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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:15 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Donstuie wrote:
I just noticed something interesting on our list when going back to my 22 to see if I'd change anything.

Look at all the left-footers we have now.

Quote:
Seniors
B___Plowman___Weitering___Simpson
HB___Docherty___Marchbank___Newman
C___SPS___Cripps___Williamson
HF___Murphy___C.Curnow___LOB
F___Fasolo___McKay___McGovern
Foll___Kreuz___Dow___Fisher
Int___Kennedy___Walsh___Pickett___E.Curnow

Northern Blues
B___Lamb___Jones___Blakey
HB___Thomas___Macreadie___Schumacher
C___W.Hickmott___Setterfield___Garlett
HF___Cuningham___Casboult___Lang
F___Palmer___Kerr___JSOS
Foll___Lobbe___Fisher___Polson
Int___Philips___BSOS___Penrith___Lebois

Maybe we are becoming the new Hawthorn?


When we got Bolton as coach, the Hawthorn features we thought may be replicated at Carlton from the Hawthorn model in our recruiting was:

Skilled players by hand and foot, Left footers, Unsociable footy, Highly Competitive.

I think you've singled out one there Don...interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:37 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
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Yeah that Hawthorn model was a good one..........worked 5 years ago...not so much now.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:29 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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smithy wrote:
Yeah that Hawthorn model was a good one..........worked 5 years ago...not so much now.


That's because they gave up on that when they stopped rebuilding and have gone for ready made stars.

They aren't that far off the pace. Don't know why. Maybe Mitchell and Lewis were amazing once in a generation mids made for GF's.
Maybe they've held onto and depended on an ageing Roughead to long. Who cares about them anymore anyway? Not me.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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bondiblue wrote:
smithy wrote:
Yeah that Hawthorn model was a good one..........worked 5 years ago...not so much now.


That's because they gave up on that when they stopped rebuilding and have gone for ready made stars.

They aren't that far off the pace. Don't know why. Maybe Mitchell and Lewis were amazing once in a generation mids made for GF's.
Maybe they've held onto and depended on an ageing Roughead to long. Who cares about them anymore anyway? Not me.
Hawthorn gave up on the draft because the landscape changed.
The AFL made it easier to get established proven players and they have taken advantage of it.
Carlton however are following the Hawks model of 10 plus years ago by the time we wake up the AFL will have changed the rules again

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:03 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 20967
Location: Missing Kouta
Blue Sombrero wrote:
ianh wrote:
Kouta wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
Kouta wrote:
List balance looks far better if Kennedy, Cripps and Setterfield can get their hands dirty to win the hard ball and feed it out to Dow, Walsh and Fisher.


And SPS. Hoping we can see a bit more flair from him next season.

We need a young ruck so we can play the kids...

B: Plowman Weitering Williamson
HB: Docherty Marchbank O’Brien
C: Fisher Kennedy Petrevski-Seton
HF: Polson Curnow Pickett
F: McGovern McKay Silvagni
R: De Koning Cripps Dow

I: Macreadie Setterfield Walsh Cuningham

E: Graham Schumacher Lang Garlett Kerr

I give SOS a tick for bringing in youth.


You'd destroy TDK and probably McKay too. Need at least one mature body in the ruck - Kreuzer/Lobbe at a pinch Phillips and unless you are confident that one will play nearly 100% game time leaving only minimal chop out for the back-up ruck then perhaps one of Jones/Rowe/Casboult to do the relief ruck - all of them can contribute when not in the ruck and better ruck options than McKay/TDK at their current stage of physical development.

If the game is going to be as open and fast as the AFL (Hocking) is touting, Kreuzer won't cut it. Jones, on the other hand, is bloody fast, has an enormous spring and best of all, has a huge tank.
He's my new first pick as backup ruck or maybe even #1 ruck if he turns out OK.
Time for him to re-re-invent himself.

Why will the rules work against Kreuzer?

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/08/15/ ... has-faced/
Quote:
“Matthew Kreuzer is probably the one that I rate the highest.

“His work rate, he keeps you very honest and he’s added this part to his game where he can mark and kick goals, which as a ruckman, seems to be one that you’re most scared of when they go and impact the scoreboard.”

Walls will tell Bolton to give him a run in the ruck.


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:31 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
bondiblue wrote:
smithy wrote:
Yeah that Hawthorn model was a good one..........worked 5 years ago...not so much now.


That's because they gave up on that when they stopped rebuilding and have gone for ready made stars.

They aren't that far off the pace. Don't know why. Maybe Mitchell and Lewis were amazing once in a generation mids made for GF's.
Maybe they've held onto and depended on an ageing Roughead to long. Who cares about them anymore anyway? Not me.


Yeah I reckon they and the media are kidding themselves, top 4 team lol, the media like to trot it out. The only thing that made them top 4 or top 8 even was a ridiculously easy draw.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:18 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Sydney Blue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
smithy wrote:
Yeah that Hawthorn model was a good one..........worked 5 years ago...not so much now.


That's because they gave up on that when they stopped rebuilding and have gone for ready made stars.

They aren't that far off the pace. Don't know why. Maybe Mitchell and Lewis were amazing once in a generation mids made for GF's.
Maybe they've held onto and depended on an ageing Roughead to long. Who cares about them anymore anyway? Not me.
Hawthorn gave up on the draft because the landscape changed.
The AFL made it easier to get established proven players and they have taken advantage of it.
Carlton however are following the Hawks model of 10 plus years ago by the time we wake up the AFL will have changed the rules again

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


You're forgeting one part, and that is they started with the draft after nearly merging with the Dees.

You have to have a foundation of good young players which is what the Hawks did, as we have done.
Then after that came the foreign legion.

The landscape is the same for us moving forward. We didnt want to trade pick 1 for Shiel: that's all.

What makes you think we wont take advantage of the FA rules, let alone carlton becoming a destination club with all that high end youth on our list?

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:21 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
smithy wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
smithy wrote:
Yeah that Hawthorn model was a good one..........worked 5 years ago...not so much now.


That's because they gave up on that when they stopped rebuilding and have gone for ready made stars.

They aren't that far off the pace. Don't know why. Maybe Mitchell and Lewis were amazing once in a generation mids made for GF's.
Maybe they've held onto and depended on an ageing Roughead to long. Who cares about them anymore anyway? Not me.


Yeah I reckon they and the media are kidding themselves, top 4 team lol, the media like to trot it out. The only thing that made them top 4 or top 8 even was a ridiculously easy draw.


Good point Smithy.

I hope the Hawks fall, along with the Cats, and then every other team in Black n White, or has a Scott as a coach or up themselves Tigers. Then there's Adelaide who I hope we pass this year (not likely but...)

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Interesting given our lack of run of HB last year that we essentially come into 2019 with 3 "new recruits" in this area.


https://twitter.com/CarltonFC/status/10 ... 2126831616

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:03 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
Sydney Blue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
smithy wrote:
Yeah that Hawthorn model was a good one..........worked 5 years ago...not so much now.


That's because they gave up on that when they stopped rebuilding and have gone for ready made stars.

They aren't that far off the pace. Don't know why. Maybe Mitchell and Lewis were amazing once in a generation mids made for GF's.
Maybe they've held onto and depended on an ageing Roughead to long. Who cares about them anymore anyway? Not me.
Hawthorn gave up on the draft because the landscape changed.
The AFL made it easier to get established proven players and they have taken advantage of it.
Carlton however are following the Hawks model of 10 plus years ago by the time we wake up the AFL will have changed the rules again

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Hawthorn have fallen into the trap of believing that trading in mercenaries will win the premiership whilst moving out their club legends before they were ready to quit.

This years trade of Wingard and dumping of burton is the clearest example that they have abandoned the draft completely

Only time will tell if they are ahead of the curve or misjudged the value of developing a list through drafting.


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:17 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Interesting how Mitch McGovern talked about the prospect of him maybe playing as a 3rd tall OR as the small at the feet of Charlie and Big H.

I thought about it, the checked some highlight packages of him and he is good on his feet, turns well, didn't strike me as an Eddie Betts, but can see him playing as a mobile Forward tall, medium or small.

He also made mention how "Setters, Newman, and Solo" (Fasolo), add maturity to a list which was decimated by injury last year, and are reason why we will rise up the ladder. Sounds like Solo is making a good impression at Carlton. We know he has kicked plenty of goals, has a hardened AFL body, can take a mark and knows where to go on an AFL forwardline.

He is pumped and has genuine belief our current list will rise quickly up the ladder.

McGovern as the small we all crave. IMO, probably not the small but he will be mobile as is Charlie, Harry, Solo and Setters....I think there's still a spot for a small, and it may be one of the rotating midfielders Murphy, SPS, Dow, Pickett, Fisher, maybe Lang....plenty of choice really with added depth to the midfield group. I just don't think its going to be LeBois or Polson in 2019.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:58 pm
Posts: 1636
bondiblue wrote:
Interesting how Mitch McGovern talked about the prospect of him maybe playing as a 3rd tall OR as the small at the feet of Charlie and Big H.

I thought about it, the checked some highlight packages of him and he is good on his feet, turns well, didn't strike me as an Eddie Betts, but can see him playing as a mobile Forward tall, medium or small.

He also made mention how "Setters, Newman, and Solo" (Fasolo), add maturity to a list which was decimated by injury last year, and are reason why we will rise up the ladder. Sounds like Solo is making a good impression at Carlton. We know he has kicked plenty of goals, has a hardened AFL body, can take a mark and knows where to go on an AFL forwardline.

He is pumped and has genuine belief our current list will rise quickly up the ladder.

McGovern as the small we all crave. IMO, probably not the small but he will be mobile as is Charlie, Harry, Solo and Setters....I think there's still a spot for a small, and it may be one of the rotating midfielders Murphy, SPS, Dow, Pickett, Fisher, maybe Lang....plenty of choice really with added depth to the midfield group. I just don't think its going to be LeBois or Polson in 2019.


Yeah he is agile and very quick, I wouldn't mind seeing him doing stints up the ground 60/40 swapping that outlet role with Curnow and spending some time in midfield.

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Obviously injury means there's never a consistent best 22 playing, more like a best 22 of who's available. But it's one area we need to get on top of to improve our chances.

I added up, across the league, every player who's played ten or more games in a row as of the end of the 2018 season. Made for some interesting reading:

Collingwood 474
North 472
Geelong 417
Melbourne 410
Port 374
Essendon* 342
West Coast 331
Hawthorn 331
-------------------
Sydney 300
GWS 286
Brisbane 274
St Kilda 268
Richmond 261
Gold Coast 233
Adelaide 216
Bulldogs 164
Fremantle 121
Carlton 88

Our 88 are made up of just 5 players:
Petrevski-Seton 30
Cripps 22
Curnows both 13
Polson 10

GWS, Sydney and Richmond have overachieved. Port, North and Essendon* have underachieved. You'd think those three are a couple of injuries away from collapsing.


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
But, but, but...."Collingwood have been decimated by injuries" :lol:

Spot on Verbs. And if you delve a little deeper, the quality of player makes interesting reading as well.

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 Post subject: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Nah injuries weren’t a factor in our shit season :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:32 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 7778
verbs wrote:
Obviously injury means there's never a consistent best 22 playing, more like a best 22 of who's available. But it's one area we need to get on top of to improve our chances.

I added up, across the league, every player who's played ten or more games in a row as of the end of the 2018 season. Made for some interesting reading:

Collingwood 474
North 472
Geelong 417
Melbourne 410
Port 374
Essendon** 342
West Coast 331
Hawthorn 331
-------------------
Sydney 300
GWS 286
Brisbane 274
St Kilda 268
Richmond 261
Gold Coast 233
Adelaide 216
Bulldogs 164
Fremantle 121
Carlton 88

Our 88 are made up of just 5 players:
Petrevski-Seton 30
Cripps 22
Curnows both 13
Polson 10

GWS, Sydney and Richmond have overachieved. Port, North and Essendon** have underachieved. You'd think those three are a couple of injuries away from collapsing.


Very interesting post. :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Carlton

B. Jones Weitering Simpson
HB. Docherty Marchbank Newman
C. LOB Fisher Walsh
HF. Murphy Charlie SPS
F. Fasolo McKay McGovern
R. Kreuzer Cripps Dow
Int. Kennedy WilliamsonEd TDK

Northern Blues

B. Schumacher Goddard Plowman
HB. Thomas Macreadie Cuningham
C. Stocker Setterfield Garlett
HF. Pickett Casboult Lang
F. O'Dwyer Kerr Jack
R. Philips Bugg Polson
Int Owies Ben Lebois Lobbe


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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I think we are missing a mongrel FB but we can make do for now.

I Prefer Weitering and Marchbank up around CHB where Weits kicking can set us up closer to F50 and Marchbank can intercept mark outside D50.

I would be leaving Jones at FB to do the spoiling, grunt work. His athletic ability makes him more than capable and he has only one job to do..........spoil his man and bring it to ground.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Carlton

B. Bugg Jones Simpson
HB. Marchbank Weitering Newman
C. Murphy Cripps Williamson
HF. Fisher Charlie SPS
F. Fasolo McKay McGovern
R. Kreuzer Docherty Dow
Int. Walsh LOB Setterfield Ed

Northern Blues

B. Schumacher Goddard Plowman
HB. Thomas Macreadie Jack
C. Stocker Kennedy Garlett
HF. Pickett Casboult Lang
F. O'Dwyer Kerr TDK
R. Philips Cuningham Polson
Int Owies Ben Lebois Lobbe

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject: Re: Our best 22?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:04 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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I hope Pickett can break into the ones. If he gets it together I think he has more upside than Bugg, Newman, Fasolo. But I agree that he is not there yet.


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