TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Too early for the Blues?

Melvey wrote:

...Our priority must be develop as many kids as possible and get some game time and experience into them...

I agree 100%.

But this whole "we're not ready for finals" crap is just simply unfathomable?!

Not ready for what? Not ready for experiencing finals football? Not ready for disappointment? Not ready for success?

Sorry, but that’s bullshit.

Melvey said above our priority must be to get some game time and experience. The popular theory is that blockbuster games, like last weekend, add around 10 games of “experience” to kids. Some even say a blockbuster is akin to finals football. So what better way to gather finals experience than to actually play finals football?

Yeah but what if we get smashed? Well, in case you’ve missed it, we’ve become pretty used to dealing with disappointment and floggings over the last few years. Give me the disappointment of losing a final over “winning” another wooden spoon any day.

Not ready for success? I can’t see how anyone can be under prepared for success. Sustainable success, maybe, but as I mentioned above, this has more to do with our ongoing coaching and development policies than anything else. All players dream of playing finals, that is what most kids dream of when they start playing the game. To suggest we should nobly decline the opportunity to play finals is perhaps the most defeatest suggestion I have ever read on this site. And Lord knows there’s been some defeatest crap written on Carlton boards over the last few years.

Football is not formulaic. People are suggesting we should not play finals this year, but assume we’ll be able to waltz in to the finals in 2009 and beyond. Well, expecting something like that to happen, as I suggested earlier, will be the biggest mistake our football club could make. The best thing Ratten could have said after we made the 8 was acknowledging that the real hard work is only just beginning.

We are a proud club and we often make claims that it is our right to play finals football. Now, when that possibility can be mentioned, without flying a roflcopter, we’re getting all weak at the knees and saying “yeah, nah”. flower me, I know the club has been in the shitter for a few years, but I never, ever thought I would hear anyone associated with Carlton knock back a chance at September action.

What is wrong with you people?!

Just like Ratten said, the hard work starts now. If we’re good enough, we’ll make it. If we’re not, we won’t.

If we are in the 8 come R22, good on us, because we will have deserved the opportunity. Regardless of what happens after R22 we will need to improve. No team will sit around at the end of the year thinking they can just sit on their arses and enjoy the off-season because they’re too good to worry about getting better. No matter if we finish last or win the Premiership, our next pre-season has to be one of the toughest the club has ever undertaken.

Finally, we have the makings of a list that is capable of competing at the highest level. And people want to deny that list the opportunity in some la la land belief that doing so will make it easier next year.

Yeah, it’s bloody absurd. Isn’t it!

Author:	Blue Bird [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Too early for the Blues?
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/too-early-for-blues-yes-and-no/2008/06/16/1213468334446.html Parkin has well and truly lost it.

Author:	DownUnderChick [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:25 am ]
Post subject:
I see his point but don't agree with it, but then at the end of the day he has played AND coached, so what do I really know.

Author:	The Duke [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:26 am ]
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These two blokes have obviously forgotten WE ARE CARLTON!! When we get there, we'll have a fairdinkum crack. So what Parkin is saying is that the Hawks shouldn't try to go into a GF this year? Yeah right .

Author:	MonstaBlue [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:27 am ]
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I actually agree with him.... if anyone on here thinks our list is up to a premiership standard then you are dilusional. Our backs and midfield is sorted... we need a forward line. The only way to get quality, is through draft picks. Our ideal situation is to finish 10th this year, let the players start learning how to win again whilst getting some good talent inand we will be set for next year. Should we make the finals this year, the experience would be great, but the players may get ahead of themselves and we won't get the same level of talent in the draft. The greatest drive a sportsman can have is through disappointment.... Put them close, but not close enough and they will want it more over the pre-season. They will go to bed over the break dreaming of finals and come back for 2009 ready to go! Imagine the hype leading into 2009 with the blues with the young list on the charge... if the Hawks can go from 25,000 members to >35,000... Imagine what we can do?? (We will need to move our games from the Dome to fit all our members!!! The oppostion fans can watch at a big screen at MC Hammer!!!) CARRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN THEEEEEEEEEE BLLLLLLLLLLUEEEEE BOYYYYYYYSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Author:	camel [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:40 am ]
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Can we have a bit of perspective here please? Is that too much to ask? We've been in the 8 for less than a week. The "too early" to make the finals is the biggest load of horse crap floating around IMO. Experience is experience. What matters is not if we do or do not make the finals this year, but how the coaching staff and playing group work on continual improvement in 2009 and beyond. If our group makes the finals this year and thinks they'll be certainties for success next year, then--regardless of how talented our list may or may not be--we've got problems. Expect nothing, and work our arses off in pursuit of everything! That should be our motto. So far the response from Ratten and the few players I've heard talk about us being in the 8 has been very positive in that none of them are getting carried away. They know where we stand and they know how much work we have still ahead of us. It would be nice if the spin merchants in the media had a dose of reality from time to time. They say each year the game gets quicker, well, each year the media gets worse at blowing minor news stories completely out of proportion.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	doofdoof [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:13 am ]
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Author:	bluehammer [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:44 am ]
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It's not a stupid thought. Perhaps it's a bit like the EPL - you can get promoted to early, ie make the jump from the Championship to the Prem league too early, such that you'll just go back down again. But we're not even in the finals yet! We've got our fingernails in the 8, but it's not like next week we play an elimination final against 5th. We need to play better in the 2nd half of the season than we have in the first. BETTER. We need to win 6 out of 10 games. Tough! If we do make the finals, it will be because we're good enough to be there as Ratts said. Our players can only grow from playing on the big stage, and games like Sunday's against collingwood, and this week another 70,000 crowd at the G, give an idea of what finals will be like. the first quarter against Collingwood was a tough and finals like atmosphere. Our youngsters stood up. Our list ISN'T premiership standard. But you don't just go from finishing 15th to winning a premiership. To become a premiership winning team, you need finals experience.

Author:	The Duke [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:58 am ]
Post subject:
The Hawks have managed thus far. We're probably a year behind them in terms of team maturity, but they have some key aspects that will mean we're further behind than the 12 months. If we can get into the finals this year and play one or maybe 2, we'll get the reward for effort that will help us go to the next stage in 2009. With no ruck influence, and a single prong forward line, we've done quite well so far. To think, everyone said our major deficiency was our defence, yet now it's second behind our amazing mids . Once our two ruckman get meat on the bones and we settle another large forward, we'll be un-stoppable . We should try Pfieff in a Brad Pierce type role. He's a perfect size and speed for a decoy.

Author:	Blue Bird [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:59 am ]
Post subject:
Good post Camel Monsta I don’t think our list is premiership material (yet ) but this idea that players may get ahead of themselves if they make the finals too early is a bit hard to take. Surely its just as likely that playing finals makes the appetite for the real stuff even greater.

Author:	Molly [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:12 am ]
Post subject:
I heard Glenn Manton a few weeks ago also say that this year would be too early for us to make the finals. My belief would be that finals would be a magnificent learning experience for our youngsters. As it is, we have some really tough games coming up, and we'll need to scratch and scrape just to get into the top 8. I don't think our players would be focusing much beyond these next three weeks anyway, as Carrazzo said yesterday - we lost to Essendon*, Richmond, and St Kilda first time around, so we need to make sure we polish them off this time.

Author:	verbs [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:12 am ]
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If we make the eight come the end of round 22, we will have really earnt it. We have some tough games ahead of us.

Author:	kingkerna [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:39 am ]
Post subject:
The value of experience of not just making the finals but playing in one (or more) is hard to determine, but it surely outweighs Parkins 'too early' argument. And someone needs to tell kouta that we didn't pay him to think.

Author:	Melvey [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:55 am ]
Post subject:
I agree with Parko. We are not ready, besides Collingwood have been shown we are not capable matching it with the big boys yet. Lions spanked us, Geelong the same and we lost to the crows. We don't have the bodies to see it out, the younger blokes may well tire come years end Our priority must be develop as many kids as possible and get some game time and experience into them. The kids are the future of us becoming a regular top eight side. At the moment we have Juddy willing us in the last quarters, yeah he has got support but we can not rely on him to get his up week in week out. In my eyes i would prefer just to miss out and prepare for season 2009 than scrape into the eight and get beaten convincingly in a first final. We are definitely on our way up and why not use this year to get games into Hartts, Edwards, Ando and Austin.

Author:	Blue Bird [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:01 am ]
Post subject:
Right so we should tank the finals then.

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Author:	kingkerna [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:01 am ]
Post subject:
nothing personal Melv but that was a poor argument, quick, stop winning boys we need more games into younger players. Quote: besides Collingwood have been shown we are not capable matching it with the big boys yet. What is that supposed to mean? The experience of making it will be invaluable, if we don't and finish 8-10th we have still shown good progress.

Author:	camel [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:24 am ]
Post subject:
Melvey wrote: ...Our priority must be develop as many kids as possible and get some game time and experience into them... I agree 100%. But this whole "we're not ready for finals" crap is just simply unfathomable?! Not ready for what? Not ready for experiencing finals football? Not ready for disappointment? Not ready for success? Sorry, but that’s bullshit. Melvey said above our priority must be to get some game time and experience. The popular theory is that blockbuster games, like last weekend, add around 10 games of “experience” to kids. Some even say a blockbuster is akin to finals football. So what better way to gather finals experience than to actually play finals football? Yeah but what if we get smashed? Well, in case you’ve missed it, we’ve become pretty used to dealing with disappointment and floggings over the last few years. Give me the disappointment of losing a final over “winning” another wooden spoon any day. Not ready for success? I can’t see how anyone can be under prepared for success. Sustainable success, maybe, but as I mentioned above, this has more to do with our ongoing coaching and development policies than anything else. All players dream of playing finals, that is what most kids dream of when they start playing the game. To suggest we should nobly decline the opportunity to play finals is perhaps the most defeatest suggestion I have ever read on this site. And Lord knows there’s been some defeatest crap written on Carlton boards over the last few years. Football is not formulaic. People are suggesting we should not play finals this year, but assume we’ll be able to waltz in to the finals in 2009 and beyond. Well, expecting something like that to happen, as I suggested earlier, will be the biggest mistake our football club could make. The best thing Ratten could have said after we made the 8 was acknowledging that the real hard work is only just beginning. We are a proud club and we often make claims that it is our right to play finals football. Now, when that possibility can be mentioned, without flying a roflcopter, we’re getting all weak at the knees and saying “yeah, nah”. @#$%&! me, I know the club has been in the shitter for a few years, but I never, ever thought I would hear anyone associated with Carlton knock back a chance at September action. What is wrong with you people?! Just like Ratten said, the hard work starts now. If we’re good enough, we’ll make it. If we’re not, we won’t. If we are in the 8 come R22, good on us, because we will have deserved the opportunity. Regardless of what happens after R22 we will need to improve. No team will sit around at the end of the year thinking they can just sit on their arses and enjoy the off-season because they’re too good to worry about getting better. No matter if we finish last or win the Premiership, our next pre-season has to be one of the toughest the club has ever undertaken. Finally, we have the makings of a list that is capable of competing at the highest level. And people want to deny that list the opportunity in some la la land belief that doing so will make it easier next year. Yeah, it’s bloody absurd. Isn’t it!

Author:	Taff [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:43 am ]
Post subject:
camelboy wrote: Melvey wrote: ...Our priority must be develop as many kids as possible and get some game time and experience into them... I agree 100%. But this whole "we're not ready for finals" crap is just simply unfathomable?! Not ready for what? Not ready for experiencing finals football? Not ready for disappointment? Not ready for success? Sorry, but that’s bullshit. Melvey said above our priority must be to get some game time and experience. The popular theory is that blockbuster games, like last weekend, add around 10 games of “experience” to kids. Some even say a blockbuster is akin to finals football. So what better way to gather finals experience than to actually play finals football? Yeah but what if we get smashed? Well, in case you’ve missed it, we’ve become pretty used to dealing with disappointment and floggings over the last few years. Give me the disappointment of losing a final over “winning” another wooden spoon any day. Not ready for success? I can’t see how anyone can be under prepared for success. Sustainable success, maybe, but as I mentioned above, this has more to do with our ongoing coaching and development policies than anything else. All players dream of playing finals, that is what most kids dream of when they start playing the game. To suggest we should nobly decline the opportunity to play finals is perhaps the most defeatest suggestion I have ever read on this site. And Lord knows there’s been some defeatest crap written on Carlton boards over the last few years. Football is not formulaic. People are suggesting we should not play finals this year, but assume we’ll be able to waltz in to the finals in 2009 and beyond. Well, expecting something like that to happen, as I suggested earlier, will be the biggest mistake our football club could make. The best thing Ratten could have said after we made the 8 was acknowledging that the real hard work is only just beginning. We are a proud club and we often make claims that it is our right to play finals football. Now, when that possibility can be mentioned, without flying a roflcopter, we’re getting all weak at the knees and saying “yeah, nah”. flower me, I know the club has been in the shitter for a few years, but I never, ever thought I would hear anyone associated with Carlton knock back a chance at September action. What is wrong with you people?! Just like Ratten said, the hard work starts now. If we’re good enough, we’ll make it. If we’re not, we won’t. If we are in the 8 come R22, good on us, because we will have deserved the opportunity. Regardless of what happens after R22 we will need to improve. No team will sit around at the end of the year thinking they can just sit on their arses and enjoy the off-season because they’re too good to worry about getting better. No matter if we finish last or win the Premiership, our next pre-season has to be one of the toughest the club has ever undertaken. Finally, we have the makings of a list that is capable of competing at the highest level. And people want to deny that list the opportunity in some la la land belief that doing so will make it easier next year. Yeah, it’s bloody absurd. Isn’t it! Great post CB Being in finals will take care itself if we do all the "right" things. If we make finals we will have earned it and we take our chances from there. If not then we know we have more to do.

Author:	Melvey [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:44 am ]
Post subject:
kingkerna wrote: :roll: nothing personal Melv but that was a poor argument, quick, stop winning boys we need more games into younger players. Quote: besides Collingwood have been shown we are not capable matching it with the big boys yet. What is that supposed to mean? The experience of making it will be invaluable, if we don't and finish 8-10th we have still shown good progress. Look what i was saying we could use this year to get as many games and experience into our boys and then launch our assault in 2009. The lions did it last year they played as many kids as they could. Got 10 or so games into them which helped with there development. Im not saying i want us to lose games. We have shown we can be competitive but this year is a development year the chance to get games into our kids before we have to pick our best side week in week out. There was no expectation this year bar than be competitive and win more games and we have shown that.

Author:	The Hoff [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:56 am ]
Post subject:
I reckon we play our @sses off for the rest of the season and see how we go. If we're not ready, we won't get there: the last 6-7 weeks are going to be tough enough as it is.

Author:	kingkerna [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:05 am ]
Post subject:
we're getting games into kids anyway Melvey so your argument is redundant.