TalkingCarlton :: View topic - 2008: Pros and Cons

10 wins is a good achievement

12 wins and a spot in the eight beckons but for that to be achieved certain things need to occur

Obviously we need another key forward
Cloke tries hard but is too slow
Forget Hartlett
In the games i saw he went to ground too easy. never saw him take a pack mark. Too slow and it aint tough beltin blokes behind the play.

I would love to see Waite as the 3rd tall up forward

Fisher may keep his spot but ultimately he isnt good enough. Too slow not big enough.

Our defense has been where we have improved the most. Bower has been fantastic.can play on shorts and talls. Most improved player .

Jamison is a gun as well. We probably need a big mother for your power forwards. Carlos is the man for the job at the moment.

Armfield and Browne have been good recruits. I reckon Anderson can become a fine defender but he must improve his kicking.
From what I saw last night he has a future

Another small forward would help Betts. I have hopes it can be Aaron Joseph.
The rucks obviously need work. Please Carlton dont waste a spot on the list with a Jeff White.

Hampson has a long way to go but has a huge upside. Kreuzer is a beauty but I would love to see him more as a running player playing forward.

Our bottom six are holding us back .

IMO the MC mus but the bullett with some players who play pathetic unaccountable footy
I know we will be improving when Houlihan and Stevens arnt getting a game.

The disappointing thing for me this year was in the big games against North , Geelong and Hawthorn we were well and truly smashed.

We get found out because we arnt good enough still which is to expected but certain players who star against similar or weaker opposition get found out against real pressure teams.

If we are to move forward peformances from some simply cant be tolerated.

You cant have one soft cock in your team. It bites you on the arse eventually like last night.

If that means we take a step backwards for a while so be it.

We are six or so players off being a top team.

This draft is crucial.

In our first 2 picks we must pick a key forward and hope he develops to take the heat of Fev.

And well done to Fev.

Yep you are a moron.

A loveable one though

And to kick 99 goals in a still average side with 3 guys on you nearly all the time is an awesome achievement

Roll on 09.

Author:	Donstuie [ Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:	2008: Pros and Cons
How will we remember 2008? For me, it's the year we finally took a stand against the rest of the AFL giving us wedgies and through the use of a single middle finger telling them in a booming voice to @#$%&! off. Pros: - Judd: Leadership has finally returned to the Carlton Football Club - Murphy and Gibbs: Mark it down, the next Ablett and Bartel - Kreuzer: What I love most about this guy is that he's a natural footballer. Not an athlete reprogrammed, but a guy with good instincts and a never say die attitude. - Bower, Jamison and Grigg: Hands down our most improved players this year - Waite: Has come of age this year, could be among the elite backmen in the AFL next year - Never saying DIE: Come from behind wins a feature of our games where in the past we would've rolled over and allow ourselves to be raped - Ratts, Riley, Crosisca, Braddles, Diesel: A combination of favourite sons and "young" thinkers. A much better combination than our antiquated predecessors. - Pratt: THANK YOU - Swann: THANK YOU - Sticks: @#$%&! the rest! - Fev: Love him or hate him, it's blokes like this that make people see football games. - BEATING COLLINGWOOD TWICE!!! Cons: - Injuries to key personnel at the wrong times at the beginning of the season - Losing games we should've won. Cost us a finals berth on more than one occasion. - LOSING TO Essendon* AND ST KILDA TWICE!!! - Coughing up goals in time-on!!! - Switching off for quarters at a time, putting us in a position where we have to come from behind all the time. - Disposal: Too many turnovers, too many goals coming from turnovers, poor kicking for goal, poor kick-ins and decision making - RAY FLOWERING CHAMBERLAIN!!! - Off-field dramas and innuendos that just won't stop, regardless of the skeletons in other clubs' closets - Fisher, Carrots, Stevo: Senior players phasing in and out of games. Especially in Stevo's case, going from BOG one week to deplorable the next on a regular basis. - Lack of ruck options, a genuine crumber (besides Eddie), CHF, too Fev conscious. - Falling over like a house of cards when faced with the better teams in the comp, seeming to do the opposite of what we do when we're winning In summary... WE'RE COMING YOU FLOWERS BRING ON 2009!

Author:	TwinOne [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:14 am ]
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Maybe its because the only two games I have been to in the past 8 weeks have been the last two at Telstra Dome, and the last game before that was St Kilda at the MCG but I am pretty disappointed with the second half of the season to be honest. In the North Melbourne and Hawthorn games in particular, our 'rolls royce' midfield were smashed. I waited in the cold for 2 hours to get into TD tonight and I think that showed more commitment to the game than 1/2 the players. Even Fremantle were able to put on a show on Friday - really it looked like, except for Judd, Gibbs, Walker and Fevola (particularly late ) there was no interest or support. Things that need improvement if we are to be a hope for September action: 1) 4 quarters of accountable football 2) Recruit a backline coach who knows something about kickout structures - woeful all season 3) Either sharpen your skills or play in the Bullants: Carrazzo, Fisher, RUSSELL, Wiggins, Bentick, we concede so many turnovers from bad kicks and handballs 4) Someone tell Armfield (and Carrazzo, particularly on Milne) that they need to be goal-side of their men. 5) If plan A fails, there should at least be a plan B. Ratts made no moves to curb Harvey's dominance against North or to stop Hodge loading the Hawks up from half-back. 6) We've got the fitness so lets see some gut-busting running to support. So many times Judd/Murphy go in and get the ball and have no one to give it to. 7) Don't waste pick 6 getting a has-been ruckman or Kerr. Lets grow our team like Hawthorn and Geelong have done even if it takes 3 years. I know its really negative, but I didn't see much tonight to give me much belief that we are a chance for finals in 2009. - TwinOne

Author:	17th Premiership [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:50 am ]
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Overall, a B. Was expecting 8-10 wins & we finished at the top of that range. We mostly beat the teams we should have beaten, including all the teams below us except Essendon*! However, we did not nail this. On the flipside, we beat some teams who we were not expected to beat including Coll twice, Brisbane, Bulldogs & Port Adelaide (the 1st time). I think our 2nd half was much better than our first half, beating Coll, Bulldogs & Brisbane & running Adelaide & Sydney very close. From a development perspective, we have seen many of our youngsters progress as hoped, including Bower, Grigg, Jamo, Gibbs, Murphy, Kruez etc. We have the makings of a classy defensive group. They will get better. We could also use another quality backman but they are heading in the right direction. I am very happy with our midfield and think this will continue to develop into the best midfield group in the comp over the next couple of years. I don't really think we need to get Kerr, if it means giving up our 1st draft pick. We need the draft pick more. Oh, & I reckon Stevens will be much better after a proper pre-season & a year down the track from his disappointment for missing captaincy and his neck injury. i am worried about our forward line. As I have said before, I am less concerned about the personnel than I am about the strategy going into the forward line. Having said that, I think part of the challenge is to better balance the way we share it around up the ground without stopping on the wing & waiting for the opposition to crowd our forward line. I don't think J Brown is the solution here either. I would prefer to have a better strategy. This shoudl be Ratts' no.1 priority over summer. The rucks are still our biggest immediate concern but I think they will develop nicely. Am 50-50 on the idea of going for Brogan, Warnock, Lade, White.... Maybe Brogan or Lade for a year to help teach Krampson the ropes or Warnock, if we don't think Hampson/Jacobs will make it. But I wouldn't want to go in & throw everything at them. Not sure... On Ratten, a solid year but jury still out. He certainly has the boys playing for him, is injecting his personality into the way we play which is great. Still not convinced about the game plan but I expect he will seek solutions to improve over the summer. Looking forward: 1) Don't give up our 1st draft pick. Pretty good top 10 - could pick up a gun at no.6. 1a) Don't be distracted by chasing Brown or Kerr. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. We've got Judd. I don't want to inherit the West Coast midfield. We can do this ourselves from here! 2) Develop a stronger strategy for taking the ball into the forward line. 3) Work on our skills - too many half volleys, fumbles. 4) Keep doing everything else we have been doing. I hope we persist with Setanta, Wiggins, Houlihan. Would prefer to see Russell stay. I still think he is on an upward curve, but could live with a trade. I think Judd will just EXPLODE next year, if he can get a full pre-season under his belt. Murphy, Gibbs & Walker will go to the next level. Kreuz will probably rocket ahead but if he plateaus out for a year, it wouldn't worry me. Would like to see improvement from Fisher, Hampson, Pfeiffer & would be good to see Hadley play a full year injury free. If we can continue to improve, cut out the bulk of the skill errors and stopping losing the plot for quarters at a time, we should definitely play finals next year and perhaps even do it comfortably (5th or 6th). Who knows, if we play to our potential and others don't (like this year) we could find ourselves going top 4!!!

Author:	blue4 [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:40 am ]
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it was a good year where the boys finished above expectations

Author:	bluedog [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:01 am ]
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Pro: On- and off-field development. Con: Insipid white clash thing worn again.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

2008: Pros and Cons http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22672	Page 1 of 1

Author:	hollywood43 [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:54 am ]
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In the cold hard light of day you really have to be happy with the Blues season in 2008. 10 wins is a big improvement and further to that, the young guys all showed they will cut it and become very solid players for us. Murphy, Gibbs and Kruzer will become one of the best trios in the comp next season! Fev and Judd are our marquee players and out and out stars! Next season finals for sure! CONS: We need another forward option... one that opposition teams will need to respect and man up

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:58 am ]
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Pros The kids are doing great!!! Cons We still havent worked out a gameplan when the squeeze is on .. or alternative routes going forward..massive year ahead if we can work on those things over the preseason we should be able to take some pretty big steps going forward in this comp..

Author:	Wild Blue Yonder [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:00 am ]
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I'd kill for a hard ass Mitch Hahn type around the stoppages.

Author:	Melvey [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:16 am ]
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If you would have said to me at the start of 2008 Carlton would win 10 games i'd taken that for sure. I thought we might win 6-8. It's been a better year than previous. Last night at the game they were replaying a game few years back against the hawks. Playing for Carlton were the likes of Chambers and Whitnal and i said to a mate we've actually come a long way from when you think of current players who pulled on the navy blue jumper like Prenda, Sporn, Davies, Longmuir, Chambers, Johnson and Deluca replaced with Juddy, Murph, Gibbs, Grigg, Bower, Krooze and Jammo. Looks very very promising indeed. Until we can find great users of the ball by foot off half back we going no where. The Hawks had Hodge, Gilham, Burchill and Young running hard off half back and killing us by foot. The club needs to make a decision on settling 3 tall's down back and finding us some hard running skillful HBF to create drive off he backline Our second tier running brigade are just not up to it. Gibbs, Murphy, Judd and Fev all had ripping games and we went down by 70+ points. Thats a major concern There's still allot of work to be done and we need to smart at the trade table and even more important recruiting. We have several deficiencies we need to address going into 2009. On the trade table and draft: We need to find another tall forward and a small exciting forward, an inside hardball winner, we need to inject some hard running skillful boys off half back. The question is which do we target with our first pic?? you know you have a long way to go when you head into the draft with needing more than you can chose from Skills: Poor kicking has really hurt us this year especially off half back where games can be ripped open. Another major concern is our inclose ball work. We just not clean enough in tight and a pack work is a shambles. Every game i've been to more the top eight sides we've come up against always seem to have players who sneak off to the side or back of back to clear the ball out with hard running. Something that we just don't do Run: WE DON'T RUN HARD ENOUGH. Our midfield is going well but its our second tier midfield and runners that are not up to it. If i would have told you that Murph, Gibbs and Juddy had 30+ possessions and Fev kicks 7 you would have thought we won.

Author:	Melvey [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:18 am ]
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Wild Blue Yonder wrote: I'd kill for a hard ass Mitch Hahn type around the stoppages. or a Josh Hunt with his pin point accuracy breaking games open off half back hitting running targets on the wing who will get the ball into the 50 quick giving Fev or .....?? um, Fev every opportunity to be one out

Author:	keogh [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:19 am ]
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10 wins is a good achievement 12 wins and a spot in the eight beckons but for that to be achieved certain things need to occur Obviously we need another key forward Cloke tries hard but is too slow Forget Hartlett In the games i saw he went to ground too easy. never saw him take a pack mark. Too slow and it aint tough beltin blokes behind the play. I would love to see Waite as the 3rd tall up forward Fisher may keep his spot but ultimately he isnt good enough. Too slow not big enough. Our defense has been where we have improved the most. Bower has been fantastic.can play on shorts and talls. Most improved player . Jamison is a gun as well. We probably need a big mother for your power forwards. Carlos is the man for the job at the moment. Armfield and Browne have been good recruits. I reckon Anderson can become a fine defender but he must improve his kicking. From what I saw last night he has a future Another small forward would help Betts. I have hopes it can be Aaron Joseph. The rucks obviously need work. Please Carlton dont waste a spot on the list with a Jeff White. Hampson has a long way to go but has a huge upside. Kreuzer is a beauty but I would love to see him more as a running player playing forward. Our bottom six are holding us back . IMO the MC mus but the bullett with some players who play pathetic unaccountable footy I know we will be improving when Houlihan and Stevens arnt getting a game. The disappointing thing for me this year was in the big games against North , Geelong and Hawthorn we were well and truly smashed. We get found out because we arnt good enough still which is to expected but certain players who star against similar or weaker opposition get found out against real pressure teams. If we are to move forward peformances from some simply cant be tolerated. You cant have one soft cock in your team. It bites you on the arse eventually like last night. If that means we take a step backwards for a while so be it. We are six or so players off being a top team. This draft is crucial. In our first 2 picks we must pick a key forward and hope he develops to take the heat of Fev. And well done to Fev. Yep you are a moron. A loveable one though And to kick 99 goals in a still average side with 3 guys on you nearly all the time is an awesome achievement Roll on 09.

Author:	hollywood43 [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:41 pm ]
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Couldnt agree more on all points Keogh... that post is spot on!

Author:	cj69 [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:22 pm ]
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keogh wrote: 10 wins is a good achievement 12 wins and a spot in the eight beckons but for that to be achieved certain things need to occur Obviously we need another key forward Cloke tries hard but is too slow Forget Hartlett In the games i saw he went to ground too easy. never saw him take a pack mark. Too slow and it aint tough beltin blokes behind the play. I would love to see Waite as the 3rd tall up forward Fisher may keep his spot but ultimately he isnt good enough. Too slow not big enough. Our defense has been where we have improved the most. Bower has been fantastic.can play on shorts and talls. Most improved player . Jamison is a gun as well. We probably need a big mother for your power forwards. Carlos is the man for the job at the moment. Armfield and Browne have been good recruits. I reckon Anderson can become a fine defender but he must improve his kicking. From what I saw last night he has a future Another small forward would help Betts. I have hopes it can be Aaron Joseph. The rucks obviously need work. Please Carlton dont waste a spot on the list with a Jeff White. Hampson has a long way to go but has a huge upside. Kreuzer is a beauty but I would love to see him more as a running player playing forward. Our bottom six are holding us back . IMO the MC mus but the bullett with some players who play pathetic unaccountable footy I know we will be improving when Houlihan and Stevens arnt getting a game. The disappointing thing for me this year was in the big games against North , Geelong and Hawthorn we were well and truly smashed. We get found out because we arnt good enough still which is to expected but certain players who star against similar or weaker opposition get found out against real pressure teams. If we are to move forward peformances from some simply cant be tolerated. You cant have one soft cock in your team. It bites you on the arse eventually like last night. If that means we take a step backwards for a while so be it. We are six or so players off being a top team. This draft is crucial. In our first 2 picks we must pick a key forward and hope he develops to take the heat of Fev. And well done to Fev. Yep you are a moron. A loveable one though And to kick 99 goals in a still average side with 3 guys on you nearly all the time is an awesome achievement Roll on 09. Pretty much spot on for me Keogh! Big decisions need to be made over the next few weeks. The wrong ones could set us back, the right ones and we could be right in the finals mix next season. For me: Cloke could be an answer up forward. Good mark and good skills. Our big problem is how we deliver into fwd line and at the speed we do it. A forward line of Fev, Cloke/Kruezer, Hadley/Waite, Houlihan/Betts has some potential if we deliver it properly. Grigg, Anderson, Armfield, Browne are our small defender future, with help from Walker, Scotland & Bannister. I like Bower at FB, Austin at CHB and Jamo as third tall defender. Our ruckman or Waite on a wing need to get back and help. Betts needs to get fitter and spend some time on the ball otherwise he will suffer being stuck in a FP. A list with Rucks Kruezer, Hampson, Jacobs & Cloke as a back up might be enough but I would mind one more. Maybe a mature rookie? Setanta is interesting, be helpful from several points but if rumours are true he might be gone. For me Joseph is an on baller not a small fwd. Was a ball magnet at U18's. A big preseason is a must!!! Any player not in mint condition by Round one should NOT be considered for selection whoever they are. Need some bigger bodies and Bannister & Hadley will help. If we can recruit another good player that will help but we must keep Pick 6!

Author:	shuffagus [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:03 pm ]
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PRO: improvement down back

Author:	lara #25 [ Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:53 am ]
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PRO: - Judd actually does play for Carlton...(wasnt a dream) - 10 wins - vast improvement in our defence... bower for me has shown the most in this area - change in team and supporter attitudes... a 40-point loss is no longer 'respectable' like the pagan days! - finally starting to feel good after so many years down the bottom...have learnt to enjoy going to games again and expect a win! - we are one year closer to our next flag - The Pies had a few 'pies' thrown in their face... a pretty embarassing season off-field with all the bad investements (players and finances) - my brisbane-supporting family finally ate some humble pie in round 21! CON: - Captain Carlton is still our mascot - He now has an odd-looking drink carton and a recycling bin to back him up - Collingwood made the finals again! (when are they gonna bottom out? ) - round 1 is 7 months away!

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Author:	Fabulous [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:18 pm ]
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PROS - The team now has self belief and confidence - The development of Smurph, Gibbs, Humphrey, Grigg, Jamo, Bower etc - Judd and his Leadership...What a great mentor for these young players. He leads from the front and is a model professional - Fev... What a STAR CONS - We still have too many passengers in the line up who keep relying on Judd and Fev, to do the hard work - On the whole we still make too many errors with our disposal - We still lack the defensive pressure in our game. We still can’t tackle properly, and I rarely see players do gut busting runs

Author:	Car17on [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2008: Pros and Cons
Donstuie wrote: WE'RE COMING YOU FLOWERS BRING ON 2009! Just about says it all, DS!

Author:	thehalford [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:11 pm ]
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http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... hp?t=22406

Author:	bluedog [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:07 pm ]
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Unusual con: Defeating Richmond in round 14. A loss would have seen the filth finish out of the 8.

Author:	Andain [ Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:21 pm ]
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bluedog wrote: Unusual con: Defeating Richmond in round 14. A loss would have seen the filth finish out of the 8. But would've seen Richmond in the eight, and us with two losses to Richmond this year. Beating Richmond is always a postive.