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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:02 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 12:06 pm
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Would like to get some other opinions on this as I find this highly interesting!!!!

In my part time work as a Lecturer I often encourage debate amongst my students and encourage them to look at the situation without emotion.

This however can be very hard to do when it comes to football as it is such an emotional pastime.

Jim & MB have accused me of having an opinion of which is derogitory to the Carlton Football Club and does not make me a true supporter.

I will say I totally disagree with this comment but am open to others opinions.

The reason I post on this site is that I can voice my opinion and it is open for debate. For the most part the discussion is civilised and interesting. There are numerous posters (Melvey, Synbad, RR, BondiBlue, Molly, Mjonc etc) on this website that I enjoy reading as they put forward an intelligent and well thought out opinion.

Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't BUT what I believe is important is that I will NEVER berate a person for having another opinion. To me if we do that there is no point in posting.

Their have been numerous times that I have been proven wrong and have been quite happy to admit this.

I am not particularly worried about the opinions of these two as from what I have read they are both rude and are yet to back up their opinions with FACT. I am also strong on the use of abuse on this site as I believe it is the view of a closed mind and totally unneccesary.
What is interesting is that these two have no knowledge of me, have never met me and have no idea what I am like, yet they can form a personal opinion. I have had 18 years as a professional psychologist yet I cannot do that, all I can say is well done!

BUT as I have stated I am open to comment, my over analytical mind will enjoy it.

In regards to the Fevola issue I AM strong on my opinion. WHY? I worked with him at U18 level and have had conversations with him on several occassions. My PROFESSIONAL opinion is that he is a negative on the club and for me the club should ALWAYS come first. This is not an attack on his personality or his ability. This is based on his effect on the CLUB!

The good thing about this is that TIME will be the judge.

I believe Fev will stay but it is important that his bad moments are not tolerated. The damage it does is enormous. No one is happier than I when he is ON. He is a joy to watch.

I have been a member since 1978 and find it incredible that someone can make an assessment on my support for our club.

Any opinions will be appreciated! Please feel free to be candid, I would prefer it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:14 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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You say time will make the call re: Fev, well I think there has been enough time to make the call and quite frankly I am with you.

Fev is a mercurial player, but his attitude is all wrong. He shows glimpses but at 27 he should be a consistent leader.

He'll never grow up and if we can get two decent picks for him I would say "show me the picks"

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:19 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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bluechucky wrote:
Fev is a mercurial player, but his attitude is all wrong. He shows glimpses but at 27 he should be a consistent leader


That I totally agree with. Love to see him turn it around but my belief is it won't happen and after ten years he owes the club big time. If you draw a timeline through his career his good form has always followed an incident where he has been in trouble but it never lasts. It is an emotional rollercoaster that I believe the club does not need.

As I have stated before if a Bentick or Carrazzo did this how would we treat them? Excuses should not be made in a team environment just becuase someone is a better player.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:21 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I agree with you too, cj, however I'm a little disappointed you don't like MY posts :cry: .

We can't 'not tolerate' his dummy spits and go and sign him up for 3 years. I agree that he'll never be a champion footballer until he sorts out his head. He's running out of time, I reckon we've gone past that fork in the road.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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The Duke wrote:
I agree with you too, cj, however I'm a little disappointed you don't like MY posts :cry: .


Sorry Duke, definitley should of had you in there along with a few others. :oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:26 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Watched Mark loves Sharon last night kept thinking who is he- Cousins- Carey Warne or Fev -

Cj it gets heated in here some times thats why the mods ban a lot - different opinions stir different emotions and its hard keeping the personal attacks out of the arguement

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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cj69 wrote:
The Duke wrote:
I agree with you too, cj, however I'm a little disappointed you don't like MY posts :cry: .


Sorry Duke, definitley should of had you in there along with a few others. :oops:


No.... no,no,no,no,no,, that's fine. By the way, what does cj stand for? Never mind, i'll work it out myself :wink: .

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:39 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Not sure what sort opinion you are after (ie topic)

If its about Fev then its fairly obvious that there are 2 groups of posters - those that love Fev because of his outgoing demeanour and goals kicked and hence support him regardless of what goes on, and those that take a more discerning view and are prepared to criticise him on ocassion or even contemplate the worth of trading him.

Over time the numbers in the second group has gradually increased as people have gotten sick of Fevs antics however there is little doubt that there is also a subgroup here that will fluctuate between loving and hating the playeer (just as they do with fringe players after a win or loss).

If you are asking for an opinion on whether or not you deserved criticism for your post then I can only say harden the F... up :wink: - its an open forum, people will disagree with you on ocassion and sometimes even attack you through their posts. As others have said dont take it too personally. Stick with your convictions, post well reasoned debate and the majority of posters will respect you for your ability to do so over time regardless of whether or not they might agree with your opinion on certain issues.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:13 pm
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[quote="cj69"]Would like to get some other opinions on this as I find this highly interesting!!!!


The reason I post on this site is that I can voice my opinion and it is open for debate. For the most part the discussion is civilised and interesting. There are numerous posters (Melvey, Synbad, RR, BondiBlue, Molly, Mjonc etc) on this website that I enjoy reading as they put forward an intelligent and well thought out opinion. "

You had me until this bit! :roll: :roll: :roll: :-D :-D :-D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:48 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Agree CJ, good post.

Sorry mate, in a hurry, want to look at the "Brown To Carlton" thread :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:51 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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nice post.

Whatever happens we will be the winners.


As long as the club is strong of course.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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4thchicken wrote:
If its about Fev then its fairly obvious that there are 2 groups of posters - those that love Fev because of his outgoing demeanour and goals kicked and hence support him regardless of what goes on, and those that take a more discerning view and are prepared to criticise him on ocassion or even contemplate the worth of trading him.


Good work 4th, totally disagree, but your description of the two groups is very well constructed spin. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:57 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Jarusa wrote:
4thchicken wrote:
If its about Fev then its fairly obvious that there are 2 groups of posters - those that love Fev because of his outgoing demeanour and goals kicked and hence support him regardless of what goes on, and those that take a more discerning view and are prepared to criticise him on ocassion or even contemplate the worth of trading him.


Good work 4th, totally disagree, but your description of the two groups is very well constructed spin. :wink:


:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:16 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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These forums are just like an ongoing episode of Kenny vs Spenny.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:43 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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An "open post to all" is an oxymoron......


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 12:06 pm
Posts: 2098
4thchicken wrote:
If you are asking for an opinion on whether or not you deserved criticism for your post then I can only say harden the F... up


More than happy for critisicm, actually just after peoples opinions. Self assessment is a big part of my profession and we do not always see what is actually there!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:00 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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mikkey wrote:
An "open post to all" is an oxymoron......


It's actually a tautology......

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:10 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:00 am
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TheBluesMuse wrote:
mikkey wrote:
An "open post to all" is an oxymoron......


It's actually a tautology......


correctomundo


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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in regards to the 'I am a better supporter than you' stuff - don't worry about it, (cos you know I never do - whistlingangelwithhalocon)

the thing is some people just have to resort to this stuff, its like telling verbs or Sydney they have no clue because they are not in Melbourne (with Deano this is true, but then, its true of tommi and he lives in Melbourne!)

as for the Fev thing I think some of us who in various ways have worked with groups understand how negative a single person can be (without intention) within a group. My view is that Fev is such. I firmly believe that we will not win a flag with him in the side and do not think he is capable of change. So for me, to support Carlton I also support trading Fev but then I also get that its just my fantasy cards stuff cos the club is not going to read my ythread and go 'oh right then, we'll trade Fev'.

And every time he pulls on a jumper and kicks a goal I scream just as loudly as everyone else - thats football.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:20 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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I have always thought of cyberspace as a place for lonely, boring fools, who do not understand what they are missing outside their door, whilst sitting infront of a computer and talking through their fingers. In the past, I preferred to make money from these people.

Since I discovered TC a few years back, through a great mate of mine, now I too am a victim. I now understand you guys...you're so passionate about Carlton as I am, and you need your Carlton fix.

So what's the fix? Well anything that symbolises the richness of our cherished and glorious past, and anything better than the last 5 years. For me it's a little more, given I live so far away from Carlton and AFL homelan TC keeps me in touch with likeminded people; not necessarily people I agree with either. Now go to other sites and you'll see why I consider TC as a site with more depth, intelligent discussion, and first for the news from the inner sanctum; after all Directors of the club even join in on the discussion, such is the value of the site.

Recently, I've shared a few barbs with a few TC posters (such as verbs and Blue Ice), and after my post, I feel terrible; not because of what I believe, but because those people I choose to (lets say) argue with are my Blue Blooded Brethren; they're not the enemy, but you'd think I think they were. Nah, like another classic TC poster 4th Chicken said..."harden the **** up".....see post above.

It's interesting, I am so busy this time of the year, I promised not to get onto TC today, but here I am. Why? To just have a peep, which turns into a fix when I make time to be compassionate towards my fellow TCer and loyal Carltonian, cj.

We are all correct. None of us are Nostradamus. None of us really know everything that goes on in the club, yet we all value our own opinions, sometimes to the point of being god...and it feels good when you're incognito.

Look, when it comes to Fev, I love him because he's a larikin and a damn good footy player when he's on! I love larikins and I don't admine comformists too much; you know mono culture.

I believe he's been hard done by by the umpires (obvious) and by the club, for not supporting him against this unhealthy disdain shown towards him by umpires. Having said that, we must look at the other side of the argument: how much of this does Fev attract, rightly or wrongly? The answer is that he does attract it. He's a tall poppy but one that straight-laced types, (probably boring old farts of umpires) can't cope with him be allowed by his wife and family to be so extraverted; that's just how society works. Those in power can control those they dislike or envy. (@#$%&! umpires).

You know, give 'em a whistle and then you give them power; and usualyy it's to the kid who was bullied at school turning the tables in later life. Whinging to the umpires which many are sick of (including me, because it doesn't help) wouldn't happen if the umpires paid it as they see it...well would it...then the Fev body language thing wouldn't be such a big issue. Nevertheless, it is a big issue, and he knows it, and only he can fix that.

Personally, I love him. My problem with him is the bad Fev, and the fact he is getting all the attention when we the media and footy followers should be admiring the club's climb up the ladder, the development of the kids and all the phenomena of the modern day phoenix (Carlton). The other thing which worries me about Fev, is that in a GF, in the last minute of the 4th Q when we are 3 points down and Fev erans a blatant free kick in the goalsquare, and the umpire doesn't pay it (as usual), then the siren goes...who are we going to blame; the umpire or Fev? Whatever, it'll be too late for anything.

Can we do well without Fev? I strongly believe Carlton will win premierships in the future without Fev, and so will other clubs.

Fev is not Carlton, and Fev is not the be all to end all.

Fev and his advisors have really made some wrong choices of late, where Fev has backed himself into a corner by saying too much and not reasoning with "the bird in the hand". In other words he hasn't weighed up the expectation (what he's worth) and the desire (what he's prepared to accept to be where he wants; Carlton), because you can't have both....and still not have a contract signed. Something really wrong about the situation between club and Fev....a lot of bad blood, which is unhealthy. The club has spoken and the writing is on the wall, regardless of what we think....and that's all I'm going to say about that (till he signs)

Fev is becoming tired old news, but I hope he stays, wins the Coleman, kicks goals in our winning premiership and forget all the bad things of the past...because then they wont matter. If he doesn't, truth is we will keep going strong:

HF: Houlihan Kreuzer Walker
F: Betts Waite Gibbs

and there's plenty more we could play forward (including stars we will draft this year and next year) Fisher, Thornton, Armfield, Browne...I could go on.

There's only 1 JUDD; and we can depend on him for the next 5 years.

Come on Fev, dig yourself out of this and show the world GREAT FEV to finish your career on a high...if you have that in you.

Keep it coming cj...bring it on...lets have another debate. :wink:

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Last edited by bondiblue on Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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