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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:09 pm
Posts: 865
GreatEx wrote:
That Collingwood figure is interesting given that the narrative in GF week was "isn't it amazing how well they've done given their injuries".

In our case weren't guys out of the team due to form moreso than injury?

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:06 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Melbourne
Fasolo in there twice - now you can add Kennedy back in as I think he will be :)



ianh wrote:
Just had a crack at a firsts and reserves 22 post draft. FWIW I get

Carlton

SIMPSON JONES MARCHBANK
NEWMAN WEITERING DOCHERTY
WILLIAMSON SETTERFIELD MURPHY
FISHER C CURNOW FASOLO
McKAY McGOVERN DOW
KRUESER CRIPPS WALSH
E CURNOW FASOLO PETREVSKI-SETON PLOWMAN
Emerg: MacREADIE PHILLIPS J SILVAGNI THOMAS


Northern (using rookies as interchange)

CUNINGHAM MacREADIE B SILVAGNI
PICKETT KERR SCHUMACHER
LANG KENNEDY O'BRIEN
O'DWYER CASBOULT THOMAS
PHILLIPS DE KONING GARLETT
LOBBE STOCKER POULSON
BUGG GODDARD LEBOIS OWIES


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 14384
Location: The Vodka Train
Simpson Jones Plowman
Marchbank Weitering Docherty
Fisher E.Curnow SPS
McGovern C.Curnow Lang
Fasolo McKay Murphy

Kreuzer Cripps Kennedy


Dow Setterfield LOB Walsh/Stocker



..I'd rest Kreuzer on the bench and switch Cripps to FF when McKay rucks..

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:14 am 
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Serge Silvagni
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Posts: 920
Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
Simpson Jones Plowman
Marchbank Weitering Docherty
Fisher E.Curnow SPS
McGovern C.Curnow Lang
Fasolo McKay Murphy

Kreuzer Cripps Kennedy


Dow Setterfield LOB Walsh/Stocker



..I'd rest Kreuzer on the bench and switch Cripps to FF when McKay rucks..



IMHO, Newman and Bugg will play rd 1 our early 6 or 7 games are very tough for a young team and we don’t need a string of early losses, the pressure will be on Bolton immediately for a couple of early wins.
Patience is running lower .

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 Post subject: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:53 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Location: riding shotgun on Agros Karma Train
I'd have Cunningham in our best 22

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:18 am 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:45 pm
Posts: 219
I see Cunningham fighting it out for Lang's position at half forward.. at the very least it keeps Lang honest...


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 13112
Lang would want a good pre-season to be in our best 22 IMHO.
As for Bugg, I'll be interested to see what role they have in mind for him. Personally, I think his only chance to make our team is as a small defender.
Fasolo and one of Pickett or Garlett, combined with our resting mids will occupy our peripheral forward roles.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 2575
Our oldest team (which includes a bunch of 21 year-olds):

B: Simpson - Jones - Plowman
HB: Docherty - Marchbank - Newman
C: Murphy - E. Curnow - Garlett
HF: Lang - Casboult - Fasolo
FF: McGovern - C. Curnow - Pickett

R: Kreuzer - Cripps - Thomas

INT: Lobbe - Bugg - Goddard - Phillips

Our youngest team:

B: Williamson - Weitering - J. Silvagni
HB: O'Brien - McCreadie - Schumacher
C: Stocker - Dow - Walsh
HF: SPS - McKay - C. Curnow
FF: Polson - Kerr - Cunningham

R: De Koning - Setterfield - Kennedy

INT: O'Dwyer - LeBois - Owies - B. Silvagni


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1446
bmaurizio wrote:
Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
Simpson Jones Plowman
Marchbank Weitering Docherty
Fisher E.Curnow SPS
McGovern C.Curnow Lang
Fasolo McKay Murphy

Kreuzer Cripps Kennedy


Dow Setterfield LOB Walsh/Stocker



..I'd rest Kreuzer on the bench and switch Cripps to FF when McKay rucks..



IMHO, Newman and Bugg will play rd 1 our early 6 or 7 games are very tough for a young team and we don’t need a string of early losses, the pressure will be on Bolton immediately for a couple of early wins.
Patience is running lower .


It's that type of thinking that got us where we are now.


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 11142
Location: Bondi Beach
Cazzesman wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Carlton

B. Bugg Jones Simpson
HB. Marchbank Weitering Newman
C. Murphy Cripps Williamson
HF. Fisher Charlie SPS
F. Fasolo McKay McGovern
R. Kreuzer Docherty Dow
Int. Walsh LOB Setterfield Ed

Northern Blues

B. Schumacher Goddard Plowman
HB. Thomas Macreadie Jack
C. Stocker Kennedy Garlett
HF. Pickett Casboult Lang
F. O'Dwyer Kerr TDK
R. Philips Cuningham Polson
Int Owies Ben Lebois Lobbe

Regards Cazzesman


The Plowman debate continues.
Plow was recruited at GWS with pick 3 as a tall quick mid ala Tomlison has become.

With Plowman looking to have shedded a few kg's on his return to preseason training, he becomes the tall looking after 3rd tall in forwardline, mid/ wing or depth?

Interested in your view on Plowman.


I think you almost have me at 'Check' bondi. I have been a huge Plowman fan since his TAC days and I have always thought of him as a 200 game player, and yet I can't fit him in team. :eek:

With no real FB I see Jones as out best option because of his athletic abilities, spoiling and closing speed to cover the lead. If you then have Weiters and Marchy as the 2 other tall's, there is no spot for Plow. If you take Bugg or Simmo out for Plow then I worry about our defensive leg speed.

If you have Newman, Willo and Doc all vying for the HBF role then Plow gets pushed out again. Certainly an option might be Marchbank playing more on a wing and slotting Plow into the HB role. That might make us to top heavy and slow.

Newman and Willo and hopefully Schu will put plenty of pressure on the selectors and I can't see that Plow will be a walkup start. The coach loves Thomas as well so there's another HBF/Winger.

Regards Cazzesman


Totally agree with your summation and see why he's a conundrum for me.

I see him as a walk up start. He's quicker enough to go wing, and I think Marchy can play a wing in a role that doesn't have to be a traditional style of the position.
I'm loving the versatlity Bolt's bringing into the team fabric.

Like BV Ive got Plow in for his athleticism and versatlity, his leadership and direction, and skills.
There's a spot in there if you want him, but I see how easy it is to leave him out in a Carlton team with no injuries.

Jones for now, and form will dictate that, then there's the rising star of Macreadie. He bumps out Plowman too.

Plowman is in my best 22 ... for now ... versatlity along with skill is my go to profile at the moment.

May th best man win.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 11142
Location: Bondi Beach
ianh wrote:
Just had a crack at a firsts and reserves 22 post draft. FWIW I get

Carlton

SIMPSON JONES MARCHBANK
NEWMAN WEITERING DOCHERTY
WILLIAMSON SETTERFIELD MURPHY
FISHER C CURNOW FASOLO
McKAY McGOVERN DOW
KRUESER CRIPPS WALSH
E CURNOW FASOLO PETREVSKI-SETON PLOWMAN
Emerg: MacREADIE PHILLIPS J SILVAGNI THOMAS


Northern (using rookies as interchange)

CUNINGHAM MacREADIE B SILVAGNI
PICKETT KERR SCHUMACHER
LANG KENNEDY O'BRIEN
O'DWYER CASBOULT THOMAS
PHILLIPS DE KONING GARLETT
LOBBE STOCKER POULSON
BUGG GODDARD LEBOIS OWIES


Looking at those teams, and i think mines the same or close.
Its obvious come round 1 the kids will have done another preseason: some their 3rd, 4th, 5th.
Apart from the latest influx there's not many kids left: maybe all 2nd year players barring Dow.

I look at your teams and see a lot more experience and perhaps perceived experience given its a young list in comparison.

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 Post subject: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 3433
So Bugg can play Round 1?? No injury /rookie upgrade required?



Go Blues

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 11142
Location: Bondi Beach
bmaurizio wrote:
Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
Simpson Jones Plowman
Marchbank Weitering Docherty
Fisher E.Curnow SPS
McGovern C.Curnow Lang
Fasolo McKay Murphy

Kreuzer Cripps Kennedy


Dow Setterfield LOB Walsh/Stocker



..I'd rest Kreuzer on the bench and switch Cripps to FF when McKay rucks..



IMHO, Newman and Bugg will play rd 1 our early 6 or 7 games are very tough for a young team and we don’t need a string of early losses, the pressure will be on Bolton immediately for a couple of early wins.
Patience is running lower .


I am swayed by the thought.
Sound idea.

They would take Williamsons and maybe SPS'
We'd be screaming Blue murder if we didn't play the kids.
Williamson and SPS are big boys but Newman and Bugg are bigger.
Another Conundrum.

I love an injury free list.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:00 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:05 pm
Posts: 4207
Location: St Helens
Simpson Jones Marchbank
Docherty Weitering Williamson
LOB Cripps Murphy
SPS Curnow Fisher
Bugg McKay McGovern
Kreuzer Curnow Dow
Kennedy Walsh Thomas Newman

Happy for Stocker and Setterfield to get some development time in the VFL for a while. Really need a few of Garlett, Cuningham, Polson, Pickett, JSOS to have Ed Langdon type breakout years.


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:09 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1169
I don’t see Jones in our best team.
I think he was a revelation in his second coming individually. But our defensive structures have not performed as well since soon after he joined our backline.
And FWIW, Weitering was drafted as a future gun FB. We should play him there.
Also, I’d hope that before long, Setterfield, Williamson, Newman and Cunningham push their way in but at the moment Setterfield probably still has a way to go to fully recover from his knee and then get to his best; ditto with Williamson so we simply cannot be sure that they will just begin the year at their best.
Cunningham has shown glimpses but I am yet to be convinced.
And on the flip side, by the end of the year, I’d expect Simpson, Thomas to have been overtaken.
And LOB, SPS, JSOS & Fasolo will have to have lifted their output/consistency to maintain/consolidate their positions.


B: Simpson Weitering LOB
HB: Plowman Marchbank Docherty
C: Fisher Kennedy Walsh
HF: Murphy McGovern C.Curnow
F: SPS McKay Fasolo
R: Kruezer Cripps Dow
IC: E.Curnow Thomas Stocker J.Silvagni
Next in line: Setterfield, Newman, Lang, Williamson, Macreadie, Cunningham


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:36 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: melbourne
ATM,

Simpson Weitering Plowman
Newman Marchbank Docherty
Williamson Cripps Setterfield
Murphy Charlie Walsh
SPS McGovern Fisher
Kreuzer Dow Kennedy

From; LOB McKay Stocker Ed

Maybe; Pickett Fasolo Jack
Thomas probably comes in unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1446
Pickett Jones Williamson
Simpson Weitering Docherty
SPS Cripps Fisher
Walsh Curnow McGovern
Polson McKay Cuningham
Kruezer E.Curnow Murphy

Dow Kennedy Setterfield Marchbank

Pickett needs to be trialed as a small defender, same could be said of Cuningham, he seems to be a bit better fwd atm though.
People putting Newman and Fasolo in are confusing depth players with best 22, only injuries/ stellar form at NB's should get them in.

Bugg to come in when we suspect fireworks, license to put arseholes like D.Howe in hospital when they target our kids.
5 talls on the ground mostly. 6 all up with Marchbank on the bench.

Stocker to come in if Walsh needs a spell, both playing outside mid starting from hff when they play, outside the contest.

This team can run, and this team can win.... Provided they take that tempo bull$### and shove it up their arse, there is a time and a place for slow play and it isn't 50-70% of the god damn game.
Establish 3-4 set plays for a forced slow play situation i.e Screens- groupings, that's all you need. One short sideways kick to give time to set it up. Need to be able to execute in 15 seconds


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:12 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
17th Premiership wrote:
I don’t see Jones in our best team.
I think he was a revelation in his second coming individually. But our defensive structures have not performed as well since soon after he joined our backline.
And FWIW, Weitering was drafted as a future gun FB. We should play him there.
Also, I’d hope that before long, Setterfield, Williamson, Newman and Cunningham push their way in but at the moment Setterfield probably still has a way to go to fully recover from his knee and then get to his best; ditto with Williamson so we simply cannot be sure that they will just begin the year at their best.
Cunningham has shown glimpses but I am yet to be convinced.
And on the flip side, by the end of the year, I’d expect Simpson, Thomas to have been overtaken.
And LOB, SPS, JSOS & Fasolo will have to have lifted their output/consistency to maintain/consolidate their positions.


B: Simpson Weitering LOB
HB: Plowman Marchbank Docherty
C: Fisher Kennedy Walsh
HF: Murphy McGovern C.Curnow
F: SPS McKay Fasolo
R: Kruezer Cripps Dow
IC: E.Curnow Thomas Stocker J.Silvagni
Next in line: Setterfield, Newman, Lang, Williamson, Macreadie, Cunningham


Jones is an interesting one.
last year he and the rest of the players who played down back and there were about fifteen of them never had a chance to consolidate a defensive structure because I don't think we had one full game with the ideal back six together for the entire year. They were playing pinball down there. During all that, Jones managed to get a few bags kicked on him as well as stop some of the big boys from kicking too many and in the process was one of the highest defensive half contested marks in the comp. I am not sure we can leave him out based on last year. They all had pretty ordinary years, including Marchbanks and Weitering who should both improve if we can avoid a big turnover of players in the back six.
The other issue that Jones and the others had was that we were getting belted through the middle of the ground most weeks as teams ran us ragged, attacking in lines from half back. When the mids are giving their forwards silver service or are spreading the defence by running through the F50 straight at the goals while their forwards make space for them, the backs have to decide whether or not to leave their man and just attack the ball player. That inevitably leads to an easy over the top goal or a mistake. I can't remember a time when we were so easily scored against from close in. One game I think we had seven or eight goals kicked against us from inside the ten yard square.
I think Jones is still our best option and will judge him after he has had a chance to play in a stable back six. If he can't cut it then, fine but I think it's too early to cut him for Weitering just yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:21 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 11142
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
I don’t see Jones in our best team.
I think he was a revelation in his second coming individually. But our defensive structures have not performed as well since soon after he joined our backline.
And FWIW, Weitering was drafted as a future gun FB. We should play him there.
Also, I’d hope that before long, Setterfield, Williamson, Newman and Cunningham push their way in but at the moment Setterfield probably still has a way to go to fully recover from his knee and then get to his best; ditto with Williamson so we simply cannot be sure that they will just begin the year at their best.
Cunningham has shown glimpses but I am yet to be convinced.
And on the flip side, by the end of the year, I’d expect Simpson, Thomas to have been overtaken.
And LOB, SPS, JSOS & Fasolo will have to have lifted their output/consistency to maintain/consolidate their positions.


B: Simpson Weitering LOB
HB: Plowman Marchbank Docherty
C: Fisher Kennedy Walsh
HF: Murphy McGovern C.Curnow
F: SPS McKay Fasolo
R: Kruezer Cripps Dow
IC: E.Curnow Thomas Stocker J.Silvagni
Next in line: Setterfield, Newman, Lang, Williamson, Macreadie, Cunningham


Jones is an interesting one.
last year he and the rest of the players who played down back and there were about fifteen of them never had a chance to consolidate a defensive structure because I don't think we had one full game with the ideal back six together for the entire year. They were playing pinball down there. During all that, Jones managed to get a few bags kicked on him as well as stop some of the big boys from kicking too many and in the process was one of the highest defensive half contested marks in the comp. I am not sure we can leave him out based on last year. They all had pretty ordinary years, including Marchbanks and Weitering who should both improve if we can avoid a big turnover of players in the back six.
The other issue that Jones and the others had was that we were getting belted through the middle of the ground most weeks as teams ran us ragged, attacking in lines from half back. When the mids are giving their forwards silver service or are spreading the defence by running through the F50 straight at the goals while their forwards make space for them, the backs have to decide whether or not to leave their man and just attack the ball player. That inevitably leads to an easy over the top goal or a mistake. I can't remember a time when we were so easily scored against from close in. One game I think we had seven or eight goals kicked against us from inside the ten yard square.
I think Jones is still our best option and will judge him after he has had a chance to play in a stable back six. If he can't cut it then, fine but I think it's too early to cut him for Weitering just yet.


Measured response.

Good summary of 2018...pinball and that game with goals from opposition on their own in the goal square.
We just couldn't keep up with half conditioned kids doing a limited 1st year preseason or disrupted preseason.
Cometh the man Mr Russell. Make them men Andrew. :fight:

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 Post subject: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:51 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1169
Good discussion.
Interesting that there is such a wide range of views of our best 22.
And for the first time in a long time, I felt like I was leaving good players out rather than struggling to find good players to include.
Will be fun to watch bolts & co work it all out over the season (hopefully sooner rather than later).


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