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How can we beat the Zone
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Author:  badbuzz [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  How can we beat the Zone
Not worried about last nights result, just keen to hear geniune way's we can improve our game against sides which employ this tactic. Take into account that two out of the three heaviest losses this season were against north and hawthorn. Both sides used this tactic with great effect.

Thoughts are that the one way of beating this zone (basketball terms-full court press) is that you run and carry the ball and dispose of it accurately. If able to do so, you should be able to penetrate their midfield and kick it to an open forward line. Hence loading our forward line last night with marking options, was a good plan, the only hurdle was to push through the zone to delivery into our forward line accurately.

Go Blues
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
You need players that are prepared to gut run....

We have some ... but not as many as other teams...

We have too many players that either cant run... dont get taught where to position themseves in that situation or cant get their hands on the ball...
Author:  true_blue3 [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 
i don't know if ratten's game plan of getting us to hold onto the ball until we find a clear option is the way to go. it hink if we just tried to move it quickly like the top 3 sides all do we'd beat this zone much easier.

it seemed to me last night as if whenever we had the ball there was absolutely nothing to kick to, there were just packs everywhere. but when hawthorn had the ball all their players seemed to be lined up across the centre and up the wing or corridor and this would allow them to move the ball really quickly while maintaining possession at the same time. i don't knnow if this was just becasue they worked harder than us or are fitter than us but it was really really frustrating to watch.

oh and a good centre half forward/target apart from fev wouldn't be too bad either.
Author:  nightcrawler [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:01 am ]
Post subject: 
I don't think carrying the ball through the zone actually works that well. The Hawks illegally impede runners off the ball to stop one-two handballs, so the guy carrying the ball just ends up running into 2-3 hawks players with no-one to give it off to. The Hawks are increasingly blatant about it and there is no penalty for it. Even if a free kick gets called, that just gives them time to get numbers back and reset their zone.

Beating the zone is IMO more to with selective playing-on an extremely accurate foot passing than anything else.
Author:  badbuzz [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Agree we do look very heavy footed at times, but could it be the tactic which is causing this result. Our answer to the zone seemed to be to give and go in hope to cause the zone to shift and create openings further up the ground, at times we looked stagnant waiting for the ball to carry through.

Last night showed how discipline hawthorn are in maintaing the structure up the ground. The few times the ball found its way through the zone a loose disposal found a hawthorn player who inturned found two or more hawks running the opposite direction without an opponent. Precise disposal is paramount. The doggies played the hawks and used their disposal to great effect. Even with few forward targets they managed to hurt the hawks defence. Not sure if they will repeat the dose, would like to see it though!
Author:  true_blue3 [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:30 am ]
Post subject: 
nightcrawler wrote:
I don't think carrying the ball through the zone actually works that well. The Hawks illegally impede runners off the ball to stop one-two handballs, so the guy carrying the ball just ends up running into 2-3 hawks players with no-one to give it off to. The Hawks are increasingly blatant about it and there is no penalty for it. Even if a free kick gets called, that just gives them time to get numbers back and reset their zone.


exactly, and there were some extremely blatant examples of this last night. the worst one i saw was gibbs give off a handpass at centre half back and as he was running to receive the one-two, three hawks players just cannoned into him and made absolutely no attempt to disguise it. i also saw this happen to judd twice on the wing and grigg once at half forward though these ones weren't as bad as the gibbs one. you're spot on though, even if it is a free kick they still win as it gives them opportunity to get back and set up. and as immoral as it is, i would like to see us employ this tactic too, the game's about winning and you do whatever you can to achieve that.
Author:  DocSherrin III [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
The 'cluster' was as evident last night as it was against the Pies earlier in the year when the Hawks smashed them at the 'G - so they do it well there as well.

I think we tried to chip it around and it just didn't work. They were well drilled in this - but I'm not convinced that we should adopt it as some near me last night were suggesting.
Author:  Wangers [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
You beat it by playing man on man, if the dawks player runs at you, the opposing player shepards and creates the pathway for the ball carrier to look upfield.

Quite often, we zoned off and allowed them to play their style on their terms.
Author:  Mighty Blues [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Agree with Synbad, gut runnning, but also discipline. If you were at the game last night, as soon as someone was lining up for goals the whole hawthorn team was setting up incase he missed the shot, so as soon as carlton were ready to kick in the hawks had there zone in place. This is a reason they are well above us. We need to be smarter, faster and more dicsiplined! You can only beat the smart teams by being smart yourselves.
Author:  Donstuie [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Doggies and the Tigers had no problems with this, and as Synners said, it's because they were prepared to run and carry and get them on the back foot. Our two biggest gameplan flaws are our decision making but also our tendency to get flat-footed, especially up forward. Two things that teams like the hawks and the cats exploit to perfection. Again, if we played the 4 qtrs like we play our last qtrs, we'd have no worries. Don't allow them the time to settle, and it won't be a problem.
Author:  zoneman [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
nightcrawler wrote:
I don't think carrying the ball through the zone actually works that well. The Hawks illegally impede runners off the ball to stop one-two handballs, so the guy carrying the ball just ends up running into 2-3 hawks players with no-one to give it off to. The Hawks are increasingly blatant about it and there is no penalty for it. Even if a free kick gets called, that just gives them time to get numbers back and reset their zone.

Beating the zone is IMO more to with selective playing-on an extremely accurate foot passing than anything else.


It's a good point - maybe it should come with a fifty metre penalty!

I think there are some good points all round here. It's the hard running which is reallyteh issue. We didn't do it. Fev recognized in his post match interview - that we must improve ourselves over 400 metre in pre-season training.

We're a developing team. We need to run hard and we have to be stronger too - nto get outbustled in the tight contests.
Author:  tommi [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow..............

that's all ya GOT Zoneman................?


kindest regards tommi
Author:  zoneman [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
There's more added there Tommi - it's still gibberish though! :wink:
Author:  Blue Sombrero [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:32 am ]
Post subject: 
All ball sports are played on the edge of legality, including ours. Those who can remember the ten yard penalty will recall that at some point teams decided it was worth giving one away to set up downfield. So it went to 15 briefly until the (then) VFL decided that there was no disincentive for time-wasting tactics with such a small penalty. We went from about thirty 15 yard panalties a game to about two 50 metre ones.
Once upon a time teams used to kick the ball out deliberately as well (See Robert Walls's article on the '68 GF) That was in the days when rucks could tap to a rover instead of in the general direction of their own feet. The (then) VFL decided to make it a possession to the opposition so all of a sudden it stopped happening, except by accident. It and time wasting by detaining players now hardly exists so coaches have to look at other ways to waste time or guarantee possession.
The most recent ones are the rushed behind, which used to be used by desperate backs to stop a goal but is now used for that as well as setting up a set play from a kickout. In other words, it is being used as a mark, with no real penalty. The AFL will almost certainly make a deliberate rushed behind a 3 pointer to stop this with in the next two years.
The other one, is this blocking one, a deliberate attempt to stop a player getting an 80 metre possession by running and kicking or running and recieving. As stated, if a free is given away, it still allows the defending team to set up the zone. This is a tricky one but in Rugby and Rugby League, the 'professional' penalty has been cut out by awarding a shot for goal if in range or a penalty try if it has prevented a player from taking possession in a try-scoring position. Guess what. It stopped 99% of the 'professional' fouls in the first week. If the AFL thinks this is becoming a problem, they will put in a suitable deterrent, such as a free with a 50 metre penalty or in the case of continued deliberate infractions, there exists within the rules, the ability for the umpires to report a player for deliberately wasting time.
We can't blame Hawthorn for using this tactic because it is still worth the risk. We will use it next year if Ratts thinks it's worth trying. Then someone else will try it and finally the AFL will stop it or make it not worth the penalty. It's all part of the innovation of the game, along with flooding, the 400 possession game and 100 interchanges.
Good teams will beat it. Instead of whingeing, lets develop a better gameplan.
Author:  Jarusa [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I think there might have been some instructions from Ratten to break the lines and play on. However, it did not quite work out, quite a few of our players got caught with the ball trying to do this in the first half and they seemed to get a bit gunshy after that.
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