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| Watch the game again without emotion... http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20704 |
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| Author: | nytdog [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Watch the game again without emotion... |
... and you'll see that things are looking up big time. I can understand how emotional our supporters get when we lose ANOTHER game and the first thing they want to do is to jump on TC and cry and complain and criticise. Fair enough, but if you take a cool headed, less emotional look at the game, you'll see that we are moving forward and building towards a winning finals team. IMO we were the far better team on Saturday.The main reason we lost was due to the fitness issues of a couple of our key senior players (Judd, Stevens, Hadley) who will only get better as time goes on and be able to run out the game. Plus a couple of our senior players put in uncharacterstic average games (Simpson, Scotland, Hoops & probably even Thornton come to mind). So if it wasn't for some unlucky breaks (ie late goals, Fev's posters), poor umpiring decisions and lack of fitness of key players the game would have been ours. What makes me excited in watching this game is that our youth are starting to lead the way and our team struture is starting to come good. The additon of Kreuzer to the line up seemed to put so much more balance to our structure, a balance that we havent had for 7 years. Two athletic ruckman, a back up bullucking ruckman (Cloke, who btw has been outstanding this year), and a midfield group that when fit will be able to match it with the best. All the structure is missing is a couple of tight playing defensive midfielders/backman and potentially one additional key position player (hopefully Setanta). The massive positives for the game for me were: Jamison, Betts & Kreuzer - all three had outstanding games. Jamison has shown enough to suggest he is our answer at full back... no questions. Kreuzer is special and no offence to those who really pushed hard for Cotchin, but the Kreuz gives our team structure something that Cotchin could never give... A hard running big man, who is effective in the air, in the ruck contest and up forward. If that doesnt get you excited, then you're really missing something. IMO Cloke has been excellent so far this year and a real surprise to me. He isnt fast or athletic enough to hold down a key position, but as a relief ruckman forward with a high work ethic, he is valuable to our team structure. Bower is developing very nicely. I like the fact that his instinct are to move the ball on quickly which is what you want from a tall rebounding defender, plus he is becoming more effective at nullifying his oponent as he gets more games under his belt. Murph has been excellent and with Gibbs, these two are the foundations of our future. I thought Waite was great again on the weekend and he really has seemed to step up his game this year. Although I prefer him forward, he's doing the job down back which is all we can ask. Fish will come on and his marking is as strong as ever. His ground work will improve as the match fitness comes back. Stevens is 2-3 more games away from being the 4qtr gun midfielder we know he is. His execution is exceptional and although he's not the in and under player some want him to be, his footy brain and finishing are exceptional. Don't underestimate how important that is when you have a lead up temperamental forward like Fev who needs exceptional delivery to a) kick goals b) keep his cool. Hadley and Pfiffer will come on further to provide the hardness at the contest to dish the ball to the runners - Stevens, Hoops etc. Hadley has great reflexes in the contest and his use of handball is exceptional. And then theres Judd... oh Judd... 4-5 more weeks and watch out. Lastly, as the guys get more familiar with each other and the game plan, things will click. Right now we hold the ball up too much and don't run and handball enough. Our kick to handball ration is still too high. But that will come with familiarity and confidence in each other and the game plan itself. Patience people. I know its tough because we all want instant gratification and instant results. But thats not how it works when your building a team that can sustain long term success. Just enjoy the little bits of improvement and the scoreboard results will take care of themselves. I would be more than happy to see only 6-8 victories as long as we keep seeing improvements in the areas that are more important for the long term. |
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| Author: | fjanyc [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:07 am ] |
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fantastic post nytdog. it is important to keep things in perspective. We lost nearly 700 games of experience with Kouta, Lappin and Whitnall. We have replaced them with youngsters and it is going to take time. Good to see some like Betts and Jamo taking the next step. |
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| Author: | Buzza4 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:51 am ] |
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you're absolutely right, thanks for putting some sense into this place. I'd be happy with one win for right now... I'm relieved to see bower coming along. I must admit with some shame that I haven't been too sure about him in the past but the last couple of weeks he has improved with each game. If only he could kick it straight without seeming to panic... good work dog |
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| Author: | Humpers [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:57 am ] |
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Good post nytdog. Things are definitely looking better now than any time since 2002. I feel that the return of Walker in the 2nd half of the season combined with Judd/Stevens/Hadley reaching 100% fitness will result in a significant improvement. A key defender ala Glass, Scarlett, Rutten is what we need most now. Hopefully Setanta can develop further and fill this void. |
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| Author: | Wild Blue Yonder [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:01 am ] |
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I concur with the dog - i reckon every week we've been getting better. Some have just failed to grasp from how far back we've been coming. Now play Carlos on Dum Dum Rocca on Sunday. |
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| Author: | klomp [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:18 am ] |
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i agree - much improved performance. But I disagree to an extent that it was a fitness issue that cost us the game. I think Carlton just relies too much on its superstars. Carlton had too many non-contributors on the weekend. Good teams these days need to be very even. Carlton's worst 6 are still probably among the worst 6 in the AFL. I think depth is clearly our biggest issue (along with defence). |
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| Author: | bondiblue [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:20 am ] |
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A very good and pragmatic post nytdog. Thanks for sharing your views. My response = Ditto. |
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| Author: | DownUnderChick [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:35 am ] |
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I also watched the game [although there was some emotion still in me]. Whilst I concur with nytdog, I will say the danger that we face moving forward with the obvious talent that we have, is if we continue to have too many passengers in our team. Judd and co, cannot cover for everyone. We need 22 players all doing their bit for every game and only then will we start winning games of footy. The signs are wonderful, but we need to be vigilant about the type of team we want to be. We are a team that can least afford any passengers. |
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| Author: | Steve_C7 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:41 am ] |
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Great post nytgod. I agree with your assessment and get the feeling that when things finaly click with this group, then we will see a rapid improvement as a team. I have faith that we now have the cattle for a good team and now only need to draft to improve the depth of the team which will allow a more conventional development of the younger players. We all knew that the guys like Gibbs, Murphy, Kruezer, Hadley etc would be good players, but its the second tier that will make or break this side and we need for all of them to improve which for the most part they are. I believe that Pfiffer, Jamison, Bower, Hampson and o'Hailpin will give consistant improvement as the side plays better and if Grigg, armfield and browne can make an impact we should start to see the nucleus of a top 8 team. The only question marks I have are of Russel - this guy really needs to spend allot of time in the Ants for both the team and for himself. He is struggling to hold his place in the team and he knows it, so his primary motive is to play for himself and get as many cheap stats as possible. Taking the pressure and spotlight of him will allow him to focus on playing the team game and give him some confidence. I know that we need to develop the kids, but we also need to reward effort of those playing for the ants and send a message to all the Blues players that no matter how senior you are, no-one is an automatic selection. If you don't put in or are out of form, then you play for the ants. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:42 am ] |
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We play Collingwood next week. Then MElbourne. Then youd have to think we will be playing stronger sides consitently. 0-3 so far..... Essendon* arent much chop...!!! The AFL did us a favour and gave us Richmond first up. StKilda are average.... If Ratts and Co dont turn it around soon....,,,,,, well.... Ratts is on the smallest amount of money of any AFL coah and only a 2 year contract.... his career will have ended quicker than it began.... |
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| Author: | AGRO [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Watch the game again without emotion... |
nytdog wrote: Plus a couple of our senior players put in uncharacterstic average games (Simpson, Scotland, Hoops & probably even Thornton come to mind). So if it wasn't for some unlucky breaks (ie late goals, Fev's posters), poor umpiring decisions and lack of fitness of key players the game would have been ours.
Agree with just about everything you said  .
Except Scotland and Houlihan have got to go and Thornton is on thin ice. |
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| Author: | Prussian Blue [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:17 am ] |
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ITA nytdog. I can see the tide changing, it has already turned. I'm keen for a win just like everyone else, but unlike the last several years I can now see real improvement week after week. Of course there is lots of work to go but I am happy with how far we've come to date given where we came from. |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Watch the game again without emotion... |
AGRO wrote: nytdog wrote: Plus a couple of our senior players put in uncharacterstic average games (Simpson, Scotland, Hoops & probably even Thornton come to mind). So if it wasn't for some unlucky breaks (ie late goals, Fev's posters), poor umpiring decisions and lack of fitness of key players the game would have been ours. Agree with just about everything you said .Except Scotland and Houlihan have got to go and Thornton is on thin ice. pretty much spot on, except for your Thornton comments, without him we would be even more screwed. The players that are coasting or not performing up to scratch really do need to be reminded that they are not walk up starters - as mentioned Scotland, Houlihan and even Simpson (whats wrong with him?) need a good talking to. |
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| Author: | 2ndeffort [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:44 am ] |
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God post, I like everyone else was gutted with both the loss and the, until recently unthinkable culture of accepting Carlton losses as positive. I have to admit thought, that after last week's debacle all I wanted to see was a Carlton outfit that put their heart on the line and had a dip. I reckon I saw that the other night. Judd looked like he'd spent his petrol tickets at 3/4 time but he went out to battle again in the 4th qtr. Pundits on SEN gave 3 of the 4 BOG spots to Carlton players even though we lost. I hate to resort to it as it sounds like a whinge and there's nothing you can do about it but the umpiring was atrocious. I can think of at least 3 goals gifted to the Scum under dubious/controversial circumstances. How is Eddie Betts copping a missed hanger in the side of the head a free kick, sure he took his eyes off the ball, but you couldnt say he impeded Fletcher in any way. I reckon it would draw my attention if a 6 ft 7 bloke weighing 90+ kilos leapt with his knee at the side of my head!! And that play on where the scum bloke was wrapped up, dropped the ball and they ran on and scored, atrocious!!!! |
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| Author: | AGRO [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Watch the game again without emotion... |
kingkerna wrote: AGRO wrote: nytdog wrote: Plus a couple of our senior players put in uncharacterstic average games (Simpson, Scotland, Hoops & probably even Thornton come to mind). So if it wasn't for some unlucky breaks (ie late goals, Fev's posters), poor umpiring decisions and lack of fitness of key players the game would have been ours. Agree with just about everything you said .Except Scotland and Houlihan have got to go and Thornton is on thin ice. pretty much spot on, except for your Thornton comments, without him we would be even more screwed. The players that are coasting or not performing up to scratch really do need to be reminded that they are not walk up starters - as mentioned Scotland, Houlihan and even Simpson (whats wrong with him?) need a good talking to. I am prepared to cut Simpson some slack (a lot of slack actually considering his past record) - I would be prepared to say their is something physically wrong with him at the moment - usually his disposal is slick and precise but last Saturday Night he rivalled Carazzo as our clanger king. That is not the Simpson I know and who captained our side last year - something is wrong their and I am sure he will turn it around quickly. Thornton - will have to do more IMHO and will have to do less whinging. |
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| Author: | George Harris [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:49 am ] |
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2ndeffort wrote: I hate to resort to it as it sounds like a whinge and there's nothing you can do about it but the umpiring was atrocious. I can think of at least 3 goals gifted to the Scum under dubious/controversial circumstances. How is Eddie Betts copping a missed hanger in the side of the head a free kick, sure he took his eyes off the ball, but you couldnt say he impeded Fletcher in any way. I reckon it would draw my attention if a 6 ft 7 bloke weighing 90+ kilos leapt with his knee at the side of my head!! And that play on where the scum bloke was wrapped up, dropped the ball and they ran on and scored, atrocious!!!!
The Lance Whitnall rule resurrected! Biggest load of bullshit I've ever seen. |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:55 am ] |
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Look what I find depressing is that it is not the kids and I have to accept that until the kids become 100 game players (and Scotland, Houla, T-Bird and maybe even Carrots, Fev and some others are replaced, and the kids who are not going to make it weeded out - and some will not make it) we will always be one of the shittiest teams running around. So - how many games has Murph played? Bower? Jammo? Gibbsey? thats depressing. I thought with Judd, with Stevo back, with Murph and Gibbsey and Simmo older (and Tex but his injury hurts us) that Houla and Scotland etc might lift their workrates, attitudes, skills or whatever other weaknesses our mid-tier players have they haven't. |
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| Author: | DownUnderChick [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:57 am ] |
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They need to draw a line in the sand on some of these players and state categorically, that they are playing for their careers and anything less than 110% will not be acceptable. |
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| Author: | AGRO [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:58 am ] |
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George Harris wrote: 2ndeffort wrote: I hate to resort to it as it sounds like a whinge and there's nothing you can do about it but the umpiring was atrocious. I can think of at least 3 goals gifted to the Scum under dubious/controversial circumstances. How is Eddie Betts copping a missed hanger in the side of the head a free kick, sure he took his eyes off the ball, but you couldnt say he impeded Fletcher in any way. I reckon it would draw my attention if a 6 ft 7 bloke weighing 90+ kilos leapt with his knee at the side of my head!! And that play on where the scum bloke was wrapped up, dropped the ball and they ran on and scored, atrocious!!!! The Lance Whitnall rule resurrected! Biggest load of bullshit I've ever seen. Unfortunately the Umpire DVD uses clips of Lance Whitnall when they talk about the shepherding rule so the stupid blithering idiots who umpire our games see a Navy Blue Jumper and automatically adjudge it to be a free kick. 
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| Author: | Siegfried [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:06 am ] |
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Scotland seems to be playing deeper in defence (not sure if that is Ratten's plan or the oppositions), and it is not suiting him, he's not able to run as he likes to. Maybe he needs a run in the midfield. One of the key things about Saturday night's game for me, aside from all those already mentioned, was that by having 3 ruckman, we were able to rotate them, one in the ruck, one forward, and one on the bench. Having that extra mobile tall down forward gave our forward line a much-needed added dimension, and, as Doggie alluded to, gave us a better structure. Expect to see more of that, and may be a (temporary) answer to not having a genuine CHF - Fevola, Fisher and resting ruckman, plus 3 smalls. |
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