TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Houlihan and Scotland

BTW also understand that Stevens was singled out and told that if he couldn't run out the game he too would be spelled. From all reports he lifted.

I see Brad Fisher laid 0 tackles

Both are useless defensive options. Do not have any defensive skills whatsoever. Houlihan at best is an intechange forward option only because he is skilled around goals. Should never ever ever ever be played further up the ground than the Fwd pocket.

Scotland has served his purpose at the club ...filled a few holes.. etc...blah blah blah....no longer serves any required purpose..his shoes can be filled sufficiently from any of the younger kids coming through..i.e. Jackson comes to mind.

P.S. both these two are the softest players I have ever seen. The fact that they have played so many games for us over the last few seasons says much about the CFC.

I have always maintained that Heath Scotland gets a fairly rough ride here on TC for someone who has been one of our better-performed players over the last few seasons. Yes over this time we have been poor and he has his flaws but his performances in my opinion have been pretty good over a period of time. I reckon he is just out of form, and will bounce back. He is not a defender, we all know this, we won't get the most out of him in the backline as we all know accountability isn't his strong suit. It doesn't make things right but you need to look at the whole context.

Ryan Houlihan is our best user of the ball in terms of pinpointing a pass. In a team whose skills are generally average, he is needed because his skills by any standard are very good. Ask Fev who he wants running at him with the ball and I bet he says Houlihan. I do however concede that for someone with his talent he hasn't been getting involved enough in our matches so far. He needs to step up on this front.

Blues2005 wrote:

Finally someone who is making some sense.

guys, for God's Sake get off Scotland's back... Geez some fans have a short memory..

YES we all know he started this season Poorly but he is a Gun, and a top player. You cant replace guys like him when he is Switched on.

He was Clearly our best player since he came on to the Club. give him some time.. every player has bad spells....

- The insipid effort not to take out Lovett by not putting on a block which resulted in Lovett to run on and kick a goal.

Melvey wrote:

I see Brad Fisher laid 0 tackles

Given the surgery on his hand, that would be perfectly understandable.

Author:	The Vet [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Houlihan and Scotland
I understabnd that they were both advised prior to Saturdaty night that they had not laid one defensive tackle for the year, and that a failure to lift that aspect of their game would lead to a spell in the magoos. Didn't make the game - how did they go? BTW also understand that Stevens was singled out and told that if he couldn't run out the game he too would be spelled. From all reports he lifted.

Author:	Melvey [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:
thats gold gerry, gold!! one half of me is hoping houlahan didn't lay a tackle and the other half of me is praying to god that he didn't lay a tackle.

Author:	mjonc [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:
Pro-Stats do the clubs stats. http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/gam ... id=2008021 2 each, although I don't know what defines a defensive tackle

Author:	Pickle [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Houlihan and Scotland
BTW also understand that Stevens was singled out and told that if he couldn't run out the game he too would be spelled. From all reports he lifted.[/quote] Did he lift and run the game out? Had 21 uncontested of his 26 possessions.

Author:	Effes [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Houlihan and Scotland
Pickle wrote: BTW also understand that Stevens was singled out and told that if he couldn't run out the game he too would be spelled. From all reports he lifted. Did he lift and run the game out? Had 21 uncontested of his 26 possessions.[/quote] His role should be to get uncontested possessions. He was a wingman at Port Adelaide, and hopefully as our midfield develops he can spend more time on the wing.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Houlihan and Scotland http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20719	Page 1 of 3

Author:	maxyblue [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:
scotland seems like the type of player who is uncoachable. seems to have been given a job on sat and the body language suggested that he didn't like it, just seems to wanna do his own thing. over-paid figjam slacker who represents a lost opportunity to trade him last year. houlihan's ability to pin-point 3 passes a game to fev should not be some sort of benchmark for automatic senior selection. could either of these guys withstand a seriously withering peer group, leading teams style, evaluation a-la bulldogs & geelong? could either of the two, along with Ackland, stand up among their peers and say they've been honest in their endeavours? would they be believed if they did? in a team sport that's the question, can you get up in front of your peers and say that you had an honest, red-hot crack? at year's end we should ask a question of every player on the list ... will this guy be part of the next serious challenge for a flag (say 5 years time). if not, then ask a second question ... can this bloke be retained on the basis of continued contribution while meeting team-oriented benchmarks (whatever the MC decides is required to win a flag)? if the guys cops 2 strikes then he's out, irrespective of the name or reputation.

Author:	Fabulous [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:
Scotland has been very disappointing. He is playing in defense and yet plays with no Defensive pressure. This season all I have seen Scotland do is kick it short to Thornton, and then Thornton pays back the favour and kicks it back!

Author:	Melvey [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:
I see Brad Fisher laid 0 tackles

Author:	DownUnderChick [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Melvey wrote: I see Brad Fisher laid 0 tackles Given the surgery on his hand, that would be perfectly understandable.

Author:	Blues2005 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:
I have always maintained that Heath Scotland gets a fairly rough ride here on TC for someone who has been one of our better-performed players over the last few seasons. Yes over this time we have been poor and he has his flaws but his performances in my opinion have been pretty good over a period of time. I reckon he is just out of form, and will bounce back. He is not a defender, we all know this, we won't get the most out of him in the backline as we all know accountability isn't his strong suit. It doesn't make things right but you need to look at the whole context. Ryan Houlihan is our best user of the ball in terms of pinpointing a pass. In a team whose skills are generally average, he is needed because his skills by any standard are very good. Ask Fev who he wants running at him with the ball and I bet he says Houlihan. I do however concede that for someone with his talent he hasn't been getting involved enough in our matches so far. He needs to step up on this front.

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Both are useless defensive options. Do not have any defensive skills whatsoever. Houlihan at best is an intechange forward option only because he is skilled around goals. Should never ever ever ever be played further up the ground than the Fwd pocket. Scotland has served his purpose at the club ...filled a few holes.. etc...blah blah blah....no longer serves any required purpose..his shoes can be filled sufficiently from any of the younger kids coming through..i.e. Jackson comes to mind. P.S. both these two are the softest players I have ever seen. The fact that they have played so many games for us over the last few seasons says much about the CFC.

Author:	wasthesonofapreacherman [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Juddy&theKruezers wrote: Both are useless defensive options. Do not have any defensive skills whatsoever. Houlihan at best is an intechange forward option only because he is skilled around goals. Should never ever ever ever be played further up the ground than the Fwd pocket. Scotland has served his purpose at the club ...filled a few holes.. etc...blah blah blah....no longer serves any required purpose..his shoes can be filled sufficiently from any of the younger kids coming through..i.e. Jackson comes to mind. P.S. both these two are the softest players I have ever seen. The fact that they have played so many games for us over the last few seasons says much about the CFC. Sadly I agree with you 100%.

Author:	Rhys26 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:
2 reasons from Saturdays game why Heath Scotland might need to have a good think about things while playing for the bullants: - The horrible free kick he gave away at the start of the game. Weak as piss - The insipid effort not to take out Lovett by not putting on a block which resulted in Lovett to run on and kick a goal. 2 soft goals given away by a player who is supposedly a leader.

Author:	Bearzo [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Blues2005 wrote: I have always maintained that Heath Scotland gets a fairly rough ride here on TC for someone who has been one of our better-performed players over the last few seasons. Yes over this time we have been poor and he has his flaws but his performances in my opinion have been pretty good over a period of time. I reckon he is just out of form, and will bounce back. He is not a defender, we all know this, we won't get the most out of him in the backline as we all know accountability isn't his strong suit. It doesn't make things right but you need to look at the whole context. Ryan Houlihan is our best user of the ball in terms of pinpointing a pass. In a team whose skills are generally average, he is needed because his skills by any standard are very good. Ask Fev who he wants running at him with the ball and I bet he says Houlihan. I do however concede that for someone with his talent he hasn't been getting involved enough in our matches so far. He needs to step up on this front. Finally someone who is making some sense.

Page 1 of 3	All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Donstuie [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Bearzo wrote: Blues2005 wrote: I have always maintained that Heath Scotland gets a fairly rough ride here on TC for someone who has been one of our better-performed players over the last few seasons. Yes over this time we have been poor and he has his flaws but his performances in my opinion have been pretty good over a period of time. I reckon he is just out of form, and will bounce back. He is not a defender, we all know this, we won't get the most out of him in the backline as we all know accountability isn't his strong suit. It doesn't make things right but you need to look at the whole context. Ryan Houlihan is our best user of the ball in terms of pinpointing a pass. In a team whose skills are generally average, he is needed because his skills by any standard are very good. Ask Fev who he wants running at him with the ball and I bet he says Houlihan. I do however concede that for someone with his talent he hasn't been getting involved enough in our matches so far. He needs to step up on this front. Finally someone who is making some sense. Word

Author:	Dodo27 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:
guys, for God's Sake get off Scotland's back... Geez some fans have a short memory.. YES we all know he started this season Poorly but he is a Gun, and a top player. You cant replace guys like him when he is Switched on. He was Clearly our best player since he came on to the Club. give him some time.. every player has bad spells....

Author:	Kouta [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Blues2005 wrote: I have always maintained that Heath Scotland gets a fairly rough ride here on TC for someone who has been one of our better-performed players over the last few seasons. Yes over this time we have been poor and he has his flaws but his performances in my opinion have been pretty good over a period of time. I reckon he is just out of form, and will bounce back. He is not a defender, we all know this, we won't get the most out of him in the backline as we all know accountability isn't his strong suit. It doesn't make things right but you need to look at the whole context. Ryan Houlihan is our best user of the ball in terms of pinpointing a pass. In a team whose skills are generally average, he is needed because his skills by any standard are very good. Ask Fev who he wants running at him with the ball and I bet he says Houlihan. I do however concede that for someone with his talent he hasn't been getting involved enough in our matches so far. He needs to step up on this front. I'd suggest Fevola would respond with Judd, Stevens, Murphy and Gibbs. We understand the whole context, but the lack of defensive efforts outweighs their skill when their opponents create just as many goals by running off them. Being a bottom side shouldn't be used as an excuse for putting up with their lack of effort and legspeed running the other way. Both would have been dropped from any other team and told to work harder if that was the attitude they took into games. We flamed Camporeale for being a downhill skier and collecting the handball off the pack to boost his stats, yet Houlihan and Scotland are lesser and slower players who never reached his heights. Scotty used to chase when he started out at Carlton, but probably spent too much time watching and learning from Bradley who became a sweeper. We can't expect young players such as Gibbs, Murphy, etc. to chase and work hard both ways if they witness their more senior teammates not laying a tackle in a game. They're no better than Jordan McMahon or Tivendale. I agree with the comment they've filled a hole at Carlton for the past 5 seasons and need to be moved on.

Author:	Kouta [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Dodo27 wrote: guys, for God's Sake get off Scotland's back... Geez some fans have a short memory.. YES we all know he started this season Poorly but he is a Gun, and a top player. You cant replace guys like him when he is Switched on. He was Clearly our best player since he came on to the Club. give him some time.. every player has bad spells.... Stevens then Fevola.

Author:	barass [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:
Rhys26 wrote: - The insipid effort not to take out Lovett by not putting on a block which resulted in Lovett to run on and kick a goal. Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this. Blocking the path of opponents who have disposed of the ball by hand has been a real focus this year... except if you're a leader like Scotland.

Author:	bluedog [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:
DownUnderChick wrote: Melvey wrote: I see Brad Fisher laid 0 tackles Given the surgery on his hand, that would be perfectly understandable. Once on the field, you are 100% fit.