TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Question from an outsider looking in....

No taking the piss at all here.... as a fellow frustrated (and for many more years than you guys) supporter.... I am curious on your thoughts to the following......

Carton seem to have a very effective midfield and Forward Line. IMHO.... if games were only played form the Centre Line ---> Full Forward.... Carlton would figure somewhere between Positions 4-8 in the league.

As an outside, it seems the Backline is totally neglected.... A complete lack of the following:
- Structure
- Personell
- Undertanding

I just don't understand it. For the past 2-3 years I have considered the best team ever to consistently finish in the bottom few. Everytime the Saints come up against the Blues (eg. last week)... I get nervous... and yes, part of that is because of what you guys did to us from about 1902 ---> 2002..... but that aside....it just seems to me there is a complete lack of direction / structure in your back line.

Easily the worst / innefective back 6 I have ever seen.... yet certainly, NOT the worst 6 players I have seeen by a long way!!

Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, and I'm sure you will tell me if I do....

PS - Kruzer... what a gun!!! You did well to finish last in 07.... that guy is going to be a dead set superstar!!

We didn't finish last in 2007.

Seaford_Saint wrote:

Structure is fine with Jamo, Waite and T-Bird all playing very well this year. The problem is the lack of accountability through the midfield and lack of small defenders.

Seaford_Saint wrote:

Structure is fine with Jamo, Waite and T-Bird all playing very well this year. The problem is the lack of accountability through the midfield and lack of small defenders.

mjonc wrote:

Seaford_Saint wrote:

Structure is fine with Jamo, Waite and T-Bird all playing very well this year. The problem is the lack of accountability through the midfield and lack of small defenders.

Waites a forward...T-bird is a dud (right up there with JR) and has terrible skills at best...and Jamo is a rookie who MAY yet still develop in one of our back six....the other 3 positions are taken up by females dressed up as footballers Houla, Scotland an co.

I rest my case.

I honestly thought our key backman in Jamo, Waite & T-Bird beat their opponents. The problem was there was too much easy ball coming into the F50 from runners further up the ground. The corridor was owned by Bummers, again by the opposition and once they got the break we couldn't stop them. We did however win the clearances, the contested footy and tackling. :shock:

Author:	Seaford_Saint [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Question from an outsider looking in....
No taking the piss at all here.... as a fellow frustrated (and for many more years than you guys) supporter.... I am curious on your thoughts to the following...... Carton seem to have a very effective midfield and Forward Line. IMHO.... if games were only played form the Centre Line ---> Full Forward.... Carlton would figure somewhere between Positions 4-8 in the league. As an outside, it seems the Backline is totally neglected.... A complete lack of the following: - Structure - Personell - Undertanding I just don't understand it. For the past 2-3 years I have considered the best team ever to consistently finish in the bottom few. Everytime the Saints come up against the Blues (eg. last week)... I get nervous... and yes, part of that is because of what you guys did to us from about 1902 ---> 2002..... but that aside....it just seems to me there is a complete lack of direction / structure in your back line. Easily the worst / innefective back 6 I have ever seen.... yet certainly, NOT the worst 6 players I have seeen by a long way!! Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, and I'm sure you will tell me if I do.... PS - Kruzer... what a gun!!! You did well to finish last in 07.... that guy is going to be a dead set superstar!!

Author:	Jarusa [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Good question. No easy answer though. The really simple answer though is that since the retirement of Sexton and Silvagni we have not had a regular FB or CHB. That is roughly the same time we have been down the bottom of the ladder. That is oversimplifying things though, our midfield in that time is also to blame. At the moment though we look to have a developing FB in Jamison who primises to be long term and Waite who is our nominal CHB, but nature abhors a vaccum and we have a vacuum at CHF as well which he will keep being attracted to. So our long term CHB is still yet to be concrete. Then there are the HBFs and BPs. There have been massive problems in these areas as well for 6 or 7 years. But key position players are the bigger issue.

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:
I think the backline have performed ok, certainly the last two weeks. We held the Saints trio of gehrig, Reiwoldt and Kozi pretty well and tonight Lloyd got 4, with his usual couple of cheapies included so its not our KP backmen that are letting us down this year. Essendon* had at least 14 individual goalkickers. The biggest issue is the lack of presssure and accountability in the midfield.

Author:	Mil Hanna [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Question from an outsider looking in....
Seaford_Saint wrote: No taking the piss at all here.... as a fellow frustrated (and for many more years than you guys) supporter.... I am curious on your thoughts to the following...... Carton seem to have a very effective midfield and Forward Line. IMHO.... if games were only played form the Centre Line ---> Full Forward.... Carlton would figure somewhere between Positions 4-8 in the league. As an outside, it seems the Backline is totally neglected.... A complete lack of the following: - Structure - Personell - Undertanding I just don't understand it. For the past 2-3 years I have considered the best team ever to consistently finish in the bottom few. Everytime the Saints come up against the Blues (eg. last week)... I get nervous... and yes, part of that is because of what you guys did to us from about 1902 ---> 2002..... but that aside....it just seems to me there is a complete lack of direction / structure in your back line. Easily the worst / innefective back 6 I have ever seen.... yet certainly, NOT the worst 6 players I have seeen by a long way!! Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, and I'm sure you will tell me if I do.... PS - Kruzer... what a gun!!! You did well to finish last in 07.... that guy is going to be a dead set superstar!! The question that bugs a lot of us seaford_saint, and by the way, welcome! Before I offer an opion on this, please let me get this straight, we did not finish last in 2007. NINTHMOND did!!!!! Regarding your statement, Kreuz is looking the goods...... for his first game.

Author:	mjonc [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Question from an outsider looking in....
Seaford_Saint wrote: No taking the piss at all here.... as a fellow frustrated (and for many more years than you guys) supporter.... I am curious on your thoughts to the following...... Carton seem to have a very effective midfield and Forward Line. IMHO.... if games were only played form the Centre Line ---> Full Forward.... Carlton would figure somewhere between Positions 4-8 in the league. As an outside, it seems the Backline is totally neglected.... A complete lack of the following: - Structure - Personell - Undertanding I just don't understand it. For the past 2-3 years I have considered the best team ever to consistently finish in the bottom few. Everytime the Saints come up against the Blues (eg. last week)... I get nervous... and yes, part of that is because of what you guys did to us from about 1902 ---> 2002..... but that aside....it just seems to me there is a complete lack of direction / structure in your back line. Easily the worst / innefective back 6 I have ever seen.... yet certainly, NOT the worst 6 players I have seeen by a long way!! Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, and I'm sure you will tell me if I do.... PS - Kruzer... what a gun!!! You did well to finish last in 07.... that guy is going to be a dead set superstar!! Structure is fine with Jamo, Waite and T-Bird all playing very well this year. The problem is the lack of accountability through the midfield and lack of small defenders.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Question from an outsider looking in.... http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20683	Page 1 of 2

Author:	dannyboy [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Our idea of defense is to kick more than the opposition, so far (say 6 years) it isn't working.

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:
We didn't finish last in 2007.

Author:	Mil Hanna [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:
SurreyBlue wrote: We didn't finish last in 2007. Already said that Surrey

Author:	Pafloyul [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Question from an outsider looking in....
mjonc wrote: Seaford_Saint wrote: No taking the piss at all here.... as a fellow frustrated (and for many more years than you guys) supporter.... I am curious on your thoughts to the following...... Carton seem to have a very effective midfield and Forward Line. IMHO.... if games were only played form the Centre Line ---> Full Forward.... Carlton would figure somewhere between Positions 4-8 in the league. As an outside, it seems the Backline is totally neglected.... A complete lack of the following: - Structure - Personell - Undertanding I just don't understand it. For the past 2-3 years I have considered the best team ever to consistently finish in the bottom few. Everytime the Saints come up against the Blues (eg. last week)... I get nervous... and yes, part of that is because of what you guys did to us from about 1902 ---> 2002..... but that aside....it just seems to me there is a complete lack of direction / structure in your back line. Easily the worst / innefective back 6 I have ever seen.... yet certainly, NOT the worst 6 players I have seeen by a long way!! Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, and I'm sure you will tell me if I do.... PS - Kruzer... what a gun!!! You did well to finish last in 07.... that guy is going to be a dead set superstar!! Structure is fine with Jamo, Waite and T-Bird all playing very well this year. The problem is the lack of accountability through the midfield and lack of small defenders. It always boils down to the midfield. I don't know if we need it but I would sure as hell like for Setanta to come good or for us to get our hands on a extra tall forward and rotating ruckman specialist.

Author:	Springsteen [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:
bring back mick martyn

Author:	Juddy&theKruezers [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Question from an outsider looking in....
Seaford_Saint wrote: No taking the piss at all here.... as a fellow frustrated (and for many more years than you guys) supporter.... I am curious on your thoughts to the following...... Carton seem to have a very effective midfield and Forward Line. IMHO.... if games were only played form the Centre Line ---> Full Forward.... Carlton would figure somewhere between Positions 4-8 in the league. As an outside, it seems the Backline is totally neglected.... A complete lack of the following: - Structure - Personell - Undertanding I just don't understand it. For the past 2-3 years I have considered the best team ever to consistently finish in the bottom few. Everytime the Saints come up against the Blues (eg. last week)... I get nervous... and yes, part of that is because of what you guys did to us from about 1902 ---> 2002..... but that aside....it just seems to me there is a complete lack of direction / structure in your back line. Easily the worst / innefective back 6 I have ever seen.... yet certainly, NOT the worst 6 players I have seeen by a long way!! Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, and I'm sure you will tell me if I do.... PS - Kruzer... what a gun!!! You did well to finish last in 07.... that guy is going to be a dead set superstar!! At last somebody who gets where we are at and why. Thank you.

Author:	AGRO [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:
Seaford Saint are you too young to remember "The Don Lane Show?" Do what Don told James Randi to do and make it fast.

Author:	Mil Hanna [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Question from an outsider looking in....
Juddy&theKruezers wrote: mjonc wrote: Seaford_Saint wrote: No taking the piss at all here.... as a fellow frustrated (and for many more years than you guys) supporter.... I am curious on your thoughts to the following...... Carton seem to have a very effective midfield and Forward Line. IMHO.... if games were only played form the Centre Line ---> Full Forward.... Carlton would figure somewhere between Positions 4-8 in the league. As an outside, it seems the Backline is totally neglected.... A complete lack of the following: - Structure - Personell - Undertanding I just don't understand it. For the past 2-3 years I have considered the best team ever to consistently finish in the bottom few. Everytime the Saints come up against the Blues (eg. last week)... I get nervous... and yes, part of that is because of what you guys did to us from about 1902 ---> 2002..... but that aside....it just seems to me there is a complete lack of direction / structure in your back line. Easily the worst / innefective back 6 I have ever seen.... yet certainly, NOT the worst 6 players I have seeen by a long way!! Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, and I'm sure you will tell me if I do.... PS - Kruzer... what a gun!!! You did well to finish last in 07.... that guy is going to be a dead set superstar!! Structure is fine with Jamo, Waite and T-Bird all playing very well this year. The problem is the lack of accountability through the midfield and lack of small defenders. Waites a forward...T-bird is a dud (right up there with JR) and has terrible skills at best...and Jamo is a rookie who MAY yet still develop in one of our back six....the other 3 positions are taken up by females dressed up as footballers Houla, Scotland an co. I rest my case. Look out, captain positivity has entered the building!! You should head down to punt road if you like to eat your own. Get a grip tiger. Slagging off the backline when the ball gets pumped into the Def 50 time after time without resistance reeks of scapegoating. How about blaming our midfield and half forwards? Hang on, you'll probably say the same thing about everyone involved. The question is, what will you say when we win?

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:
I honestly thought our key backman in Jamo, Waite & T-Bird beat their opponents. The problem was there was too much easy ball coming into the F50 from runners further up the ground. The corridor was owned by Bummers, again by the opposition and once they got the break we couldn't stop them. We did however win the clearances, the contested footy and tackling.

Author:	true_blue3 [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:
get SOS to be a full-time backline assistant coach. we've got enough money to get him there so let's do it. in fact, at the end of this year i think we should look to get as many gun assistant coaches as we possibly can. if this is the last thing pratt does for us i'd really like to see assistant coaches such as longmire, bond and possibly even buckley or voss all assistant coaches at carlton next year.

Author:	Ruckus [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Excellent post, Seaford_Saint - thanks for contributing in such an analytical and balanced manner. Welcome! Your point is indeed a valid one, and your questioning would be shared by many of us, I'm sure. Our defensive situation does appear to have been something of an after-thought for some years now. Perhaps Bret Thornton aside, we've suffered the consequences of cobbling together a makeshift defensive unit consisting of blokes who, quite frankly, aren't defenders (Scotland, Houlihan, Bannister, Gibbs (and now Simpson?) et al), or those still very much learning the caper (Bower, Jamison, O'hAilpin, Gibbs again and to an extent Waite). So, as you say, perhaps not the worst collection of footballers as such, but for mine, just not a good enough defensive 'unit' either. Whatever combination we do throw together down there is invariably not helped by the sheer frequency and speed with which opposition teams pump the ball into our back half, though, although that is whole other discussion perhaps (do we have too many one-way-only midfielders, do we run hard enough defensively as a team?). We probably are a defender or two short though, with no real unexplored options in the big-man department - development needs to continue with Jamison and Bower (and perhaps O'hAilpin), and most weeks Waite will simply have to play at CHB - I can't see any other option. Austin just simply isn't ready, and Saddington, while he may get a chance to plug a hole back there at some stage soon, is obviously not a long-term answer. It's patently clear why we, by all accounts, chased Rutten last year... Perhaps the time has well and truly come to try Armfield and/or Browne as smaller defenders, and perhaps to give Anderson another crack also. It's very early days for Grigg as a footballer, too, but I'm not convinced he's a defender, either. The Essendon* forward line tonight was perhaps an extreme example, but we've had little to no answer when faced with small forwards for years now. To say we'll be desperately looking to boost our defensive stocks come the end of the year is a massive understatement! Until then, this is our lot in life, so fingers crossed the young blokes kick-on quickly...

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Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:
SurreyBlue wrote: I honestly thought our key backman in Jamo, Waite & T-Bird beat their opponents. The problem was there was too much easy ball coming into the F50 from runners further up the ground. The corridor was owned by Bummers, again by the opposition and once they got the break we couldn't stop them. We did however win the clearances, the contested footy and tackling. I think they had more tackles...because we had more of the ball, but otherwise I agree with everything you've said SB.

Author:	Mil Hanna [ Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:
SurreyBlue wrote: I honestly thought our key backman in Jamo, Waite & T-Bird beat their opponents. The problem was there was too much easy ball coming into the F50 from runners further up the ground. The corridor was owned by Bummers, again by the opposition and once they got the break we couldn't stop them. We did however win the clearances, the contested footy and tackling. About time for some sense. Sums it up pretty well Surrey.