Let’s start with the basics – highest score wins. Further, it’s much easier to take the lead, and thus win the game, if you’re kicking goals rather than behinds. It’s a lesson Port Adelaide must have known, but just couldn’t enforce given their 2.10 in the final quarter on the weekend. Never mind our horrible luck in registering 6 posters, and the emerging conspiracy theory of thicker posts over there in South Australia, but more on that later. In rounds 1-4, 91% of games have followed the rule of 'most goals wins'. The exceptions have been our draw on Saturday night, where Carlton kicked more goals but couldn’t snatch the game, our Round 2 victory over Essendon* where the super accurate Bombers kicked 1 more goal but had 9 less scoring shots than us and thankfully lost, and the Essendon* v Hawthorn game where the Bombers hung on despite the Hawks kicking an additional goal. It was good to see the Bombers finally missing those shots after an almost miraculous 17.4 against us the week before, but with a Video Umpire they might have lost that game too. Clearly, this is an overwhelming statistic, but pretty logical as well.

But similar to the cricket expression “Catches win Matchesâ€

nice one Molsey...agree with those who say accuracy has killed us (but as you point out) that's been a bit of a midfield and defensive pressure problem.

Don't like Juzzy's figures at all....wow are they that bad!?! I knew he'ld missed a few

_________________
“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

Jarusa? Is that you?

Hehe, no Jarusa is a separate entity.... I just happen to enjoy stats myself as well!

I think waite also had a couple of out of bounds on the full as well.
Would have been a lot closer against Carringbush the other week if Waite and Davies were more accurate

Yes, including one from 40m out directly in front. I can't seem to locate OOBOF data, it would be useful to have it and include OOBOFs in the F50 say.

Molesy, I would have thought the stats would have borne out that in Rounds 1, 2 and 3 that these teams kicked way above the AFL average with respect to accuracy.

At least Port kicked way below the AFL average.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Sorry mate - just taking the piss!

I wish I knew more about footy so I could join in to these discussions but, for what it's worth ...

The spine is obviously the important 'bit' in a structure [Whitnall, Fevola] but I WISH there were better ploys to bring the little fellas in to marking and goalscoring contention. I KNOW that Davies is there to crumb and apply defensive pressure but it annoys me that the ball will predictably go to one of two blokes. If it's OBVIOUS that that is going to happen to the opposition, then surely it's OBVIOUS to the coaching staff that they need to come up with ingeneous ploys to find other goalscoring options

That's a bit of a general statement, I know - especially with Longmuir and Deluca in the forward line providing genuine targets - but essentially there doesn't SEEM to be any set plays to bring the wee ones into the game

I still haven't figured out whether footy really uses set plays. In union this is a huge feature of the game - then again, union is played in three directions [front & sideways] - footy in four - so I guess the unpredictability of play precludes any option of setting up a ... er ... set play, per se

Anyway, what I really meant to say is - where are the midfield goalkickers? For a game that doesn't have an offside rule [yet!], there seems to be an AWFUL preponderance of players from the forward line kicking the goals. Yes, I know the obvious answer to that ridiculous question, but ... Pagan wanted Stevens kicking more goals this year. For a game that is played 360 degrees on a big arse field, it's an amazingly structured, regulated, formulaic game.

And I love every bit of it, by the way - in case it sounds like I don't. Because I do. so there

Shit - one more thing ... these blokes have been kicking a footy for upwards of 20 years. Why do they shank kicks? Because of the shape of the ball? I find the footy much easier and more predictable to kick than a rugby ball - and I grew up with rugby balls [some of my best friends were etc]. Because of the pressure? I SUPPOSE it's tough to have a bunch of people watching you take a kick but one would think that after 15-20 years you'd be pretty bloody good at it. I just find it remarkable that this fundamental element of the game - kicking the bloody ball - is such a mystery to so many players. This paragraph doesn't actually require any response because I know it's a bit naive - I just really needed a rant!

Anyway, hopefully this post is at least as big yours, Molsey - and a minimum 3% as informative - if it is, I'm a winner

Very interesting. In terms of "For", its as follows:

1. Melbourne 458
2. Geelong 419
3. Bulldogs 417
4. Carlton 412
5. St Kilda 396

Worst:Freemantle 278

So this says that despite not recapturing our wizzer cup form, the forward line has functioned well. It's the backs that are the problem:

=16th Carlton , Bulldogs 448 Against
14 th Essendon* 419
=12th Port Adelaide, Collingwood 394.

Best: Adelaide 274

_________________
"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost

That's the way it is at the moment though - to win games of footy we're having to kick big scores. We've scored 110, 108 and 109 respectively in the last three weeks but we only won one of those - by four points.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Agreed we need more goals kicked from midfield. That was one of the strong features of our pre-season form. Having Chambers back in the side and hitting the scorecard again, played a major part in us getting half way over the line on Saturday night.

The fact that Stevens has to do kick in duties probably doesn't help with his goalkicking. Which, I think, is a bit of a longer term issue for us. It would be great for our continuing development to get a permanent defender into the side who is both accurate and long in his kicking (someone like Fletcher or Hunt would be nice - maybe Hartlett will be our man). This would lessen the defensive load a little on our onballers. And it should release them to be a little more attacking and dangerous on the scoreboard.

I for one would love to see Thornton take our kick outs. It shits me no end to see Stevens, Campo, Lappin and Houlihan taking our kickouts - these guys should be on the receiving end of kick outs and linking up for the following possession.

I recall at one of Pagan's Coaches Luncheons last year someone asked this same question and he said "Thornton shits himself when he takes kick outs", now this is what Pagan said.

But in anycase it has always seemed a waste to me to see one of our quality link players taking the kickouts.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Re kickouts, what about Karl Norman?

He's a long kick, pretty accurate, can kick both feet.

Alternatively, what about someone like a Cory McGrath? I rate McGrath as generally a good disposer of the ball.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Agro - but don't we need THornton to field some of the kick-ins? The days of KPP's taking the kicks are long gone in my view, the need to make sure that the kickout is successful and at least (whether it takes 2-3 possies or not) clears the D50 is the main requirement. The 1-2 of a midfielder taking it, and running on for the HB is our standard tactic.

ps good discussion guys.

For Carlton games, our opponents have been kicking at 63%, and in Rounds 1-3 when the Gods were against us, an amazing 72%!

Thanks Agro.

2 new forwards played for us last week - Longmuir 2.2 and Chambers 2.0. Could Chambers have taken Davies's spot? All along I have thought it would be Chambers v Scotland for the outside finisher role, but he played most of Saturday night on the F50 line...

This was after Port.

Two rounds later and:

We are now 8th in attack and LAST in defence, all on our own:

AFL Ladder
P Team P W L D F A % Pts
1 West Coast 7 7 0 - 736 522 141 28
2 Melbourne 7 5 2 - 759 642 118.22 20
3 Geelong 7 5 2 - 745 640 116.41 20
4 Richmond 7 5 2 - 742 665 111.58 20
5 Kangaroos 7 5 2 - 624 609 102.46 20
6 Fremantle 7 4 3 - 704 581 121.17 16
7 St Kilda 7 4 3 - 753 647 116.38 16
8 Adelaide 7 4 3 - 615 556 110.61 16
9 Western Bulldogs 7 3 4 - 737 752 98.01 12
10 Sydney 7 3 4 - 556 624 89.10 12
11 Port Adelaide 7 2 4 1 574 688 83.43 10
12 Carlton 7 2 4 1 651 785 82.93 10
13 Brisbane 7 2 5 - 646 725 89.10 8
14 Essendon* 7 2 5 - 574 718 79.94 8
15 Hawthorn 7 1 6 - 583 660 88.33 4
16 Collingwood 7 1 6 - 581 766 75.85 4

Is this just a backline issue, or is it poor defensive pressure from the midfield?

_________________
"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost

Both.
Hopefully Livo will be back soon..and with Fev in we can float BArney or Whitts in defence without too much damage in the forward line...OH and lots more pressure in the middle boys!!!!!

_________________
“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

0.5.5 plus 1 OOBOF in the first quarter... even 3.3 would have sustained our comebacks so much better. We could have hit the front - if we had have been in the game rather than 5 goals behind could it have been different?

Should we look at games like this as 11 goal thrashings or as missed opportunity loss + letting go at the end. Clearly they were dispirited, I reckon all those missed shots, especially Walkers OOBOF which was after really good, solid, hard working play into the F50, it could have been different.

In my mind, Friday night was very different to the week before. We played a top 4 team and missed so many of our key chances, before letting it slide as we collectively gave up.

mose, did not see Richmond, but our first quarter againnst Geelong was devastating. All that hard work for no reward. You're right let's say 3.2 at quarter time, and then Fev kick's four - different story.

_________________
"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost