We have absolutely slaughtered in the ruck the past few weeks. Really slaughtered. Clokes playing very well, just a little short for number one ruckman. Kreuz is 18 and not really competitive enough in the hit outs yet, as you would expect.

I think we really need work at Hammer being our number one ruckman for the time being. He has an unbelievable amount of potential. His big leap should get him to more taps, and being that bit older than Kreuz he is obviously a little further down the track in terms of development. Kreuz is definetly better at ground level, but think Hampson will be awesome back in the side cos he can also provide a very dangerous option resting up forward. We saw how good he is overhead in a few games last year.

Either way our ruck division as it stands needs to be looked at. We will go up another level if we can become at least competitive in the hit outs

Well obviously you can't have Hampson, Cloke & Kruezer in, so who do you drop?

Getting games into Kruezer is vital, would love to see more of Hampson too as he is going to be a great ruckmen, and we probably need Cloke as a forward for when Fevola gets suspended. Hard decisions, hard decisions ... does anybody know of Hampsons form in the Ants?

Why not?
Kreuzer can play FF while Fev is suspended or CHF. Cloke can play KP back or fwd although I think he is doing well on the ball, apart from the hitouts dept.
We need a tap ruckman and soon. It looks like it has to be Hampson. He lacks a bit around the ground but we might have to put up with that for a while just to get our hands on the ball first.

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Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

I'll be looking for this thread to be bumped in a couple of years time...

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There's so much I could say...

It could be time
































































to bring back the Hack

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Cox is the best in the business. Don't be too critical when our short ruckmen and the other a very inexperienced ruckmen cannot beat the best ruckmen in the league. Cox was awesome the other night.

It could be worse, if you watched Hawthorn blow away Collingwood yesterday, Collingwood's rucks are very average.

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Delulio is a member of TISM

Cox smashed us with an injured foot

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Lawrence Lawrence, The man who knows all the rackets and all the racketeers!

I imagine we would have won 5 or 6 games this year already if we had a ruckman

This is a dilema.

Cloke has done nothing to deserve being dropped, yet is too short and not athletic enough to get effective hitouts against opposition rucks.

Kruezer is going to be a champ, but at the moment is too light on in the muscle dept. However his around the ground work show heaps of promise already.

Hampson is an athletic freak who can get first hands to the ball but is not as effective around the ground as Cloke and Kruzer.

Throw in Jacobs who I know little about but by some reports offers the bulk to go against the big opposition bodies but struggles to get around the ground.

So what do we do? We need to win more hitouts than we are now.

Option 1 - Cloke and Kruezer - Continue sacrificing hitouts for around ground agility while getting games into Kruzer.

Option 2 - Cloke and Hampson - Gives Kruzer a rest, but is there anything for him to gain in the Ants? Hampson gives us a genuine chance to win the hitout but can get caught out around the ground. Does Kruezer go to the forward line? I think we may be too tall then, and playing FF does not allow Kruze to use his biggest asset, his tank. CHF maybe? Kruze CHF, Fev FF with Fish playing the flank/pocket.

Option 3 - Kruzer and Hampson - This is the one we'd like to see but I think it may be too early. What do we do with Cloke? If he goes to CHF are we too top heavy for todays game.

I wouldn't expect to see Jacobs in unless Cloke gets injured (touch wood) as they sound like similar players. There is also Zachy and Ackland but I can't see them in the mix at the moment.

It will be interesting to see what the MC do on the ruck issue.

Hopefully hampson plays against the Lions regardless of Fev being in and out.
Brisbane are strong in the ruck.

Cant see why Cloke cant play as a permanent CHF judging on his play this year.

A three way rotation with kreuzer involved is possible.

This is crucial at the dome because its a shorter ground that Subi



Bring in the Hampster.

He is too slow and will be expolited as soon as the ball hits the ground.

We are talking about taps here, not around the ground presence.

So there's 2 areas where our rucks compete for taps: centre bounces where 2 rucks run and jump at each other; and, around the ground (including throw ins) where 2 ruckmen compete body against body (with a 3rd man up sometimes).

You watch our rucks at 199 and 196cm (Cloke and Kreuzer) against other ruckmen at 200-203 cm and there's not much difference in height. In fact against Simmonds of the Tiggers at 196cm you'd expect us to have an advantage or break even.

So why are we not winning or breaking even, or at the very least nullifying the ruck role?

The one thing that stands out like dogs balls is reach. But how is that when there isn't much difference in height?

IMO it's 4 things:

1. Inches: the game's advantages comes down to inches.

2. Experience: Against Cox you could see how he positioned his body to give him space for either of his hands to tap to advantage.

3. Strength: Whilst Cloke has used his strength to win may of his taps, Kruezer excusably is only 18 and strength will come from another 2 preseasons plus some.

4. Spring: this to me has the most obvious disadvantage we have for our rucks. Cloke hasn't the spring to make up the shortfall in height, and Kruezer doesn't have as much spring as have the ruckmen he's been competing with. He's been good at ground level.

I don't believe Kreuzer will improve too much in this area (vertical or running leap), and Cloke isn't going to at all.

IMO it's Hampson who has the obvious the obvious spring to compete in the middle and Kreuzer and Cloke around the ground. Do you remember the bath Hammer gave Saandilands (210 cm) in the NAB Cup? Hammer will increase his strength over the next 2 or 3 preseasons, so till he does we can't expect him to dominate in the body to body clashes. He has shown over the last preseason he can put on a bit of muscle pretty quickly though.Hopefully it doesn't effect his leap too much.

But it's the centre clearances that are the killers imo.

This is why I believe of the current crop of rucks we have (unless we find a beauty over the trade period) it's Hammer and Aisake we have to develop jumping techniques in the ruck for us to have a show in the middle where it counts most. Perhaps Kreuzer can be a FP and Cloke a CHF (or vice versa); if not Cloke may miss.

Around the ground, Hammer and Aisake need to improve their skills; both are new to the game of Aussie Rules. But one thing they have is fantastic pace, good below the knees and a weapon or two in terms of their disposal (one at passing, the other at goal).

We must develop these 2 this year (being a development year) this year and the next. I suggest Aisake is given a taste of senior footy, with specific small roles to start with. That taste did wonders for Hammer last year when it was Aisake who was going to be given that role, only to have his body fail on him with OP.

Small steps, and we'll get there. Until we do get there (and that is to at least nullify the opposition with taps in the middle), we will struggle with Cloke and Kreuzer competing in that area.

Most of us realise how important the ruck position is. You just have to look at the advantage Sam Mitchell, Hodge etc were given with their ruckmen dominating taps in the middle against The Pies (and in fact all of 2008). You can't have too many rucks on call; do that at your peril because rucks will get injured during the season.

We need to either find a beauty or elevate the improving strongman Jacobs at season's end. That'll give us Hampson, Aisake, Kreuzer and Jacobs as the only genuine 200cm ruckmen on our list; the problem with expectation is crucial if supporter sanity is to remain intact, as they're all young and learning the game.

In fact, none of them are bona fide AFL ruckmen yet. It's going to take 2-3 years for these ruckmen to really emerge. Hopefully 2 (in season 2010).

Patience bluebaggers.

We're the youngest list and still developing (starting from ground zero). Learn to live with this disadvantage this year, and hope to see these kids develop during this season. It aint going to be solved in 2008. Big deal, we're not playing for a flag this year. It's all about our road to the 17th, 18th...flags.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

I have high hoped for Jacobs, a great tap ruckman who looked to have improved his around the ground work considerably in the short burts he over pre-season. Was a pity he was injured early this year as from reports he was in fine form.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

yea its so frustrating to see the opposition constantly smash it forward or inside 50. cloke's performances around the ground are absolutely sensational, but his rucking could do with a little improvement....kreuzer will obvs get better as well. we need hampson back in the team, is he injured?

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"You don’t get much more Navy Blue than Stephen Kernahan" - Marc Murphy

Development year.

Losing ruck contests is frustrating but not the end of the world.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Nah.. We were smashed by
St Kilda 41 - 18
Melbourne 34 - 19
Adelaide 55 - 17
West Coast 44 - 19.

So don't say Cox is just too good.
Thats a HUGE stat. And we lost the hitouts in every other game as well, they were just the most significant ones. Maybe we would have beaten Saints and/or Adelaide if we had been at least competitive in the ruck?? So something HAS to be done!!

I think Hampson, Kreuzer and Cloke all in. Hampson as number 1 tap ruckman. Cloke up forward and bustin his arse to run all day, get back as an extra man in defense then bolt back up forward. Can take some ruck contests when he's near the ball if Hammers some distance away. Kreuzer to play a similar role as Cloke but with more time at the centre bounce. I would have these guys rotating on the bench as well, so often there'd only be 2 on the ground. But yeah, I think Hampson is the only one at this stage who will really win a lot of knockouts, and believe he was nearly BOG in the Ants the other day. so lets get him in there

Cant have all three in the team at the same time. Upsets the balalnce.

Maybe we can give Kroooz a week off.

The thing is our rucks are very good around the ground. Very rare is ruck who can tap well and still play like a midfielder. Cox is a freak.

So what do we do? Give up a marking and linking options around the ground for some timber in the centre square.
Would be good to put some game time into Hampson to see if he has some Coxiness about him.

Leave it the coaches i reckon. I know nothing compared to them.

True. But we do know the stats i mentioned above which are disturbing

Shouldn't he be reported for kicking then?

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

cloke CHF and rotate hammer and kruz in the ruck.