TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Our bottom 6

Great effort today by the boys, they put in for 4 quarters

but our depth is a big worry. we are developing some good players

gibbs (so good)
murph
jamieson
simpson
betts
walker
Kruze
etc

Great effort today by the boys, they put in for 4 quarters

but our depth is a big worry. we are developing some good players

gibbs (so good)
murph
jamieson
simpson
betts
walker
Kruze
etc

but our bottom 6 today were awful and they are all experienced players

russell
wiggins
fisher
hartlett
bentick
cloke

the top 4 play as forwards and no wonder we kick it to fev 50% of the time. As another poster wrote, a half fwd line of fisher, wiggins, russell is the worst in the competition!

Looking forward to the development of browne, armfield, bower, anderson, hampson, yarran (;-) so these guys have to earn their spot

need a more consistent effort across the board

Looking forward to the development of browne, armfield, bower, anderson, hampson, yarran (;-) so these guys have to earn their spot

need a more consistent effort across the board

but our bottom 6 today were awful and they are all experienced players

russell
wiggins
fisher
hartlett
bentick
cloke

I don't think a lot of people understand the impact Houlihan will have coming back into the team next year, or maybe late this year.

As a forward he's quite strong overhead, and a lovely kick for goal. As a bonus, if he's too far out you know he's guaranteed to hit someone with a perfect 20m pass.

He could play on half forward and coordinate a lot of our attacks.

Aside from Gibbs, he's our only real 'architect' type player.

Unfortunately Gibbs has his hands full setting it up out of the backline at the moment.

I know Fish is having a bad run with his kicking at the moment, but I reckon he's still contributed to the side the last couple of weeks. I know he has made some howlers in that time too, but it shits me that people see past the good that our players do and just focus on the bad.

Don't know how you came up with that bottom 6!!!

Our bottom 6 (by disposals) were : Grigg, Austin, Russell, Thorton, Hartlett & Kreuzer.....

sticksaftersiren87 wrote:

Competely disagree. All the above-mentioned players played their roles today & ALL had hands in us scoring or put us in a position to score. They also did things which led to scores against us - so did Judd, Stevens, Scotland, Gibbs, yes Gibbs (etc).

They're still learning the game at this level & some are playing out of position & out of their weight/age class. Time is something some people are not willing to give young people, especially in a "successful" environment - completely different to what they have had to endure in recent times. Give em a break.

Author:	sticksaftersiren87 [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
Great effort today by the boys, they put in for 4 quarters but our depth is a big worry. we are developing some good players gibbs (so good) murph jamieson simpson betts walker Kruze etc but our bottom 6 today were awful and they are all experienced players russell wiggins fisher hartlett bentick cloke the top 4 play as forwards and no wonder we kick it to fev 50% of the time. As another poster wrote, a half fwd line of fisher, wiggins, russell is the worst in the competition! Looking forward to the development of browne, armfield, bower, anderson, hampson, yarran (;-) so these guys have to earn their spot need a more consistent effort across the board

Author:	Wangers [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Great effort today by the boys, they put in for 4 quarters but our depth is a big worry. we are developing some good players gibbs (so good) murph jamieson simpson betts walker Kruze etc Add Grigg, Bower and Armfield to that list

Author:	true_blue3 [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Great effort today by the boys, they put in for 4 quarters but our depth is a big worry. we are developing some good players gibbs (so good) murph jamieson simpson betts walker Kruze etc but our bottom 6 today were awful and they are all experienced players russell wiggins fisher hartlett bentick cloke the top 4 play as forwards and no wonder we kick it to fev 50% of the time. As another poster wrote, a half fwd line of fisher, wiggins, russell is the worst in the competition! Looking forward to the development of browne, armfield, bower, anderson, hampson, yarran (;-) so these guys have to earn their spot need a more consistent effort across the board i hear what you're saying and i agree with you but i think it's a bit unfair to call ahrtlett and russell experienced. but you're right, we have a problem with our depth and i'm not sure we've got enough 2nd tier players coming through in our youth, our cream is good with gibbs, murphy, kreuzer, walker etc. but you're only as good as your weakest link and we need to develop a lot of our young players well enough to be good, solid players who won't be liabilities for us when we're challenging for a flag. as it stands right now, we have about 10 players getting a game who wouldn't get a game at geelong.

Author:	Humpers [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Looking forward to the development of browne, armfield, bower, anderson, hampson, yarran (;-) so these guys have to earn their spot need a more consistent effort across the board In addition to your points SAS87: - Hopefully Hadley can make a full recovery and remain injury free as he is a class above Bentick. - Even though Hartlett was in our bottom six today I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Author:	ryan2000 [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
sticksaftersiren87 wrote: but our bottom 6 today were awful and they are all experienced players russell wiggins fisher hartlett bentick cloke Not so sure about Rusell and Hartlett being 'Experienced players'. Fisher, bentick and wiggens are all top blokes and i love em to death, but sadly....are only there becuase we lack depth in that area. Cloke tries hard, but needs to be able to fill a CHF role pretty quick cause he's clerarly not a fulltime ruck. Russell is just plain crap............... mock me all you want but he is just plain crap. Cannot understand why he gets so many chances whilst the likes of Anderson, Setanta, and even Edwards are sent packing at the slightsest sign of a mistake. Setanta/Ando/Edwards ect ect ect are signs of development. Russell is a sign of a footballer who can't play football. Hartlett i'm not sold on, but at least give him a few weeks so we can make a valid judgment.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	verbs [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:
We managed 119 against the stingy Swans with the worst forward line in the League. With improvement we should be able to score 180 - 190 each week.

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:
I think it is fair to say that if Armfield , Bannister, Houlihan and Hadley would have been fit 4 of that 6 would not be playing They didn't cost us a win - we were beaten by Darren Jolly Cloke- Mcclaren- Ackland -short arse ruckman cant compete- Makes you wonder about Aisake all he had to do was learn how to jump and tap and he would be a regular now

Author:	Cyclonus [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:	...
I don't think a lot of people understand the impact Houlihan will have coming back into the team next year, or maybe late this year. As a forward he's quite strong overhead, and a lovely kick for goal. As a bonus, if he's too far out you know he's guaranteed to hit someone with a perfect 20m pass. He could play on half forward and coordinate a lot of our attacks. Aside from Gibbs, he's our only real 'architect' type player. Unfortunately Gibbs has his hands full setting it up out of the backline at the moment.

Author:	camel [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:
I know Fish is having a bad run with his kicking at the moment, but I reckon he's still contributed to the side the last couple of weeks. I know he has made some howlers in that time too, but it shits me that people see past the good that our players do and just focus on the bad. And Sydney, I suggest you change that signature of yours before I do it for you. http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=2919 (s21) http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... hp?t=21716

Author:	The Duke [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:
One lost opportunity taken would've reversed the scores and we'd be talking about how good we are. I thought Cloke battled hard all day. Stuffed up a few times, but contributed more. Judd, Bentick, Murphy all could've played better, but when you surrender the ruck before the game starts, it's always gonna be tough for your mids to clear with any ease. We need to change this asap because we can. All other players played okay without being awesomew,BUT had we won, all but a few of these guys would be on their way to our next flag.

Author:	yibbida [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Great effort today by the boys, they put in for 4 quarters but our depth is a big worry. we are developing some good players gibbs (so good) murph jamieson simpson betts walker Kruze etc but our bottom 6 today were awful and they are all experienced players russell wiggins fisher hartlett bentick cloke the top 4 play as forwards and no wonder we kick it to fev 50% of the time. As another poster wrote, a half fwd line of fisher, wiggins, russell is the worst in the competition! Looking forward to the development of browne, armfield, bower, anderson, hampson, yarran (;-) so these guys have to earn their spot need a more consistent effort across the board Don't know how you came up with that bottom 6!!! Our bottom 6 (by disposals) were : Grigg, Austin, Russell, Thorton, Hartlett & Kreuzer.....

Author:	mjonc [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ...
Cyclonus wrote: I don't think a lot of people understand the impact Houlihan will have coming back into the team next year, or maybe late this year. As a forward he's quite strong overhead, and a lovely kick for goal. As a bonus, if he's too far out you know he's guaranteed to hit someone with a perfect 20m pass. He could play on half forward and coordinate a lot of our attacks. Aside from Gibbs, he's our only real 'architect' type player. Unfortunately Gibbs has his hands full setting it up out of the backline at the moment. Damn right. Houligan would have 30 goals and 30 assists by now. We miss his silk and ability to crumb.

Author:	sticksaftersiren87 [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:
yibbida I am talking about our bottom 6 players in the team with atleast 4 years on thelist

Author:	exsing [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:
camelboy wrote: I know Fish is having a bad run with his kicking at the moment, but I reckon he's still contributed to the side the last couple of weeks. I know he has made some howlers in that time too, but it shits me that people see past the good that our players do and just focus on the bad. Agree completely. The problem with Fisher is that he is lacking confidence at the moment. Once he gets it back, he will be very good for our team. He just needs to make a few marks stick and his confidence will be right back.

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Author:	The Hoff [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
yibbida wrote: Don't know how you came up with that bottom 6!!! Our bottom 6 (by disposals) were : Grigg, Austin, Russell, Thorton, Hartlett & Kreuzer..... I think he's talking about bottom 6 by quality of disposal over a reasonable period of time, not by the numbers of disposals for 1 game. Give me a guy who runs and chases and blocks and tackles and spoils and makes the most of his dozen or so touches every day of the week over a guy who gets a heap and butchers every 2nd, or who can't kick straight over 30m.

Author:	shuffagus [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:
hartlett...experienced...

Author:	cj69 [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Whilst I agree with the post the good thing is that we have a number of top level players developing. These are harder to get than mid or lower level players. There is going to be a lot of pressure on our trade and draft weeks. We have a good side with everyone fit. Add a mature bodied ruckman and we are not far away. Get another couple of SKILLED runners in the draft and the future is very bright.

Author:	TianaCon [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Great effort today by the boys, they put in for 4 quarters but our depth is a big worry. we are developing some good players gibbs (so good) murph jamieson simpson betts walker Kruze etc but our bottom 6 today were awful and they are all experienced players russell wiggins fisher hartlett bentick cloke the top 4 play as forwards and no wonder we kick it to fev 50% of the time. As another poster wrote, a half fwd line of fisher, wiggins, russell is the worst in the competition! Looking forward to the development of browne, armfield, bower, anderson, hampson, yarran (;-) so these guys have to earn their spot need a more consistent effort across the board Competely disagree. All the above-mentioned players played their roles today & ALL had hands in us scoring or put us in a position to score. They also did things which led to scores against us - so did Judd, Stevens, Scotland, Gibbs, yes Gibbs (etc). They're still learning the game at this level & some are playing out of position & out of their weight/age class. Time is something some people are not willing to give young people, especially in a "successful" environment - completely different to what they have had to endure in recent times. Give em a break.

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:
Kelly and Prismall in for Ablett and Ling.......thats what wins flags.......thats depth...depth in quality not depth in C graders...

Author:	Pafloyul [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our bottom 6 - Depth an Issue
TianaCon wrote: sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Great effort today by the boys, they put in for 4 quarters but our depth is a big worry. we are developing some good players gibbs (so good) murph jamieson simpson betts walker Kruze etc but our bottom 6 today were awful and they are all experienced players russell wiggins fisher hartlett bentick cloke the top 4 play as forwards and no wonder we kick it to fev 50% of the time. As another poster wrote, a half fwd line of fisher, wiggins, russell is the worst in the competition! Looking forward to the development of browne, armfield, bower, anderson, hampson, yarran (;-) so these guys have to earn their spot need a more consistent effort across the board Competely disagree. All the above-mentioned players played their roles today & ALL had hands in us scoring or put us in a position to score. They also did things which led to scores against us - so did Judd, Stevens, Scotland, Gibbs, yes Gibbs (etc). They're still learning the game at this level & some are playing out of position & out of their weight/age class. Time is something some people are not willing to give young people, especially in a "successful" environment - completely different to what they have had to endure in recent times. Give em a break. Did we win? Some of those blokes are too old and/or experienced to be considered kids. Some will play there part and others will drop away. It is not personal condemnation it is simply knowing where you are at as a football club. The moral of the story is that we need at least roughly two-three very good players to come into the side if we are to be a force in the competition. That is without factoring in retirements attrition and injury. In other words, we have a bit of work to do. We can't pussy-foot if we want to be successful. There is player bashing on the one side and sentimentality on the other. Can't we just have a bit of realism. I just want to see progress which I am seeing but I don't want to see people giving players a 'pass' mark when they don't deserve it. Imagine if those in charge did the same thing, we would stagnate.