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Can Kreuzer play as a permanent forward
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Author:  paulg [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Can Kreuzer play as a permanent forward
people who remember Walls as a teen playing CHF have wistfully asked what is????

I like the idea of him not getting crushed in the rucks, body battered and maybe spirit. Is he 19 yet?

he looks a million dollars in front of goal

If you want a hard body in ruck and defence. Give me Sentana
Author:  TianaCon [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes he can play a permanent fwd position if required, obviously offers height, good strong mark, knows how to position himself instictively & will get better at that with more experience, but at the moment it seems the MC dont think Hammer or Jacobs or Ackland up to it yet, thus requiring Kreuze in the ruck when Clokey needs a rest & if he's getting beaten, Ratts will throw K in ruck for the extra height. This is the current dilemna we have in the ruck.

Having said that Kreuze is & will be exposed when the ball hits the ground & the defence are looking to rebound, although he is exceptionally good at ground level for his size, which is of benefit to him & us.

More & more of the better sides are small fwds ala midfielders so effectively, along with their actual m/fielders, they can block the ball in 3 qtrs of their part of the field with pace & turnovers (etc).

It would all depend on Carlton's game plan & style & how Kreuze fits into that & also how the team evolves & progresses.

Bottom line however is Yes, he can, but imo he is too good a talent (sorry Fev, Wiggo, Eddie, Fish etc ), not to use in areas he may be required at any given time, whether it be ruck, fwd, back.......

:) :)
Author:  shuffagus [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
10.0 :-D
Author:  Jarusa [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nice problem to have deciding between the 2 to 3 goal a game CHF and the mobile ruckman/midfielder kicking 1 goal a game!

Doubt there would be anyone on our list apart from maybe Fevola who has had two bags of three goals within their first 20 games of footy.
Author:  MoriBlue [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I reckon, just let him take the tap outs up forward allowing the no.1 ruckman to drift back to defence.
Author:  AGRO [ Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
TianaCon wrote:
Having said that Kreuze is & will be exposed when the ball hits the ground & the defence are looking to rebound, although he is exceptionally good at ground level for his size, which is of benefit to him & us.



This is one area where Kreuzer will NOT be exposed - you have it wrong there his mobility and deceptive pace makes him perfect foil in the FP next to Fevola.

You obviously didnt see his chase down and tackle on Tambling a few weeks ago. :wink:
Author:  Indie [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Jarusa wrote:
Doubt there would be anyone on our list apart from maybe Fevola who has had two bags of three goals within their first 20 games of footy.

Betts - 4 bags of 3 goals in his first 17 games. Oh wait a minute, that was a rhetorical observation, wasn't it? :razz:
Author:  Jarusa [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Indie wrote:
Jarusa wrote:
Doubt there would be anyone on our list apart from maybe Fevola who has had two bags of three goals within their first 20 games of footy.

Betts - 4 bags of 3 goals in his first 17 games. Oh wait a minute, that was a rhetorical observation, wasn't it? :razz:


:lol: Go Eddie! :shock:
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 
There haven't been too many 196+cm players as effective forwards or defenders over the history of the game so I really don't understand where the fascination of Krezuer as a forward comes from.

He'll be far more effective as an around the ground ruckman.
Author:  cj69 [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Once he gets a few pre seasons under his belt he could easily play ruck and rest at FF instead of resting on the bench.

Seems to lead naturally and is an excellent kick and a one grab player plus defensively very good. Great temprement!

Could easily be a 20 plus possession 2-3 goal a game player.

Amazing to think we are discusing this about an 18yo tall. :-D
Author:  Rucci15 [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey guys in my opinion, the match commitee are using him well.

I agree with TruBlue Brad that not too many 196+cm ruckman make it as a forward, however Kruez can definately pinch hit up forward when required.

Keep him in the ruck and be patient and let him develop and when needed use him up forward.
Author:  DownUnderChick [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
For his age and the fact that he has kicked 2 lots of 3 goals this year, speaks for itself. He knows when to push forward and the fact that he has the streak going at the moment with 10 goals straight, hopefully means that others will look to him.

The way he moves when running into goal, he reminds me of Moses parting the Red Sea. :-D
Author:  frank dardew [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  TruBlu
You are right but an exceptional to the rule was the 200 cm -athletic Paul Salmon who for a few seasons before doing an ACL terrorised the competition as a FF - Kreuzer seems to me to have all those attributes that Salmon had - Also rules now much more severe against backman so a 200 cm forward who is athletic would cause real headaches for the backman
Author:  DownUnderChick [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TruBlu
frank dardew wrote:
You are right but an exceptional to the rule was the 200 cm -athletic Paul Salmon who for a few seasons before doing an ACL terrorised the competition as a FF - Kreuzer seems to me to have all those attributes that Salmon had - Also rules now much more severe against backman so a 200 cm forward who is athletic would cause real headaches for the backman


Unless the forward is Fev. :wink:
Author:  Indie [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't see anything magical about 196cm. As noted, Salmon is 205cm and Lade is 199cm. Sticks and Buddy Franklin are both 196cm and Jonathan Brown is 195cm. Sure, you have to be exceptional to excel at that height, but if you are (and Kreuzer may be) then you create exceptional headaches for the opposition.
Author:  Synbad [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Freak and can play anywhere ..... he is so smart and so good he would dominate CHF for 10 years barring injury...

He stands like a beacon in the redzone when midfielders are looking for targets...

Too smart for most CHBs or talls... too tall for anything shorter....

He would be what Sticks was to us in the eighties and nineties...
Author:  TianaCon [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
AGRO wrote:
TianaCon wrote:
Having said that Kreuze is & will be exposed when the ball hits the ground & the defence are looking to rebound, although he is exceptionally good at ground level for his size, which is of benefit to him & us.



This is one area where Kreuzer will NOT be exposed - you have it wrong there his mobility and deceptive pace makes him perfect foil in the FP next to Fevola.

You obviously didnt see his chase down and tackle on Tambling a few weeks ago. :wink:


Can't argue with that (not that I would anyway) As I said he is exceptionally good at ground level, which includes tackling & chasing.

Just wanted to add a bit of balance to the post, in that all players have some type of weaknesses, the better the player the fewer of them, so I looked at Kreuze as a fwd & that was the only area I thought he could possibly be "exposed".

:) :)
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TruBlu
frank dardew wrote:
You are right but an exceptional to the rule was the 200 cm -athletic Paul Salmon who for a few seasons before doing an ACL terrorised the competition as a FF - Kreuzer seems to me to have all those attributes that Salmon had - Also rules now much more severe against backman so a 200 cm forward who is athletic would cause real headaches for the backman


Salmon was the only one I could think of, but did he ever kick more than the 63 goals he had in his debut season? Perhaps that injury stopped him from being one of the great full-forwards.

The other point I'd make is that Salmon played at FF rather than CHF.

Indie wrote:
I don't see anything magical about 196cm. As noted, Salmon is 205cm and Lade is 199cm. Sticks and Buddy Franklin are both 196cm and Jonathan Brown is 195cm. Sure, you have to be exceptional to excel at that height, but if you are (and Kreuzer may be) then you create exceptional headaches for the opposition.


There's nothing magical about it, but history says they aren't as effective.

If you wanted to be generous you could raise McKernan as a 197cm player who was effective as a forward.

If we've hoping to replicate Lade's success as a FP with our #1 draft selection then heaven help us.
Author:  Indie [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not trying to replicate anything. Just considering the question posed. The main thing that might stop Kreuzer from dominating as a forward is that he's almost certainly going to be better value in the ruck. That would be true of other supertall KPPs as well. Justin Longmuir and Troy Simmonds were pretty much cut out of the ruck by Sandilands and both were used as forwards as a result. Simmonds goes to Richmond and becomes the main ruckman. Salmon was one of the few big guys whose coach wanted him to play forward rather than in the ruck. And he showed Sheedy up by going to Hawthorn so he could play in the ruck. Isn't that as much a reason for the low number of successful supertall forwards as any suggested weakness?

Also, I'm pretty sure that Lade should be classed as a CHF.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Indie wrote:
Also, I'm pretty sure that Lade should be classed as a CHF.


Why?
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