I will say it straight. No disrespect to Ratten but there is a disturbing pattern. He doesn't coach well against his best direct opponents:Roos, Mathews and Craig.

What was the plan B today? 3rd Qtr there were no moves that I could see?

Waite appeared to moved too late in the piece

In retrospect do you drop Hartlett against a team he seemed to play well against, when you have no CHF alternative against a Coach who knows how to create that wall across Center Half Back

I am not saying that Ratten is a bad coach but rather that he is given an armchair ride by this forum. He has to improve as much as the players if we are to be a top four side.

Yeah, I've never heard anyone here criticise Ratts before.

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Quote: "In retrospect do you drop Hartlett against a team he seemed to play well against, when you have no CHF alternative against a Coach who knows how to create that wall across Center Half Back."

From memory Hartlet has only played one quarter of footy against the Crows It was a good quarter by the way

From memory Hartlet has only played one quarter of footy against the Crows It was a good quarter by the way [/quote]


My point is this was not the week to drop him. If ever it was worth the risk of one last chance it was this week

Slightly better kicking for goal in the last quarter, and a few less umpiring mistakes and everyone would be praising Ratten for what he's brought to the club.

We lost for three reasons:
1. Poor kicking for goal
2. We consistantly broke down around the HF line so we ended up either giving up the ball, banging it down to Fev in hope or going for the miracle goal from 60-70m out.
3. We still don't have the strong self belief in ourselves that the top teams have, even if we have the talent and the game plan.

There's not a great deal Ratts can do about these things tactically. Plus Harts might sound like the answer to one of those problems but the truth is that he's been pretty much useless and wouldn't provide the target we needed even if he was in the team.

Also Ratts has only had one preseason with the boys, and most of that was devoted to working on their skills and getting them used to his gameplan. The players need a bit more experience, and a few more preseasons together before Ratten can start teaching them party tricks.

The problem with dropping Hartlett is that you still go into games with a one man forward line....

..... and you still go into games without a CHF......

.... which means youre going into games with just Fev....... and theyre all over him like a rash....


i think Hartlett should have been persisted with..... (Jordy is being persisted with)....id rather persist in finding a CHF than persist a vanilla footballer playing a vanilla role (thats right we dont know his role .. but if we knew wed know he is holding his spot cos of his role)....

......mindboggling....

... and just continuing on with that overpossession style of game when the opposition flood us and we keep getting caught in that web is becoming mighty predictable...


.. and then when were 5 goals behind... and he must attack to have any chance... and we do attack we lift....

... but we mostly @#$%&! around for 3/4s of a game....until we MUST attack a 20 man team...... in the last 30 minutes......cos were going to show everyone were fit!!!(every week)

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Well this is the exact sugar coated response I have a problem with. Here are a few suggestions with what he could have done.

1. Play Judd in the forward line for a while

2. Try Cloke in the forward line

3. Select Jacobs or Hampson for a game and Play Kreuzer as a forward

I would also comment that Ratts is great at coaching players to win the contested ball. I wouldn't say there is anything indicative of good skills coaching.

Look I am not Ratts' biggest fan by any means but today we had deplorable disposal and skills all round. Every gun player was down except Fev. He can't go out there and kick it for them. It was just 'one of those days' I guess.

However, having said that, there were a couple of problems. What I don't like is Ratts doesn't try new things or when he does it's generally too late.

For e.g. Austin was getting slaughtered, why not throw him into the forward line to provide another target? Perfect example was how Neil Craig threw Moran in the forward line when he wasn't having a good game. You never know until you try.

Why not park Kreuzer in the F-50.

Why not play Judd in the forward 50 when he was being ridden like a camel and getting held onto every stoppage to give us a spark.

And I don't understand why we can never have Hartlett and Edwards in the same team to give us another dimension. It seems like when one comes in the other has to go out or remain out.

Mix it up Ratts. Hopefully he does in these last few games because we won't know until we try as to what players can thrive in which positions.

2nd time this year neil craig has outcoached ratts. almost a carbon copy of last time. apparently we don't learn quickly

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Everyone who has played us in this way has beaten us...

even the team today with 20 players and no forward line....

Today they found the feared Moran to kick their goals.....

in the meantime we went this way then that way to get it to Fevola.. who was killing Rutten....

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very true synners. i wish i knew the answer... but i guess if i did, i wouldn't be sitting here posting my thoughts on an internet forum...

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Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Replay was just on Fox

IMO we lost because in the third qtr an experienced, hardened finals team came out and smashed us in the middle. They didn't give us a sniff. They put enormous pressure on us and when we did have the ball (mainly in defence) forced us to cough it up.

Not sure how you can say he was outcoached - how can you put a real plan into place when you can't get the ball? As I said in the third qtr an experienced finals team came out to play. Have a look at the amount of experience in the Adelaide lineup and compare it to us. We can't handle that sort of pressure at the moment. The good thing is being exposed to that amount of pressure shows the young players the amount of work and commitment that is required.

I'd have liked Hartlett to play today but he wouldn't have been the difference. We lost the game in the third qtr in the middle and around the ground with Adelaide's superior pressure/body size/experience.

What the 20 players they had????

and McLeod???

and the other midfielder that was in doubt???

And Moran????

and that full forward they had????Whatisname?????

and Van Berlo the veteran?????

And Chris Massie????

Thats a shit football side and they had no business beating us on the day... with what they had in.....and we can sit here and make excuse after excuse.... but in the end we all thought we SHOULD win that game... and they ran harder than us... and they sucked us into their web... and we just wernt up to it...

But i suppose theres a bright side... we get a better pick ... to go with Walker.. Murphy Gibbs Kreuzer ... the best player in the land... Juddy... the best forward in the land....Fevola..

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Their defence and midfield is way more experienced - you might not rate some of their experienced players but they force teams into making mistakes. Sydney had a bunch of no names who were able to pressure teams into making mistakes as well as winning contested ball. At the moment Thompson, Edwards, Doughty, McLeod, Bassett, Bock, Stevens, Shirley, Goodwin and Rutten all have more experience. A lot of them aren't that talented but with their experience are able to defeat young teams like ours.

Your 'sack ratten' rhetoric has been as missing for the last week as our midfield was in the third quarter. Shit happens, we're a young side, suck it up and deal with it.

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The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end

Thats ten experienced players we had the same.....

But they had 2 players short for over a half....
.... and they had a bunch of inexperienced kids too....

Goodwin went in the game in doubt...
McLeod is a shadow of his formerself...
Rutten got a bath from Fevola when the ball was going in...
Gibbs did the number on Thompson
Edwards didnt star.....
Shirley did well on Judd and his stealing space to kick his 2 goals were criminal....

But those players you mentioned arent why they won the game....

not even close....

Seriously if thats the absolute nucleus of their side theyre [REDACTED]!!!....There are a hadfull there that are ok or not over the hill.... but thats not enough ....

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The sky is falling ... the sky is falling. Seriously, try redtube, it might put a smile on your face for a while.

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The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end

How young are we???

Just cos we dont have 30 year olds... (which isnt a good thing anyway as players past at their peak at 30 ,re and more......doesnt mean were young...

They had a few kids in too you know????

Scotland Stevens Simpson Judd Carrazzo are not young you know???
Murphy is 21 and Gibbs n Kreuzer are young through the midfield....

Youre actually believing the buzz that were babies or something???

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Heavs .... i smile when i wanna smile... and taking one step forward and one back isnt a good time....

you smile if you wanna.... happy are you???

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So it's Ratten's fault the players didn't convert their chances into goals

Was it's Ratten's fault Fev ran into and kicked into an ump to cost us chances we had to nail to be a chance?

Add some more dots Tommi...

It's a very convincing argument.

Ablett and Franklin don't play for Carlton.

We panicked after quarter time and turned it over far too easily after running the ball well in the first.

We're still the youngest team in the AFL and need to improve our kicking.

Ratten isn't going to do that overnight and after one pre-season.

They blocked up space and stopped the run of Stevens and Judd because they were winning the ruck to give them first bite at the centre clearances.

It was like the Geelong game with boys against men.

I would have picked Hartlett also because we just kicked to a wall of Crows across half back with no one there.

Hampson has to be played for the rest of the year.

We were killed in the ruck and didn't give Judd any breathing space with Shirley hanging on to him all day.