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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:02 am 
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Garry Crane
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OK getting something off my manb**bs
Got a message in FB stating that its 15 years today since the 99 prelim

Without a doubt it was one of the best days of my life. I went to the game, with much trepidation as to be honest because leading up to this game Essendon* were twice the team the Blues were. And yet we mugged those smug Bombres fans…it was so sweet!

I've revisted the match so many times that I can remember a bunch of Sandy Robertson's and the ex-field umpire's crap commentary.

For awhile during the Pagan era, watching this match was a balm that soothed an aching heart after the Blues got flogged on a painfully regular occurrence. Occasionally on this forum someone would mention the game and many would reminisce fondly of that great day and how we wrecked Essendon*’s season. And it was great!
Others would extort us to forget the damn game and stop living in the past and to face up to what was happening ‘now’. And I didn’t want to hear that – it was too much fun to watch that old game…but they were wise words.
Biut I think that match has more importance than just a glorious victory against the odds. Let’s have a look at it.

What did many see in that game – KOUTA dominating the final qtr and willing the Blues over the line. And some standout moments of brilliance.

What is worth seeing – a team that had rebounded into the finals after a couple of years out. A team made up of two all time greats (Silvagni and Bradley), some champions, some tough nuts, young tyros, and a few guys a bit lucky to be there. A team that got belted in the first week of the finals by about 80 points, but due to the quirks of that finals system (and ground contracts) got to play at the MCG the West Coast Eagles who won in their first week final. A team that played for most of the year a style of footy that was good enough to get them into the 8, but was ineffective against the best teams so it was switched for the West Coast match with some success and was continued for the Preliminary Final. And (of course) a team that had KOUTA, the wildcard who had promised so much over the years but up to that stage had not been a regular match winning player.

And who did we play – an Essendon* team who were premiership favourites and who had belted the Blues twice in the year. A team missing its best player (James Hird) ,and one of its best half dozen in Scott Lucas. A team that was cocky and was looking forward to belting the Kangaroos in the Grand Final, after wiping its feet on Carlton.

And so the beautiful 99 Prelim happened but we didn’t live happily ever after. Outclassed by North in the Grand Final. Oh well…we’ll be back next year!

2000 included an incredible stretch of footy by KOUTA! I dunno if anyone remembers it, but he was just amazing. The best way I could put it would be to imagine Buddy Franklin (at least a Buddy that had heaps of endurance) on the ball getting countless hard ball gets, whilst still being able to get forward and kick goals. Then he got injured and well that’s where it all went downhill.
With him in our side, we were legitimate challengers to the Essendon* juggernaut. Without him, we were the best of the rest. With injuries to Bradley and Silvagni, Carlton was merely a struggling finalist. We were out in the Prelims.

We haven’t been that good again. I’m not blaming poor Kouta. The loss of key players either through injury (Kouta again in 2001 Semi final, which meant missing muc of 2002 with most of the side injured as well), retirements of two all time champs in Bradley and Silvagni, a key young forward in Hamill leaving the Blues for big ca$h (hey you Saint Kilda bastards, that’s OUR trick), a tactically brilliant but inexperienced new coach (Wayne Brittain) and (most importantly) a short sighted recruitment policy, which meant our castle of talent was built on sand.
And did it go all garthp: in 2002! A wooden spoon for Carlton!! HERACY!!! Action needed to be taken. But what to do? We couldn’t just go and buy players like ‘the good old days’ and we were getting pounded by an incredibly harsh penalty for our salary cap breach (hard but perhaps fair ish…see what happened to the Demons a year or so earlier). We couldn’t just go and get the best player in the comp like we did at the end of 1991 with Greg Williams (we broke the rules then too) or just get three great South Australians and some other guns like we did back in 1986 (Bradley, Kernahan, Motley etc)

So we did the next best thing. Sack the COACH and get rid of the old administration. So we got in Dennis Pagan – the North Melbourne mastermind and Graham Smorgan as President…he should be good…he’s got the same surname as that rich guy at Footscray. That was the problem all along…a crap coach in Brittain and corruption with Big Jack.
Maybe with the list of 2000 Pagan may have gotten the Blues back in the game. But the poor blighter had little to work with. OK so maybe he wasn’t the most innovative coach at times, but you gotta admit when a team in relying on a motley crew of cast offs, lazy players, and younguns’ needing a few more seasons to get to their peak things take time…a long time. The savior had become the devil. And Kouta never reached the heights of 2000 again (tho he was still a very good player).
And the administration…yikes!! OK so we were debt ridden to the shizen and had no high draft picks. OK so let’s go the Docklands and leave our spiritual home at Princes Park. Fantastic idea! Come on though we need a savior. Hmmm these draft picked kids are pretty good but…no Buddy or Roughie tho…geez OK hmmm…we need significant cash…DICK PRATT! OUR MONEYED SAVIOUR! You beauty DICK pay off our debts! You beauty Dick get Juddy! JUDDY at the Blues!!! Premierships soon to follow for sure! (Sorry Dennis you don’t get him bye bye). RATTS, the champion back to coach for us…hmm Juddy is great…but we need another one…oh no Dick’s sick ok who’s taking over Sticks! The champ! Things will be OK…now we got the players…almost enough players…maybe the problem is our coach…Ratts well he is kinda dorky looking…was he really that good a player…oh damn so close in 2011, for sure 2012 will be our year…arrgghh!!!We suck again (never mind that we played most of the year without 6 or more of our best players)…hey we might still scrape in the finals…WTF LOSING TO THE GOLD COAST!! SACK THE COACH SACK THE COACH (if we beat the Gold Coast and St Kilda we still would have missed out…ahh who cares). MICK!!! MICK MALTHOUSE THE SAVIOUR. Wayne Hughes rectuiting ARRGH! Shane Rogers...who’s he….GRAHAM WRIGHT GET HIM OUR SAVIOUR…..Malthouse is past it. etc etc

So much of what I've heard and seen over the years amounts to - “Saviors! That’s all we need! Fat cash and a bunch of great players. “
But folks that was the old days. Sure we need good coaching, compentant administration and great recruiting. But is Graham Wright the answer? Has Shane Rogers done a poor job? Have Everitt, Thomas, Docherty been duds?
Have we got a great coach in Malthouse? He’s OK…

Have a bit of a think to the teams who have won flags in the past ten our so years. They were all GREAT teams. Not just one superstar and a bunch of OK players (though most of the teams had them). Some teams were overflowing with talent. All of the teams that stuck around the high echelon for awhile (Cats, Hawks, Swans) have had a stable administration and coaching relations. OK sure the Swans have tons more cash to splash…but bully to them for giving it a crack. And the Cats got what seemed like a billion Father/son picks but good on them. And the Hawks bottomed out in a glorious draft year in 2005 but Burgoyne, Dew, Lake, Hale etc etc were all astute pickups. The teams who weren’t that stable (or perhaps lacking cash/luck) haven’t had the glory run at the top (Port, West Coast, Magpies). And don;’t forget also-rans like St Kilda and the Bulldogs who were really good for a number of years yet just couldn’t quite nail their chances when they had them.
Think of those teams…and think of the Blues now. We’ve got some great players… but still we’ve got way too many holes and we have had this issue all along since our fall from grace in 2001. Judd’s time is near an end and I hate to say it, but when he goes we are gonna be even further away from success than closer to it. I am a naturally optimistic person, so I think finals are on the cards for 2015 if injuries aren’t too bad and we get some consistency from a number of players. Maybe we can go deep…who knows…but I think a finals appearance is a reasonable expectation, and one that would be satisfactory for Carlton.

What I really hope and urge is that we can’t look for ONE person to be the panacea for our ills. We need a team effort throughout the organisation. I really think the recruiting this year (of experienced players at least) was great and hopefully we can continue this in the upcoming draft season. If we don’t land a big fish, I hope we get some great young tiddlers who’ll mature to mighty marlins to destroy opposition in years to come with our then aging champs like Gibbs, Murphy and (hopefully) Thomas. Graham Wright would have been a great pickup. But would have that been the solution to all our ills?
I hope the administration can avoid some of the torpor of the past few years and become innovative and exciting – WITHOUT a billionaire on board!
I hope the players play the Malthouse way (whatever that is) and show the long- suffering supporters that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

If we don’t unite and continue to bicker well...I recommend watching a programme by Mike Sheahan on the 'lost years' of the Tigers 1983-2013. I watched this and whilst I chuckled at our hated enemy, I realized that their hubris was very similar to what Carlton has displayed over the years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0xBJHu7_N4

We need to recognise that we have to unite and that includes our supporters. Sure, we need to ask questions. But I think we need to give our team and our administration time to get it right. We all want a meteoric rise to success but let’s face up to reality. That doesn’t happen often! If we go backwards in 2015 then I’ll probably be up the front yelling Sack SACK etc., but an improvement should be rewarded with a renewed contract for Mick. If we do get a new coach I hope we don't expect a flag within 3 years.

Enjoy the 15th year anniversary of the 99 prelim! And let’s hope in 15 or so years we are celebrating the 15 year anniversary of a Carlton flag.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Good points da dada-da-daah.

1999 was a long time ago a

I remember where I was and the deflation I felt after Kouta did his knee in 2000. He was a colossus that year. There was a large crowd at the pub for that match.

what has been the highlight since 2001?
Beating Essendon* in that final, or Richmond in the other final..

I wish the AFL management spent less time looking after and funding North Melbourne, Melbourne and others and instead invested some time and money in Carlton. The club is up against a system that doesn't want to reward it. Tough times indeed.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:45 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Not sure I can see the fuss about this particular game
Anyhow, to each their own

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:23 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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That was three weeks before my wedding. Can't believe it's been that long.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:13 am 
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Ken Hands
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99prelim wrote:
Not sure I can see the fuss about this particular game
Anyhow, to each their own



:grin: :beer:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:55 am 
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Rod McGregor
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I've never been as accepting of the loss the following week as most people seem to be.

It's very rare that you get a "free hit" on GF day and I really feel that we wasted it by not throwing everything we had at them. Still within two goals half way through the third term.

Six months later we were a far superior team to North Melbourne.

We surrendered meekly and have never been back there since. Could have been the greatest moment in the history of the club.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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I agree.
My recollection was that Parkin used Kouta to stop McKernan in that Grand Final rather than let him do as he pleased.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:17 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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woof wrote:
I agree.
My recollection was that Parkin used Kouta to stop McKernan in that Grand Final rather than let him do as he pleased.


IIRC, same number of scoring shots.
Justin Murphy does his leg during the game
And all the media call it an emphatic win/one sided contest.
We just didnt take our chances
I think Parko ballsed up like he did in 93. Too conservative and predictable
Had we won, my god the celebrations, my god, OMG the celebrations
Oh well, we denied Ess from winning one

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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99prelim wrote:
woof wrote:
I agree.
My recollection was that Parkin used Kouta to stop McKernan in that Grand Final rather than let him do as he pleased.


IIRC, same number of scoring shots.
Justin Murphy does his leg during the game
And all the media call it an emphatic win/one sided contest.
We just didnt take our chances
I think Parko ballsed up like he did in 93. Too conservative and predictable
Had we won, my god the celebrations, my god, OMG the celebrations
Oh well, we denied Ess from winning one


I agree that we didn't make the most of it, they were at the end of their run and in 2000 we were a much better side than they were.

We got within 13 points in the 3rd quarter when Beaumont kicked a goal, it seemed this was the move, Kouta in the middle, then brown stuffs his shoulder and murph in career best form does a knee and we get overrun.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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One day I'll watch this game again, but until I do, no comment.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I won a junior national championship gold medal in 1999

geeez it doesn't feel like 15 years ago

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:41 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Franc de Borges wrote:
I've never been as accepting of the loss the following week as most people seem to be.

It's very rare that you get a "free hit" on GF day and I really feel that we wasted it by not throwing everything we had at them. Still within two goals half way through the third term.

Six months later we were a far superior team to North Melbourne.

We surrendered meekly and have never been back there since. Could have been the greatest moment in the history of the club.


I'm glad someone has the courage to say this. I've always been very dubious about the celebration supporters and the club continue to make of the '99 preliminary final. To me, it is almost symbolises the line that separates the old successful Carlton and the new insipid Carlton.

Can anyone imagine the Carlton of the 70's or 80's celebrating a preliminary final win like it was a premiership? The other week I got a tweet from the club. It told me it was 15 years to the day since we'd won that game.

It's fool's gold if you ask me. If we'd beaten North then I get the celebration. But for the first time since I'd started following Carlton in 1982 we started celebrating being almost good enough.

The best thing this club and supporters could do is forget all about this game. If we're going to remember the glory days then look to 81, 82, 87, or 95... don't look to 99.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:12 am 
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Ken Hunter
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grrofunger wrote:
I won a junior national championship gold medal in 1999

geeez it doesn't feel like 15 years ago

Wow! You went from that to.......... this???

Big fall from grace!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:15 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Molly wrote:
Franc de Borges wrote:
I've never been as accepting of the loss the following week as most people seem to be.

It's very rare that you get a "free hit" on GF day and I really feel that we wasted it by not throwing everything we had at them. Still within two goals half way through the third term.

Six months later we were a far superior team to North Melbourne.

We surrendered meekly and have never been back there since. Could have been the greatest moment in the history of the club.


I'm glad someone has the courage to say this. I've always been very dubious about the celebration supporters and the club continue to make of the '99 preliminary final. To me, it is almost symbolises the line that separates the old successful Carlton and the new insipid Carlton.

Can anyone imagine the Carlton of the 70's or 80's celebrating a preliminary final win like it was a premiership? The other week I got a tweet from the club. It told me it was 15 years to the day since we'd won that game.

It's fool's gold if you ask me. If we'd beaten North then I get the celebration. But for the first time since I'd started following Carlton in 1982 we started celebrating being almost good enough.

The best thing this club and supporters could do is forget all about this game. If we're going to remember the glory days then look to 81, 82, 87, or 95... don't look to 99.

Great post. I've said that a few times. It's Collingwood-esque celebrating years where we lost a GF.

AFAIC, the 99 Prelim was just another pretty good game - one in thousands that we've won. Big deal! The 2008 game against Essendon* where Fev kicked 8 goals after 2 minutes before half-time was just as good.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:01 am 
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Ken Hands
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Meh.

I was at 99 prelim and GF and the 'comeback' game (not saying others here weren't...read on).

The comeback game wasn't a final or against great opposition. It was exciting but not the same intensity or arguably the quality as the 99 prelim.

The atmosphere at the '99 prelim was something else, against a seemingly unbeatable team in great form while we'd been an inconsistent rabble leading into the finals. It was incredibly intense, the house packed with supporters of both sides. The following week was a letdown atmosphere-wise because of the ridiculous corporate ticketing possibly combined with NM's lack of followers, and we basically ran out of gas - NM were lucky to strike us at that time but they also brought some pretty good form into the game, and if Campo had'nt've just missed that goal when it seemed like everyone was in the goal square fighting for the ball for years leading up to his rushed shot, and if Murph hadn't gone down when he did, we might not be lamenting our lack of a crack. It was always going to be hard to reproduce that prelim form, especially as it relied a lot on Kouta's ability not long back from injury.

I don't blame supporters for going on about that game, considering what we achieved that day and our lack of success since. Of course, there's a large dose of schadenfreude involved because of the scum, and maybe that's what makes it a bit unpalatable - a bit like Collingwood dining out on (rare) finals wins over us - that it's a scrap from the dinner table. Okay, let's continue to enjoy it, but maybe more as a guilty pleasure than as an open gloat, at least until we land another flag... :?:

I would love to have a more recent big finals win of note to top 99, so I have something new to watch over and over, at least in the absence of those heady days where we didn't need to watch replays because the next flag was just around the corner...sigh... (Where's the emoticon for 'sigh'?)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:16 am 
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formerly BlueRob
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Getting ready for 2016.

Just watched the last 15 mins of 1999 Prelim. Was waiting for the famous ... 'Arise Sir Lancelot' when Whitnall kicked that 50m goal in the dying minutes ... then I realised it was Tim Lane on ABC Radio. What a moment.

I am getting old ... just want to see us at the top again.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:45 am 
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Rod McGregor
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grrofunger wrote:
I won a junior national championship gold medal in 1999

geeez it doesn't feel like 15 years ago



Fapping is not a national sport.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:58 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Look I take full responsibility.

At the end of 1999 I agreed to move into a house in Ivanhoe - a Collingwood house bought and built by money from Collingwood (the suburb and the team).

A Bluebagger should have known better.

But

Things should now change.

I have left that house.

I am in Coburg, I catch the number 1 tram - last time I did that was in 93 - 97 - good years


before that I did it during the 80's 80 to 87 - good years


So I figure - give it a year or two

then flags cos I ain't moving

flags flags flags flags

after all

its all about me.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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BigBlueWave wrote:
Getting ready for 2016.

Just watched the last 15 mins of 1999 Prelim. Was waiting for the famous ... 'Arise Sir Lancelot' when Whitnall kicked that 50m goal in the dying minutes ... then I realised it was Tim Lane on ABC Radio. What a moment.

I am getting old ... just want to see us at the top again.


Have you got a spy camera in my bedroom?

You should've told me. I only last from Brown's tackle to....Ratten's pass to Murphy

By the time Murphy throws the ball up, I'm churning out all those zzzzzzzzzz's

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:31 pm 
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Garry Crane
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I remember being bitterly disappointed when we lost 99 Grand Final, but it also felt we'd be easily within reach of another one in the forseeable future.
:screwy:
the 99 GF was a tough match to watch. I remember McKernan bombing goals from outside 50m and us missing a plentiful set shots when the game was in the balance.


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