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Would you support the decision to bottom out this season?
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Author:  phoenix johnson [ Sun May 08, 2005 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Would you support the decision to bottom out this season?
With recent comments on here in the last 24 hours stating that we should play the kids, get them some invaluable experience and inturn acquire some early picks in the draft, would you support that decision to bottom out?

The upside to it is that we are able to snag one maybe two quality kids in the draft and keep building for the future. Also, with a fair bit of cash floating around at seasons end due to contracts and what not, we will able to have a bit of bargaining power when looking to recruit a tall forward/defender i.e. Justin Longmuir.

The downside is that the supporters may have to endure loss after loss for a fair chunk of the season and the player confidence may become totally shattered. We'd also get canned in the media pretty hard.
Author:  Wild Blue Yonder [ Sun May 08, 2005 9:33 am ]
Post subject: 
We'd be kidding ourselves if we don't play the kids.
And if another Longmuir joins the club I'll, well, spew.
Author:  Deano Supremo [ Sun May 08, 2005 9:35 am ]
Post subject: 
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

NO

I hate all this talk of diving for priority picks. We all shitcanned Collingwood and Essendon* when they were talking about a couple of weeks back, now here we are...

NO! I will take ten years of finishing eighth, ninth or tenth before I take one St Kilda style premiership, earnt via mediocrity.

What the f*ck happened to our pride?
Author:  Andain [ Sun May 08, 2005 9:40 am ]
Post subject: 
No way in hell. One bad game (ok, really bad game) and we're set to give up? Just throw in the towel and do a St Kilda? Forget it. Besides I think it would negatively effect the kids more than anything. Give them a year in the reserves to find their feet before throwing them in the deep end.
Author:  TheGame [ Sun May 08, 2005 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
If Carlton didn't play their best side I wouldn't go watch them.
Author:  Blue 2 the BONE [ Sun May 08, 2005 9:52 am ]
Post subject: 
There´s no way the Pies arent going for the bottom 4 this year, dropping senior players, playing young blokes ... I´m sorry but that is just smart list management. We´re not talking about throwing games, we´re not talking about being uncompetitive but I would rather see us lose with some young kids (our future) having a red hot go than a bunch of older guys who drop their heads when the opposition gets a run on. When you´re a leader of a club, paid $250k+, you have a duty to perform. Why should we not drop a Houla, a Campo, a Scotland, a Whits? Are they sacred? What signal do we send by dropping Simmo when he has an average game but continuing with senior players who not only play poorly but seem to have a real attitude problem. It´s wrong. Pies drop Woey, we can drop seniors too. I´d rather see Russell (who played great against Coburg) and Setanta struggle thru a few games and players willing to give 100% out there like McGrath and Bowyer. If the axe doesnt fall this week on some of these guys heads it will mean we´re reinforcing the type of a culture at Carlton where the overpaid sacred cows with attitude of this world will flourish. It´s a decay that spells our long term absence from final football.
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Sun May 08, 2005 9:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Blue 2 the BONE wrote:
There´s no way the Pies arent going for the bottom 4 this year, dropping senior players, playing young blokes ... I´m sorry but that is just smart list management. We´re not talking about throwing games, we´re not talking about being uncompetitive but I would rather see us lose with some young kids (our future) having a red hot go than a bunch of older guys who drop their heads when the opposition gets a run on. When you´re a leader of a club, paid $250k+, you have a duty to perform. Why should we not drop a Houla, a Campo, a Scotland, a Whits? Are they sacred? What signal do we send by dropping Simmo when he has an average game but continuing with senior players who not only play poorly but seem to have a real attitude problem. It´s wrong. Pies drop Woey, we can drop seniors too. I´d rather see Russell (who played great against Coburg) and Setanta struggle thru a few games and players willing to give 100% out there like McGrath and Bowyer. If the axe doesnt fall this week on some of these guys heads it will mean we´re reinforcing the type of a culture at Carlton where the overpaid sacred cows with attitude of this world will flourish. It´s a decay that spells our long term absence from final football.


That's what it is all about in a nutshell.

Great post, mate.
Author:  thehalford [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Deano Supremo wrote:
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

NO

I hate all this talk of diving for priority picks. We all shitcanned Collingwood and Essendon* when they were talking about a couple of weeks back, now here we are...

NO! I will take ten years of finishing eighth, ninth or tenth before I take one St Kilda style premiership, earnt via mediocrity.

What the f*ck happened to our pride?


What he said. :evil:
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
May I just state that there are actually 3 options here

1) Playing with the intention of losing.
2) Playing the kids and building for the future, still trying to win but knowing losing more helps us build for the future with draft picks.
3) Playing to win at all times.

Actually there are probably still variations within these options. What I support is Option 3 while we're still a chance to make the finals. Once that is not possible then we start on a version of Option 2 where we play the kids, try players in new positions looking to the future BUT always with the intention of winning.

There is NO way I will ever support this football club deliberately losing games, under no circumstances.
Author:  BlueWorld [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:43 am ]
Post subject: 
As if Pagan would ever give it less than 100%. We got Walker & Stevens 2 years ago and what difference has it made? An over reaction to ONE BAD GAME. :roll:
Author:  killpies [ Sun May 08, 2005 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
TruBlueBrad wrote:
There is NO way I will ever support this football club deliberately losing games, under no circumstances.


Here here
Author:  CarltonClem [ Sun May 08, 2005 11:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Blue 2 the BONE wrote:
There´s no way the Pies arent going for the bottom 4 this year, dropping senior players, playing young blokes ... I´m sorry but that is just smart list management. We´re not talking about throwing games, we´re not talking about being uncompetitive but I would rather see us lose with some young kids (our future) having a red hot go than a bunch of older guys who drop their heads when the opposition gets a run on. When you´re a leader of a club, paid $250k+, you have a duty to perform. Why should we not drop a Houla, a Campo, a Scotland, a Whits? Are they sacred? What signal do we send by dropping Simmo when he has an average game but continuing with senior players who not only play poorly but seem to have a real attitude problem. It´s wrong. Pies drop Woey, we can drop seniors too. I´d rather see Russell (who played great against Coburg) and Setanta struggle thru a few games and players willing to give 100% out there like McGrath and Bowyer. If the axe doesnt fall this week on some of these guys heads it will mean we´re reinforcing the type of a culture at Carlton where the overpaid sacred cows with attitude of this world will flourish. It´s a decay that spells our long term absence from final football.


Hear hear! I made a similar post at the end of the first post of the "True Analysis" thread. I agree with you wholeheartedly that Denis has to set an example.
Author:  Ponkstar [ Sun May 08, 2005 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 
I would change allegiances before I would support a Carlton that deliberately set out to lose.

But as others have indicated, some hard decisions should be made with experienced players who are playing on reputation only.

I would rather see a Russell or hell even a Bowyer get a game over a player who was not putting in 100%, no matter who they are.

If you play kids, do it on 2 conditions, one that you are still busting your arse to win the game, and two that the kids are actually prepared for senior footy. I would suggest that maybe a few of our kids aren't ready yet.
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Sun May 08, 2005 11:45 am ]
Post subject: 
thehalford wrote:
Deano Supremo wrote:
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

NO

I hate all this talk of diving for priority picks. We all shitcanned Collingwood and Essendon* when they were talking about a couple of weeks back, now here we are...

NO! I will take ten years of finishing eighth, ninth or tenth before I take one St Kilda style premiership, earnt via mediocrity.

What the f*ck happened to our pride?


What he said. :evil:


Add me to this too.

Digraceful. Any team knowingly tanking for picks in the draft should have those picks removed. It's tantamount to cheating. I know it's hard to prove, but it can be.
Author:  budzy [ Sun May 08, 2005 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think we need to "tank" games to finish in the bottom 4.

Their might'nt be much difference in scoreboard performance between picking our so called "best 22" and picking a youth based side for game experience.

The gulf between VFL standard & AFL standard seems to be huge so I wonder whether it's better for our youth to continually develop in the inferior VFL or would it be a quicker development learning in the seniors (on the job training). Skinny little rakes like Josh Thurgood seem to be progressing allright. I still have faith in Pagan to judge the best way of approaching selection.
Author:  Bluebernz [ Sun May 08, 2005 12:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
TruBlueBrad wrote:
May I just state that there are actually 3 options here

1) Playing with the intention of losing.
2) Playing the kids and building for the future, still trying to win but knowing losing more helps us build for the future with draft picks.
3) Playing to win at all times.



I voted YES.

I agree with TBB re the 3 options above. Option 2 for me! In fact, I don't think anyone here would support Option 1.... would they?
Author:  Bluesboy70 [ Sun May 08, 2005 2:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
TruBlueBrad wrote:
May I just state that there are actually 3 options here

1) Playing with the intention of losing.
2) Playing the kids and building for the future, still trying to win but knowing losing more helps us build for the future with draft picks.
3) Playing to win at all times.

Actually there are probably still variations within these options. What I support is Option 3 while we're still a chance to make the finals. Once that is not possible then we start on a version of Option 2 where we play the kids, try players in new positions looking to the future BUT always with the intention of winning.

There is NO way I will ever support this football club deliberately losing games, under no circumstances.


Option 3 and the first part of Option 2. Under NO circumstances should Option 1 ever be tolerated at this club. The sooner the AFL get rid of the Priority Pick the sooner we get rid of this legalized cheating.
Author:  BlueTerritory [ Sun May 08, 2005 2:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I vote NO
As has been mentioned by others-we ought to play to win- we should accept nothing less as our culture at Carlton!
But I am in favour of playing our young players and building for the future-whatever the outcome of doing this.
Author:  Synbad [ Sun May 08, 2005 2:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Deano Supremo wrote:
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

NO

I hate all this talk of diving for priority picks. We all shitcanned Collingwood and Essendon* when they were talking about a couple of weeks back, now here we are...

NO! I will take ten years of finishing eighth, ninth or tenth before I take one St Kilda style premiership, earnt via mediocrity.

What the f*ck happened to our pride?

Ever watched trading places???
Pride means @#$%&! all when youre a hobbo living out of a cardboard box...
what youre saying is youre the one outside the Vic Market with the metho in his hand burping farting and looking down your nose at the shoppers????
Author:  Synbad [ Sun May 08, 2005 2:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
BlueTerritory wrote:
I vote NO
As has been mentioned by others-we ought to play to win- we should accept nothing less as our culture at Carlton!
But I am in favour of playing our young players and building for the future-whatever the outcome of doing this.

Make up your mind.. if you play the youngeters youre not serious about winning now are you???

Nice try.. you should have ticked yep play for picks...

see thats how silly you all are.. of course you want the best young talent in Australia.. and in fact its because of people like you that the club doesnt take the right option. ... youre spoilt and you cant understand what needs to be done to turn the ship around..

I wanna win every game i can but i want to be succesful.. well you cant be succesful by winning as much as you can if youre bloody shithouse!!! :roll: :lol:
2 lists are worse than us at the moment... both of those will be ahead of us next year if we win 6/7 games.. or 8 or 9....
Not only will they pick up the best kids in Australia again but they will take the best player in the pre season draft....
With Campo Whitnall etc out of contract and saving the dosh we might have to end up giving that money to Prenda just to stay above 92% minimum because we cant trade our first 2 picks and were not low enough to pull a string here and there..
You guys have no idea about planning or whats in store!!!

Oh yes we have pride... *burp.. * *fart * and a scratch of my arse as i take another swig of metho and hide it under my coat*
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