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AFL stats Monday May 16th
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Author:  spf [ Mon May 16, 2005 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  AFL stats Monday May 16th
Well the AFL stats make interesting reading;

Jarrad Waite who leads this club in marks (51) is 24th in the AFL.

24. Jarrad Waite Carlton 51

We just can't catch the damned thing. If we can't hold on to the footy then it generally means the opposition has it. All too true recently.

The stats on tackles is the thing that really stand out though. The first 4 players that this club has in the list are as follows;

22. David Teague Carlton 28
25. Anthony Koutoufides Carlton 26
33. Barnaby French Carlton 24 (that well known midfielder)
36. Nick Stevens Carlton 23

The next listed Carlton player is Simon Wiggins in position 51.

51. Simon Wiggins Carlton 22

Following this we have;

90. Brett Johnson Carlton 18
96. Matthew Lappin Carlton 17

Rounding out the top 100 tacklers in the AFL.

I note that both Scott Camporeale and Heath Scotland are not even listed in the top 100.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did Scott Camporeale not lead the club in tackles in 2004?

I think its just plain disgraceful that our ruckmen is the 3rd best tackler at the club. Cripes doesn't Barnaby have enough to do without having to make the tackles others players should?
Author:  Blues2005 [ Mon May 16, 2005 2:54 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree with what you're saying and I'm also disappointed that we don't have any players really up there in the tackle stakes.

However, the fact is that even when we do lay tackles, very few stick, so whilst it might look good having good tackle stats, the tackles might not be effective, i.e. the opponent breaks the tackle which happens a lot when teams play us.

Don't get me wrong I wish we had more players up there as at least it shows that we're trying hard to stop opponents and are being desperate but I guess my point is that you can't read too much into statistics.
Author:  The Vet [ Mon May 16, 2005 7:16 am ]
Post subject: 
the cats ability on friday night to charge through and break tackles was extraordinary, and even when we got'em, they just stood up, got their arms free and handballed it anyway!

I started to keep a tally of missed tackles, early on, but got lost after 10 (and that was the first quarter).
Author:  ryan2000 [ Mon May 16, 2005 8:58 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm pretty sure that Kouta is now on 60 odd clearances (avg 8 a game.) and that is 8 above Judd and 3 above Stevens and 1st in the AFL.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:59 am ]
Post subject: 
You can't look at the Stats of the Carlton players and use it as an indication on how They are going. We play a low possession style so our stats will always be lower. It is not a true indication of how the players have gone. A lot of people question the development of Walker as against Cooney and pick up the paper and see Cooney had 20 odd stats. Of course he is if the side is chipping the ball around. Maybe The Blues should adopt this policy for a while to let the likes of Walker Simpson and co see high stats against their names and build a bit of confidence in them. It wouldn't Hurt
Author:  ryan2000 [ Mon May 16, 2005 10:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Sydney Blue wrote:
You can't look at the Stats of the Carlton players and use it as an indication on how They are going. We play a low possession style so our stats will always be lower. It is not a true indication of how the players have gone. A lot of people question the development of Walker as against Cooney and pick up the paper and see Cooney had 20 odd stats. Of course he is if the side is chipping the ball around. Maybe The Blues should adopt this policy for a while to let the likes of Walker Simpson and co see high stats against their names and build a bit of confidence in them. It wouldn't Hurt


Very true...................................Or perhaps Dennis could just leave Walker on the ground rather than use him in 10min burts here and there.
Author:  spf [ Mon May 16, 2005 10:38 am ]
Post subject: 
In answer to some posts to this thread I'd simply highlight this;

Yes Carlton plays a low possession game. This would mean we don't handball a lot and generally kick more than handball if we're going well. We dispose of the ball quickly. This also means (unless we're kicking it along the ground) that our key forwards (KPP in general) should get plenty of marks because we kick it a lot. The fact that Jarrad Waite is the only Carlton player to feature in the top 100 in the AFL for marks is a major concern. We're not hitting targets and turning the ball over continually which means we can't retain possession which means they've got the ball which then means we chase them. It think this pretty much sums up the last several weeks.

On the tackles front;

Tackles are only listed (I believe but correct me if I'm wrong) if they're considered layed tackles, this means we got our hands on them and brought them to ground or forced disposal. Again the fact so few of our players and 2 of our premier midfielders are not listed in the top 100 tacklers for the AFL is of major concern. We're just not offensive enough when we don't have the ball. I know you might say defensive because it is but you can be offensive with defence. We don't harress their ball carriers the way they harress ours.

People might say stats don't count for much but I do believe Marks and Tackles are a key indication of how well a side is going. We're not talking counting cheap chipping possession here but key indicators of control and pressure. If you're not marking the ball and tackling the opposition you're going to get whacked. Yes you must kick a winning score but you've got to stop them also kicking one.

Go check out the AFL stats for both tackles and marks (particularly tackles) and you'll see several teams have multiple players in this list. Correlate these players and teams to the AFL ladder and it's pretty signifcant.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon May 16, 2005 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Spf - Tackles no arguement -Carlton is very soft in this area which is unusual for a Pagan coached side
Marks are different some of these side can notch up three marks just bringing the ball out of the defensive 50
Author:  spf [ Mon May 16, 2005 12:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sydney Blue wrote:
Spf - Tackles no arguement -Carlton is very soft in this area which is unusual for a Pagan coached side
Marks are different some of these side can notch up three marks just bringing the ball out of the defensive 50


Yes I see what you mean actually Sydney. Fremantle in particular do this quite a bit. Still you'd hope KPP would feature more than they do because they're the ones you want to have the ball in their hands.
Author:  darknavy [ Mon May 16, 2005 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AFL stats Monday May 16th
spf wrote:
36. Nick Stevens Carlton 23

The next listed Carlton player is Simon Wiggins in position 51.

51. Simon Wiggins Carlton 22


spf you are full of bull - you couldnt read a statistic if it was a Dick and Jane primer

if Stevens has 23 tackles and wiggins has 22 tackles it doesnt mean that theree are 15 spots between them don't you think that there is something alphabetical going on -.Waite and Wiggins were probably always the last ones called out on the class roll.

Now be a good lad and go back and analyse your stats and then tell us where these guys really are ranked - equal 10th or equal 17th in the comp or something like that

If you cant do that then leave the statistical analysis to Jarusa and Wolfister
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Mon May 16, 2005 12:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Go back and have a look at how many mark's the Kangaroo's had per game between 1994-2000 and see where they ranked in the AFL. Would have been in the bottom half yet they were one of the dominant teams.

Pagan teams will never have lots of possessions or marks...tackles are different story.
Author:  spf [ Mon May 16, 2005 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AFL stats Monday May 16th
darknavy wrote:
spf wrote:
36. Nick Stevens Carlton 23

The next listed Carlton player is Simon Wiggins in position 51.

51. Simon Wiggins Carlton 22


spf you are full of bull - you couldnt read a statistic if it was a Dick and Jane primer

if Stevens has 23 tackles and wiggins has 22 tackles it doesnt mean that theree are 15 spots between them don't you think that there is something alphabetical going on -.Waite and Wiggins were probably always the last ones called out on the class roll.

Now be a good lad and go back and analyse your stats and then tell us where these guys really are ranked - equal 10th or equal 17th in the comp or something like that

If you cant do that then leave the statistical analysis to Jarusa and Wolfister


DarkNavy my post was more to do with how many players from this club and particularly which one's are not even in the top 100 for tackles in the AFL.

Yes you're right there is 1 tackle difference between Stevens and Wiggins then we have Brett Johnson and Mathew Lappin back on 18 and 17 respectively. That's it though for this club.

Take a look at how many of the oppositions midfield brigade have listings in the top 50 for this same list.

As for the full of bull comment DarkNavy I find that quite insulting.

EDIT: Removed profanity direted at DarkNavy.
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