TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Another Question

I am interested to hear of how people will react if we where to win the next two games.

We play Geelong and then Melbourne.

What would everyones attitude be towards our team if we did infact win the next two games?

We would stand at 4 wins, 1 draw and 4 loses.

I hated the way we played on the weekend, and alot of the players, and staff need to have a long hard look at themselves, I think everyone is giving the coaching staff a let off here and IMO they have as much to answer as the players. Having said all that, some of you need to assess if you really want to follow carlton or not.

Im as dissppointed as anyone - i hated the lost bur more so i hated the way we played, however i will always support my team regardless. Any player that pulls on the jumper has my unwavering support and i used to think many here also had the same passion, alas, i was sadly mistaken.

But again, i ask what everyones opinion of this club and its players would be if we win the next two games and stand at 4 wins and a draw after 9 rounds.

Would we still want to trade our entire list for 3 first round picks?

Good post Rob Heatley.

there is nothing wrong with the game plan... its got to do with tose who arent executing it.
Would pin point passing work better do you guys think?
Do we have the skills for that??
Were playing percentage football and we cant do it properly cos theyre bludging!!!Pissweak cheats..and no leadership...

Denis allows them to go sideways, or short.. or pin point a pass. he allows them to man up.. tackle.. run with the ball.. he would love them to convert.. chase.. hip and shoulder.. show some passion.. skill...

Lance Whitnall 14 K 5 HB 19 P 7 M

there are stats and there are stats...

I'm sure DEnis has made some mistakes but when an organisation isnt performing, everyone should be scrutinised.

Blue Vain wrote:

I'm sure DEnis has made some mistakes but when an organisation isnt performing, everyone should be scrutinised.

couldnt agree more BV

eveyone should be scrutinised, but you dont fire everyone and start again do you?

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Sun May 08, 2005 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Another Question
I am interested to hear of how people will react if we where to win the next two games. We play Geelong and then Melbourne. What would everyones attitude be towards our team if we did infact win the next two games? We would stand at 4 wins, 1 draw and 4 loses. I hated the way we played on the weekend, and alot of the players, and staff need to have a long hard look at themselves, I think everyone is giving the coaching staff a let off here and IMO they have as much to answer as the players. Having said all that, some of you need to assess if you really want to follow carlton or not. Im as dissppointed as anyone - i hated the lost bur more so i hated the way we played, however i will always support my team regardless. Any player that pulls on the jumper has my unwavering support and i used to think many here also had the same passion, alas, i was sadly mistaken. But again, i ask what everyones opinion of this club and its players would be if we win the next two games and stand at 4 wins and a draw after 9 rounds. Would we still want to trade our entire list for 3 first round picks?

Author:	camel [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:23 pm ]
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Only if we lose in R10 Prez.

Author:	BlueWorld [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:24 pm ]
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To quote Denis: "We're more up & down than a honeymooners nightie". Already given my opinion on the poster who wants to get rid of 24 players and no doubt we'll be singing the praises of most those 24 when they play well again as we did the last time they played well not long ago.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Another Question
ThePrez wrote: I am interested to hear of how people will react if we where to win the next two games. We play Geelong and then Melbourne. What would everyones attitude be towards our team if we did infact win the next two games? We would stand at 4 wins, 1 draw and 4 loses. I hated the way we played on the weekend, and alot of the players, and staff need to have a long hard look at themselves, I think everyone is giving the coaching staff a let off here and IMO they have as much to answer as the players. Having said all that, some of you need to assess if you really want to follow carlton or not. Im as dissppointed as anyone - i hated the lost bur more so i hated the way we played, however i will always support my team regardless. Any player that pulls on the jumper has my unwavering support and i used to think many here also had the same passion, alas, i was sadly mistaken. But again, i ask what everyones opinion of this club and its players would be if we win the next two games and stand at 4 wins and a draw after 9 rounds. Would we still want to trade our entire list for 3 first round picks? and if my aunt had balls shed be my uncle.. How the hell can you say..what are you going to think if we win our next two games??? weve played the crap sides already scraped in against Essendon* and Hawthorn.. drew against Port who had lost any hunger and been shitted on by last years wooden spooners and beaten by this years worst team in the competition... and got abit lucky against the juggernaut that is Hawthorn..

Author:	verbs [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:35 pm ]
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Great post Prez. People want to hide behind the shield of a loss, it's like they're scared of the Blues winning...if we win it would mean they were wrong. In a two horse race you're either going to be wrong or right. Easy to take the negative option, especially when the chips are down. It's human nature.

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:35 pm ]
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This is the thing that I'm struggling with. People aren't happy any week. I guess this season we haven't had a game where we've really played well. We snuck over the line against Essendon*, drew with Port Adelaide who were in a form slump and again snuck over the line against the Hawks, but the knives are out whether we win or lose. A lot of these knockers seem to have come from nowhere, we'ren't around on here during the Wizard Cup. If they'd mix a little joy with all the negative's then it wouldn't sound so bad, but the constant knocking really gets to you. I haven't even opened half the thread's in the forum because I'm scared of what I'm going to find in there at the moment.

Author:	Mickstar [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:	The Prez
Quite right Prez.But they gotta do it first.Point about coaching staff is spot on.They have gotten off scott free and seem to be sacred cows around here.Not for mine.The Pagans paddock isnt working and is never going to workIts a dinosaur concept.And our assistants being Elshaug,Mitchell and Liberatore are all ex onballers and we are getting smashed in clearances.Have a look fellas.Dont tell me it cant be done coz Rats transformed an inept Dees midfield.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:52 pm ]
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there is nothing wrong with the game plan... its got to do with tose who arent executing it. Would pin point passing work better do you guys think? Do we have the skills for that?? Were playing percentage football and we cant do it properly cos theyre bludging!!!Pissweak cheats..and no leadership... Denis allows them to go sideways, or short.. or pin point a pass. he allows them to man up.. tackle.. run with the ball.. he would love them to convert.. chase.. hip and shoulder.. show some passion.. skill... What you think Denis has banned all those things??? HE would be bleeding inside watching the rudderless ship.. dont kid yourselves. some flower on TBV reckons the training reporters are fukwits and were misleading.. well maybe we are.. but one thing is for sure.. they dont do what they practice doing ... You dont think im pissed off by watching the crap were doing on the field when i KNOW what we train to do???

Author:	Robert Heatley [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:59 pm ]
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The underlying issue is that we disqualified ourselves from the 1999 draft (O'Reilly and Mansfield) the 2001 draft (McKernan) then got disqualified in 2002 and 2003. We lack in the ruck (Barnaby needs help - we get smashed when he rests) Our defence = Thornton & Teague We lack midfield depth - Kouta and Stevens then the class falls away I actually find it difficult to be critical of the players - our list is full of players who would be ranked 18 - 22 in most teams, and some weeks that doesn't cut it. I actually admire the effort they put in most of the time. We need to get 5 draft picks in the top 25, but short of trading blokes like Waite and Walker, I can't see how it can happen. Just a thought - in 2000 I reckon most teams were rebuilding, that is how Essendon* go through the year with one loss and we win 13 in a row with a side that was a fair way short of the 1995 side but had a bloke called Kouta at he height of his powers. Five years on, many of the sides have got their structures in place and are a long way ahead of us and Essendon*.

Author:	camel [ Sun May 08, 2005 11:05 pm ]
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Good post Rob Heatley.

Author:	Ponkstar [ Sun May 08, 2005 11:25 pm ]
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camelboy wrote: Good post Rob Heatley. Especially that last para. It makes a lot of sense.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Mon May 09, 2005 12:17 am ]
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Synbad wrote: there is nothing wrong with the game plan... its got to do with tose who arent executing it. Would pin point passing work better do you guys think? Do we have the skills for that?? Were playing percentage football and we cant do it properly cos theyre bludging!!!Pissweak cheats..and no leadership... Denis allows them to go sideways, or short.. or pin point a pass. he allows them to man up.. tackle.. run with the ball.. he would love them to convert.. chase.. hip and shoulder.. show some passion.. skill... the coaching panel has to take some responsibility for this. I may get flamed for this and no doubt i will, but the last few weeks has shown pagan to be a coach that acts to reaction. Very rarely are his moves creative. Just about all his moves in the first few weeks have been negative. Kouta on Treadrea, Whitnall on Pavlich to think of a few. Please dont misunderstand me - i reckon he is a great coach and he would be bleeding, but alot of his "options" have been very defensive and some have even happened to late over the last few weeks. IMO - i think the players are having a bad run after the wizzer cup, but i also think our coaching panel is having a bad run as well. But - unlike some of you guys - i have the faith in the coaching panel as well as the playing list to turn it around. But - becuase alot of you have formed positions on certain players, regardless of what they will do it will never be enough. Whintall could come out and kick 25 goals in the next 3 games and you guys would still find a way to belittle his efforts. Mayhaps the defender he was playing on kicked a goal or something. For negative nellies like some of you are - there will always be something wrong. Am i surprised on where we are at at the moment - you bet your ass i am. But it is also something to think about that since the wizzer cup, we have yet to fill the same side that played that game. Liviningston and Thorton are now close to being the nucleas of our team. Our defence just seems miles better with those 2 in. The thing that dissappoints me is i think our fully fit team is up there with the best of them. Teague Livingston Carazzo Scotland Thorton Houlahan Walker Johnson Camporeale Waite Whitnall Lappin Betts Fevola Fisher French, Kouta, Stevens int Prenda, Deluca, Bannister, Sporn emerg O'Halphin, Wiggins, McGrath that is the team i would like to see us play before we start trading them all for 3 pics in the first round.

Author:	Synbad [ Mon May 09, 2005 12:30 am ]
Post subject:
Whitnall is just as likely to come out and gain 25 kilos in the next 3 weeks than kick 25 goals. Why do we have to talk about stuff that hasnt got a snowflakes chance in hell ? Why do we have to say dont criticise Whitnall because he MIGHT come out and kick 25 in the next 3 weeks??? Why not have a look at what he did in the last 3 weeks ??? Thats a cue for BM to give us Whitnalls stats.. (junk time because he did bugger all when the game wa disappearing in the first half) If we didnt know who won the game and all we had to go on were Stevens Campos, Koutas and Scotlands stats along with whitnalls.. how many of you would have guessed we lost by near 100 points?? How the hell can these guys rack up these kind of stats and we got done by 100 points???..( what it should have been if they didnt relax) stats mean f/a!!!

Author:	BlueWorld [ Mon May 09, 2005 12:39 am ]
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Lance Whitnall 14 K 5 HB 19 P 7 M

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Author:	Synbad [ Mon May 09, 2005 12:41 am ]
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BlueWorld wrote: Lance Whitnall 14 K 5 HB 19 P 7 M Youd think along with campos stevens koutas and scotlands stats we smashed them eh???? there are stats and there are stats...

Author:	Kevin Bohane [ Mon May 09, 2005 1:03 am ]
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how about this one synbad "there are three types of lies- lies, damned lies and statistics"

Author:	Synbad [ Mon May 09, 2005 1:06 am ]
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Kevin i agree.. Great how you broke a story on TC.,. i think you should get thread of the week. Setanta kicked a goal.. which was great.. good to see Denis protected him from the carnage.. dont want him thinking its a hard game .. He will make it!!!

Author:	Blue Vain [ Mon May 09, 2005 6:44 am ]
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Synbad wrote: there are stats and there are stats... That statement is correct 83% of the time, Synbad. I dont understand your view Prez. If I believe Whitnall should take some responsibility, I'm a "negative nellie" Yet its OK for you to say the coaching staff should take some responsibility? I didnt see Whitnall on Pavlich as a negative move at all. I thought Pagan was being proactive. If Pavlich tried to run off Whitnall and get his kicks up around the wing, he would have less impact. Unfortunately he was too good for Lance but lets face it, he's too good for anyone at the moment. Lance isnt getting a sniff at the moment. He showed his hand in the first 90 seconds on Saturday when he let Gaspar run outside 50 with the ball and Lance stood 15 metres out not even watching him. Pagan plays him up back because he is forced to be involved. He has to run, he has to chase and he has to make every contest. In the past he got plenty of goals from doubling back on his opponent and not chasing. The ball would be turned over and Lance would be in the 50 in space. The problem now is we are doing the turning over. If everyone isnt accountable, the loose man is created and our backs are under siege. I'm sure DEnis has made some mistakes but when an organisation isnt performing, everyone should be scrutinised.

Author:	ScottSaunders [ Mon May 09, 2005 8:00 am ]
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Blue Vain wrote: I'm sure DEnis has made some mistakes but when an organisation isnt performing, everyone should be scrutinised. couldnt agree more BV eveyone should be scrutinised, but you dont fire everyone and start again do you? and im not defending whitnall but some people do have a very negative attitude towards him and others is all, and regardless of what they do, they will never be able to please everyone here.

Author:	Synbad [ Mon May 09, 2005 8:06 am ]
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ThePrez wrote: Blue Vain wrote: I'm sure DEnis has made some mistakes but when an organisation isnt performing, everyone should be scrutinised. couldnt agree more BV eveyone should be scrutinised, but you dont fire everyone and start again do you? until we can get some fair dinkum output from our leaders were not going anywhere. .. either they get fair dinkum and knuckle down .. fly the flag or they can piss off.... because denis isnt about being a matchday coach where he will look at changes to win a game of footy. these blokes are prepared during the week.. month,, year .. years to go into battle and do whats required. Lance has been in the Pagan system 2 1/2 years now and is still cant grasp it. These guys create the extra man... Denis could hae quite easily flooded on saturday..flooded against Richmond!!! .. can you imagine that???... but all that does is it doesnt flush out the cheats who dont play accountable footy.