TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Matty Kreuzer

It was ever thus for Fraser and Collingwood. He first came into the team in 2000 the way he will tonight, as the hope of the side. The Magpies were wooden spooners; 18-year-old, 202-centimetre Fraser was their prize. Malthouse, also new to the club that year, promised to play him sparingly.

But Collingwood, being Collingwood, had to show something. Fraser played every game except one in his first season, missed only five games in his first eight seasons, a bout of osteitis pubis notwithstanding. He has carried injuries more stoically than some suppose.

It might be that he is paying the price now. At 26, when he should be at his physical peak, he has played only 12 of the Magpies' past 23. As a teenager, he impressed with his ability to win the ball below his knees, even at the bottom of packs; he was really a gigantic midfielder. Now, he is not so athletic.

Fraser was woeful last night and the clearly the game has passed him.

Gibbs#4 wrote:

Fraser was woeful last night and the clearly the game has passed him.

Fraser's always been good at best.

Worst #1 pick in history.

Kaptain Kouta wrote:

Gibbs#4 wrote:

Fraser was woeful last night and the clearly the game has passed him.

Fraser's always been good at best.

Worst #1 pick in history.

Even worst than Clive Waterhouse? At least Fraser played in a couple of games that were the last to be played at the end of the season where only two teams participate.

The major difference Sparky is the progress in player management (physical management) from when Fraser started in 1999 and now.

8 years is a long time in AFL terms and the professionalism at AFL clubs has come on leaps and bounds. Kruez doesn't get alot of game time. He is very well managed off the bench and only does 5-7 minute bursts on the ball. Maybe longer up forward. He is also closely monitored at Training.

Trust Cordy and Co to look after his welfare for the long term.

Regards Cazzesman

Could Jeff White be a stop gap void for 2009-2010?

Until the Hamster develops, Kreuzzzzz spends more time up forward and White, who is 31 and clearly out of favour, could be a real option. He will give us a contest in the middle and is good around the ground. He could be really good for our development, plus the Rielly connection?

Food for thought?

I like it how Collingwood tried to trade him last year and nobody wanted him so then they make him VC. Good ole Collingwood forever. :lol:

DIAMOTISM wrote:

I like it how Collingwood tried to trade him last year and nobody wanted him so then they make him VC. Good ole Collingwood forever. :lol:

Maybe they took notes when we were working out what to do with Lance... :lol:

Fraser has never finished higher than fourth in the Copeland Trophy, never been an all-Australian. His aggregate of Brownlow Medal votes at the end of last season was 23 in eight years; Jimmy Bartel got 29 last season alone. He averages 11 hitouts a games — passable — and takes fewer contested marks than his height and reach suggests he should (the same is true of Peter Everitt).

Josh Fraser <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Kreuz.

Author:	SparkyBlue [ Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Matty Kreuzer - Kreuzin' for a brusin'?!
Could this be Matty Kreuzer in 5 years time? In my opinion a real reason why we need an experienced ruckman to help K-Dogg until he fills out and gets a little more experience himself... Quote: It was ever thus for Fraser and Collingwood. He first came into the team in 2000 the way he will tonight, as the hope of the side. The Magpies were wooden spooners; 18-year-old, 202-centimetre Fraser was their prize. Malthouse, also new to the club that year, promised to play him sparingly. But Collingwood, being Collingwood, had to show something. Fraser played every game except one in his first season, missed only five games in his first eight seasons, a bout of osteitis pubis notwithstanding. He has carried injuries more stoically than some suppose. It might be that he is paying the price now. At 26, when he should be at his physical peak, he has played only 12 of the Magpies' past 23. As a teenager, he impressed with his ability to win the ball below his knees, even at the bottom of packs; he was really a gigantic midfielder. Now, he is not so athletic. This is Josh Fraser - but it could so easily be Kreuzer in the next few years if we don't nurture him correctly... http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/defining-the-enigmatic-fraser/2008/07/31/1217097432003.html?page=2 Just my opinion.

Author:	Donstuie [ Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:
I concur, and I get the feeling the MC do as well. Kreuz is only rucking so much because of our lack of other options. We need someone to be our #1 til he (or Hampson) is ready.

Author:	yibbida [ Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:
How dare you compare Kreuzer to ..... I can't even say his name ....

Author:	Taff [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:31 am ]
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I believe it is the concept that is being referred to here. I know there couldn't possibly be a comparison - could there?

Author:	Gibbs#4 [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:39 am ]
Post subject:
Fraser was woeful last night and the clearly the game has passed him.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	DIAMOTISM [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:41 am ]
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Kozi is heading the same way as ... (I can't say his name either). Kozi is a ruckmen but can't play in the ruck anymore due to being crashed and bashed at a young age. At least Kozi can take a contested mark in the goal square unlike ...! ... has not come on. I like it how Collingwood tried to trade him last year and nobody wanted him so then they make him VC. Good ole Collingwood forever. We need to learn from these two and ensure Kruezer spends more time in the forward line rather than the ruck. We need to preserve him and develop him in areas where if he doesn't make it as a ruckmen, he can still hold down CHF or FF or CHB unlike ...!

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:22 am ]
Post subject:
Gibbs#4 wrote: Fraser was woeful last night and the clearly the game has passed him. Fraser's always been good at best. Worst #1 pick in history.

Author:	DIAMOTISM [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:25 am ]
Post subject:
Kaptain Kouta wrote: Gibbs#4 wrote: Fraser was woeful last night and the clearly the game has passed him. Fraser's always been good at best. Worst #1 pick in history. Even worst than Clive Waterhouse? At least Fraser played in a couple of games that were the last to be played at the end of the season where only two teams participate.

Author:	tommi [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:28 am ]
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London exhibitions..............? kindest regards tommi

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:30 am ]
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DIAMOTISM wrote: Kaptain Kouta wrote: Gibbs#4 wrote: Fraser was woeful last night and the clearly the game has passed him. Fraser's always been good at best. Worst #1 pick in history. Even worst than Clive Waterhouse? At least Fraser played in a couple of games that were the last to be played at the end of the season where only two teams participate. Yes, even worse than Clive. It was due to the team around him that Fraser made it to the pointy end of the season, and also why Clive never did.

Author:	Jarusa [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:32 am ]
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Fraser was given full games in his first couple of years at a time when there was no ruck circle and less restrictions on wrestling at around the ground bounces. The media were discussing at the time if it was too much for a young ruckman. I'm concerned about throwing Kruezer to the wolves too much too soon as well. But he has been having extended periods on the bench at a time when ruckwork is less physical in terms of crash and bash than it has ever been. The big worry is his very good habit of 2nd and 3rd efforts, this means he does spend a lot more time in packs than other ruckmen his age. This will be great when he has matured physically but at the moment is a bit of worry in terms of his long term future. I suppose it balances out a bit if you think that he would be doing the same thing in the ressies anyway and most likely with more game time, but less impact from smaller players. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Author:	Cazzesman [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:36 am ]
Post subject:
The major difference Sparky is the progress in player management (physical management) from when Fraser started in 1999 and now. 8 years is a long time in AFL terms and the professionalism at AFL clubs has come on leaps and bounds. Kruez doesn't get alot of game time. He is very well managed off the bench and only does 5-7 minute bursts on the ball. Maybe longer up forward. He is also closely monitored at Training. Trust Cordy and Co to look after his welfare for the long term. Regards Cazzesman

Author:	linchpin [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:02 am ]
Post subject:
Could Jeff White be a stop gap void for 2009-2010? Until the Hamster develops, Kreuzzzzz spends more time up forward and White, who is 31 and clearly out of favour, could be a real option. He will give us a contest in the middle and is good around the ground. He could be really good for our development, plus the Rielly connection? Food for thought?

Author:	bondiblue [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:13 am ]
Post subject:
Cazzesman wrote: The major difference Sparky is the progress in player management (physical management) from when Fraser started in 1999 and now. 8 years is a long time in AFL terms and the professionalism at AFL clubs has come on leaps and bounds. Kruez doesn't get alot of game time. He is very well managed off the bench and only does 5-7 minute bursts on the ball. Maybe longer up forward. He is also closely monitored at Training. Trust Cordy and Co to look after his welfare for the long term. Regards Cazzesman That's pleasing to read Cazz. I thought that he was being managed well and that's why I didn't think he needed a rest; he needed minimal game time in the first ruck. Then I read the first post from Sparky and start to think of the potential damage long term, ala Fraser. We do need ruckMEN in footy, regardless what your take on ruckmen is. We need at least 3 good ones (1 as a reserve or all 3 playing if they are athletic as Hampson and Kreuzer are for different on field roles, notwithstanding the need when injury happens). A competitive ruckman's prerequisite imo is 200cm. Cloke, Ackland, McLaren were never going to be AFL ruckmen. There was never a doubt imo that in 2008 we needed a mature bodies (200cm+) ruckman (ref to my posts over the last 2 years) in order to use Kreuzer and Hampson sparingly in the ruck position and blood them in the forwardline. 2009 isn't any different. Kreuzer will be 20 and Hampson 21. Who knows what is going on with Jacobs' development and Aisake's potential has seems to have been wasted, so against that backdrop we will still need to get a mature ruckman in 2009, or history will repeat itself; season 2008 for Carlton and the Fraser syndrome.

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Author:	Deano Supremo [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:41 am ]
Post subject:
linchpin wrote: Could Jeff White be a stop gap void for 2009-2010? Until the Hamster develops, Kreuzzzzz spends more time up forward and White, who is 31 and clearly out of favour, could be a real option. He will give us a contest in the middle and is good around the ground. He could be really good for our development, plus the Rielly connection? Food for thought? Not food for thought. Jeff White relies on his leap, which has now left him. NO

Author:	club29 [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:40 am ]
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Magpies tanked hard for Frazer.

Author:	GWS [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:59 am ]
Post subject:
DIAMOTISM wrote: I like it how Collingwood tried to trade him last year and nobody wanted him so then they make him VC. Good ole Collingwood forever. Maybe they took notes when we were working out what to do with Lance...

Author:	DIAMOTISM [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:
GWS wrote: DIAMOTISM wrote: I like it how Collingwood tried to trade him last year and nobody wanted him so then they make him VC. Good ole Collingwood forever. Maybe they took notes when we were working out what to do with Lance... Shhhhhh

Author:	SparkyBlue [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Josh Fraser doesn't hold a flame to Kreuz, the comparison was simply in the fact that Fraser seems to be burning out quickly (if not already), and I didn't want to see the same happening to K-Dogg. C-Man, thanks for the response - I can fully appreciate that player management has progressed a long way and - being one of Carlton's prized recruits - would be very, very closely monitored. But the question has to be asked - putting talent aside, wouldn't it be advantageous to have an older, established ruckman taking the bulk of the ruckwork from Kreuz until he bulks up a little? This was the main reasoning of mine behind wanting to draft S. King last year, and possibly Brogan this year. Once again, talent aside - just to minimise the strain on the young ruckmen. Oh yeah - how about this quote: Quote: Fraser has never finished higher than fourth in the Copeland Trophy, never been an all-Australian. His aggregate of Brownlow Medal votes at the end of last season was 23 in eight years; Jimmy Bartel got 29 last season alone. He averages 11 hitouts a games — passable — and takes fewer contested marks than his height and reach suggests he should (the same is true of Peter Everitt). Josh Fraser <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Kreuz.

Author:	MoriBlue [ Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Josh Fraser <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Kreuz. +1