficiencies through injuries to Walker and Hoops which havent helped but the times when we came back into games or started games well we had a good forward structure.

The port and lions wins where we came from behind highlighted that when waite/krueze were moved forward and Fev pushed up to 30/40 mtrs from goal area worked well.

I just dont think Fev will work hard enough to move out there for long periods, his defensive effort when trying to get the 100 was something I wished we could see more (and has been there at times this year) but chances are these kinds of effort will be spasmodic.

It is very hard to judge (given the injuries we've had and the Fevcentric set up) but I think that with a better structure we have the players (when all fit and up and running) to have a dangerous and potent forward line, we just lack alot of cohesion and are too focussed on Fev.

In some respects I wonder if we had Fev out of the team (injury or suspension not ommission) for a couple of weeks during the year whether we would have seen a more tactical and robust forward set up?

Anyway Im sure it will be analysed thoroughly during the off season.

I think that alot of posters are looking for 6 elite A+ players in order for a forward line to work or to win a flag. The reality is that only 2 A+ players are required to win a flag, so rather than looking to wipe the floor and start again, we need to look at what we have and make it work.

Of the players we have - Fev, Hoops, Walks, Betts, Cloke / Kruise and Russel I think we can make a functioning forward line.
We have 3 players in Fev, Cloke and Kruise who can take contested marks and all three are good convertors.
Betts and Hoops are two natural crumbers and should provide the mobility that we need.
Russel and Walks are good reliable marks and can hit up players whilst providing the defensive pressure that is critical in the modern game.

The only peice missing is the structure and education of the players on making the right decisions rather than bomb it to Fev. Perhaps we can come up with an Einstein award where players can recieve points on the decisions made that follow team principles with bonus points for score assists.

..we've got the talent to fill out the forward line and have a couple of other options for depth in case of injury.. ..problem is at CHF.. ..it's all well and good to see which player we can make into a CHF.. ..cloke, walks, kruze have been mentioned as likely types, but in my opinion yer better off going with an actual CHF that has that natural instinct.. ..Waite is wasted in defence, he struggles back there when body on body, and he's too good to have running about loose down there when we've got no bloody CHF.. ..bower is better body on body and also great as loose man and provides just as much run off the backline.. ..down back you've got jamo, thornton and bower, with austin and setanta as backups.. ..defence is coming along, waite helped back there in 2008, and if anything he can now bring that consistency and maturity from 2007/8 and use it up forward..

F - Betts Fev Hoops
HFF - Stevo Waite Walks

..that'd be my 2009 forward line..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Agree with Walks being capable for CHF, he has similar a body type, skills, marking ability and mor speed than Murphy from WB. But I think he could/should do that role off a flank and if possible get a big bodied, strong marking, long kicking chap for CHF. Walks might be the fill in.

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The climbing has alread began

Fevola - 10 out of 10.
So what he sooks at the umpires? He's postivies far outweight the negatives. 99 goals from somebody who is doubled AND tripled up on is outstanding!


Fisher - 4 out of 10.
Used to love him, and still do, but sadly i don't think he can fit into this team anymore. He's past development stage now and his kicking for goals and general skills around the ground are just not gonna cut it anymore in a continually improving team. In fact, you could argue that Fisher's poor-dissposal has cost us more games then Fevola's sooking EVER HAS! Speaking of Fev, i constantly see Fisher leading into Fevola's line.... annoys me! (Anybody else ever notice that?)
Brilliant mark though! Just wonderfull to watch!

Betts - 6.5 out of 10.
Much needed player and we missed him. Even if he doesn't kick goals, he creates preasure in our forward 50 and keeps the ball there! Does his job!

Waite - ???????
Most people want him down back, but i'd love to see him team up with Fevola up forward. I remember a few years back when he kicked 40+ goals! Looked awesome. I can't rate him cause he's played most of his time down back. But if Setanta comes back, i'd love to see Waite play at least 6 games up forward with Fevola and see how they go together!


Walker - ???????
Can't rate him either cause he's been injured. But i like him more on the Flanks or through the centre. He has far too much pace and his run is needed through the ground. Did look awesome up forward thou.


Edwards / Hartlett
Don't think they're gonna make it. Edwards i still have a bit of faith in, but it's droping rapidly. Hartlett i have none in. I did look at him once as being our next Aaron Hamill type but he just doesn't look up to it. Trade him and Russell back to Port for whatever!

Kreuzer - 7 out of 10.
For a kid to come in and kick 15 goals 1 for the season (?) whilst playing in the ruck AND winning a game of his own boot is just a massive achievment. Sure, Cyrol Rioli or Rhys Palmer will be much deserving when they take out the NAB Rising Star Award, but Kreuzer has done some very special things that very few can do. Considering he is only usualy having around 60-70% game time too. Great on the lead, good mark and an dead-eye-dick at goal! Brilliant!



In 09':

IF Setanta comes back fit, I'd like to see Fevola and Waite team up together in the Forward line. With maybe Cloke or Kreuzer at CHF whilst rotating in the ruck.
But i think we need to start looking at drafting a forward now or pretty soon. Fevola has maybe 5-6 years left in him, perfect amount of time to draft/develop his replacement!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

If you can't comforably make the distance with a set-shot from 55m, you aren't going to play CHF.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.