Went to the game last night, sat on the wing in the MCC members and took notes all night. I have deliberatley not listened to radio or watched TV since or read anyone elses posts.

I have written a summary of what I saw which I believe needs serious consideration at the end of the season.

I will preface this by saying that we have improved significantly this year and I believe 10 wins will be a fantastic effort but last night we were beaten by a pretty average side.

To go forward again next year, tough decisions will need to be made.

Points:

Carrazzo: Is NOT a defender, is essentially a ball magnet yet is played in defence which could effectively kill his career. Has no idea when ball is in flight or overhead. Browne or Anderson should be filling this role.

Cloke: Is NOT a ruckman. Last night everytime he went into the ruck they put Kosi on him and he pushed fwd kicking a couple of goals. Was very soft. Need to recruit and big bodied ruckman until others mature. Looks better at CHF. For me either there or nothing.

Fisher & Wiggins: Cannot play both in same side. Actually have huge doubts on either of them progressing much further, to many weaknesses that will be exposed by better sides.

Fevola: DISGRACE, should downgrade offer now! Don't know what was on TV but several bits will be looked at by tribunal. Way he spoke to several teammates was disgraceful. Actually seemed happy after game. NOT worth the big money offered.

Bentick: Was ordinary, looked slow.

Stevens: Don't know what was going on. Looked injured or sick. Seemed to jog everywhere. Has an attitude when not number one man. Not the future.

Waite: Is NOT a key defender. Teams know isolate him deep in defence where he gets caught out playing body on body. Okay on lead and when attacking but not a defender. More value in midfield or fwd.

Jamison: Looks injured although thought he was good on Reiwoldt.

Gibbs: Really starting to step up. Poise is fantastic. Best of the No.1 picks for me.

Betts: Needs to get involved more. Can be awesome but now has enough games in him to be more influential.

Russell: Simply NOT up to it. Never has been, never will.

Judd: Copped hell all night and worked butt off. A few could learn from his example.

Edwards: Why is he playing? Has been ordinary in reserves and looked absolutely lost last night. Long way to go.

Grigg: Was okay on Dal Santo, works hard.

Simpson: Love his efforts.

Scotland: Not accountable enough, needs to address this for future.

All in all, skills are a concern, so is depth especially up fwd and ruck. Some players can look good against average opposition but get found out against better sides. If some cannot stand up against an average side like St Kilda then they simply are not up to it!!!

Excellent post cj69.

I agree with pretty much everything you have said, but think that Waite can play KP in the backline. It is also his preference.

How did you view Joeys game last night?

I was at the game, saw him do a couple of nice things, but ws having too much fun with some work colleagues and subsequently missed some of the action. I need to sit down and watch the tape.

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

I don't like to be negative but I agree with you particularly on this point cj69.
To me Edwards doesn't have enough tricks to be a viable forward target at AFL level.

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In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth.

Pretty much spot on IMO.

We have nothing to lose in playing Aussie at CHB for the rest of the year and move Waite to CHF and banish Fisher to the reserves.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

great post, agree with pretty much everything especially edwards. he hasn't done much when given the chances. russell should be off our list this time next year. i was thinking the exact same thing about carrazzo. he makes shitty little forwards like milne and monfries look good. he gave monfries his best game ever and let milne bag 5 on him. not good enough, lets see him play in the postition that saw him win the clubs b&f!! Fisher and wiggins are really frustrating. their kicking is very unreliable but are both really good marks, and as you said they dont seem to be getting any better. judd was fantastic and did give his absolute all, but just about everybody else didn't.

IN: Blackwell/Austin , Jackson, Walker
OUT: Russell, Edwards, Browne/Fisher

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"You don’t get much more Navy Blue than Stephen Kernahan" - Marc Murphy

Good post but....

Carrazo beat Nathan Brown last week

Wiggins was the 'match winner' last week


This is the problem. When we win they played great, when we lose its the wrong position etc.

Whilst i agree that perhaps Russell Wiggins and Edwards and even Fish need to be dropped to give others a go, i wouldn't go as far as saying they cant play that position or they have to go year end.

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Loooook OUT!

Joey was just OK, but I noticed in last qtr he could hardly lift his legs. Backing up after only 5 days from Ants game really found him out. MC may have done Tex a favour after all.

For the moment, I'd say Army has well and truly got his "role" covered in the team, but he's worth persisting with, no doubt.

Re Waitey, didn't Geoff Southby (and Doully?) always want to play forward? Sometimes, what's best for the player isn't always best for the team.

I know Fisher has been ordinary, but in his defence, he is playing a role which IMO is not his forte, second best forward or a pseudo CHF. Fisher is a good third or fourth string forward who will expose his opponents, but when Fev went off in the second, Hudgton went to him and he had no hope. I think Blake was his opponent for the rest of the night.

Agree there are facets of his game that have been exposed like body strength, and losing his feet too easily, but reality is he ain't our CHF and never will be, and will always attract the oppositions' second best defender (usually their CHB) but at the moment we have no other choice unless Hartlett gets his act together, body and form wise.

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

I disagree that he beat Brown. 6pts that should of been at least 3 goals.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Joey was fair at best. He seem to come on and off the bench a bit which made it hard on him. Certainly gave it his all and will be a very good player. Would like to see Ratts play him and Browne in defence where they played ALL their junior footy and why they were selected. They are certainly a better option than Carrazzo.

Cheers.

I feel he will be part of our next premiership team....

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

Humpers, I don't like to be negative either but my points here are more what I believe are realistic. We have come so far this year but to match it with the Geelongs etc we need to keep turning over our so so players. Tough decisions need to be made.

great post.

we still got a long way to go but on the up no doubt. Tough decisions need to be made

i hope next week our forward structure is mixed up. I'd bring in Walks and Hartts and settle them both down there for the rest of the year

With Hartts to be the hit up forward, walks 40 meters out taking some screamers and Fev offering the lead.

Walks could be dangerous and so to Hartts both keeping there opponents honest and thinking twice getting off them to cover Fev.

I would actually like to see us go with a more mobile fwd line ala Bulldogs.

I would have Hartlett inside 50 with Betts, Scotland, Walker & Waite.

Would actually like to see Thornton given a run up fwd as well.

Walker & Waite rotate through midfield giving 4 man fwd line with extra run off HB ala Geelong.

Like to see it but it won't happen.

Melvey - that's the most sensible, constructive post by you I have ever read. Maybe it's not just Carlton that are on the up, maybe you are as well!

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I'm shocked to be sitting here

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to come up with the "tough decisions need to be made" post....

Every year is a tough decision year and if I'm not mistaken we've turned over our list more than any other team over the past 5-6 years. We don't need to start culling the list of 10 players... particularly based on one or two poor efforts. Did anyone really expect us to be playing finals this year? Or to be a perfectly consistent team. I for one didn't. We just wanted to see improvement in players and in the game plan. We've seen both.

A couple of players will surely be looked at - or will go:
Edwards, Benjamin, Blackwell

and there are a few more mature bodies that are just there for depth... Wiggins, Bannister, Cloke, etc

It just amuses me that after every loss, someone has to come out and bag our better players whether it is Waite or Fisher or Stevens or Scotland.

Fish had an injury interupted start to the year and is playing a CHF role which he is not suited to. Once we can get another CHB to replace Waite and shift him back to the forward line, or Kreuz develops into a CHF in a few years, Fish can move back to the 3rd tall role where he can have the same sort of impact he's had in the past.

As for Russell... after every loss someone comes out and starts having a go at him. Russell was average last night (as were many others), but he has been steadily improving and he has a role. I wouldnt be writing him off by no means.

Carrots worries me more. Just a terrible user of the ball by foot. I'm not sure if modern footy can afford a player like that.

I hate losing last night, but I'm not worried. Just like I wasn't worried after we had lost the first 3 games of the year. I see progress. I see spirit. We fight to the end even if we don't get the points, something we havent been able to do for 7 years. It's early days in our revival and patience is needed. My view is at the end of the year, we cut 5-6 players and don't make wholesale changes unless we can recruit some additional experienced guns - which is always highly unlikely.

One last thing. Hampson should be in the team. Our structure is so much better with the third tall.

This is one point I have trouble with. For me Russell has not progressed at all. His disposal under pressure is poor. He doesn't get much of it. The only difference this year is that he has been given more game time.

Speak to other clubs and he is not rated at all.

I wanna see us try something new. Forget finals this year the rest of 2008 should be about developing, preparing and building for season 2009 and the future.

russell wasnt brilliant last night - but he also wasnt as bad as whats made out on here

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Now this is a good post.

I would have thought we'd learned patience over the last 5-6 years, but some haven't.

The team is inconsistent, which shows up in our win loss sequence for most of the year.

The only thing I disagree on is Hampson. Our structure doesn't work with 3 ruckmen. We've had the three of them in the side twice and Hampson has had about 35% game time. Thats not benefitting him or the team at all.

I think Kreuzer is ready for a break and Hampson should take his place then. Playing one of them as a forward has worked once in the last against Port Adelaide

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010