young players too defensive = no confidence
older players too attacking = down hill skiiers that dont trek back defensively ....
... which means the kids have to be more defensive to cover up for their more experiences leaders...



hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............i think i understand whats going on here...

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I don't always find myself agreeing with what you say Synbad - but I can't say I fault you on that one.

Question is - what's Pagan gonna do about it?

Well with Denis you have to be able to read the code... and that means there isnt alot he can do this year in my opinion. .. I just hope he doesnt try to bring in 'safe' players and win an extra game or two so that SOME of us can feel good for a week and we continue on for the next few years ecstatic to win the odd game.. thus changing places with stKilda supporters.
Personally i reckon if we swapped Kouta Campo and Lance today with Bryan Bentick and Davies wed have lost nothing... the outcome would have been very similar. Problem is Campo Lance and Kouta are soaking up around 1/3 of the cap...

I dont think Denis can do much with players that dont believe they will ever play in a GF ..... apart from dropping them

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Young players playing too defensively - exactly what Synbad said. It means that the young players are trying to make up for what the senior players have failed to do. And it's not their fault. Thornton tried hard and stuck with Richo all day. With the amount of ball coming in, Richo could well have kicked 8 and it wouldn't have been Bret's fault. His determination is leadership. Tony Shaw on Fox said exactly that, his upset at losing a contest is exactly the way a leader should play. I have a bit of respect for Shaw as a special comments person, he comes up with some decent stuff.

I don't know whether any of the senior players could look Pagan in the eye and say they played well defensively. Koutoufides, Stevens and Camporeale in particular. In order to win, EVERY player must put in, it's unfair to ask the kids to try to do the work that so-called *stars* have failed to do and get paid well not to. If I was Kade Simpson, Bret Thornton, Andrew Walker, Trent Sporn, Simon Wiggins, I would seriously question what some of these so-called senior players are doing at a football club being lazy defensively and having put their younger teammates in all sorts of pressure.

Compare with Richmond, players like Meyer, Deledio, Tuck, had little pressure because their senior teammates in Gaspar, Kellaway, Chaffey, Campbell helped them and knew the senior players would play with them. Far cry from our current situation. It seems like the senior players were happy with one premiership, the Wizard Cup and don't care about the day time premiership.

Disgusting. It really is disgusting.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

2.5 wins out of 7 with a third of the season gone- need soon to make the decision to give everyone on the list a go and start thinking long term
Setanta Simpson bentick bryan russell blackwell all need game time and a chance
A view also has to be taken on the likes of the recycled players longmuir morrell johnson mcgrath bannister -that is who is to be perserved with in the long term
Once again may be heretical to say but still think finishing 10 th or 11 th last year hurt us and desparately need more talent in terms of early draft picks.
Not interested in tanking games but today showed against a very average side how we need an injection of talent - when you get beaten by likes of gaspar kelway simmonds campbell petiffer really need to do some soul searching

Totally agree. Bring in the young kids and give them a real go. Look at Hawthorn this year, are they any worse off? We need more early draft picks otherwise we're going to be a middle of the road side for years to come. BTW I reckon Simpson played very well today.

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You can just smell that fresh Carlton arrogance coming back into the air

There is only one aim for the rest of the season. Don't win more than two games. We need talent desperately.

I agree with the last sentence. But the rest is bullshit.

Imagine if we won only two of the next fifteen games? It would be worse than the horror days of '02 - because really, no-one thought that we could sink that low again.

Membership is up, finances are getting more stable, and sponsors are jumping on board. Although it would be ace for the list to finish so low on the ladder, the Carlton Football Club can't afford to.

Wise words BV.

Thought Dennis was very measured his comments, but clearly unhappy with the result. Was interested in his comments re senior and junior players.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

It was just mentioned on 3AW that the players had to watch a replay of the game at this mornings recovery session

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Disagree BV. After a passionless, insipid performance like that Pagan comes out and gives a passionless, insipid press conference. No fire, no passion. You have assumed that all the players will be "demoralised, devastated" and if that was true I´d agree to temper the anger but I just dont see that in many of the players, I dont see them getting angry, I dont see them getting more physical, more intense more frustrated ... I see nothing. Thornton is an exception. Wiggo, French and maybe Waite., Simpson, AW and Teague can hold their heads up ... the rest? At least show you´re disgusted, angry .... show us that you damn well care. A good number of those guys need a roasting, this is not the local seconday school´s U/15 girls netball side ... these are highly paid professional athletes, expected to perform, expected to bleed for the jumper ... Pagan should have fired up, not just for us supporters but for the players, for the players who do care, who do love the jumper because it´s them I worry about ... if nobody gives a shit then why should they?

I can guarantee you Pagan will fire up.

But why do it in front of a bunch of 2 bit journalists?

He'll fire up. But it will be targetted at the correct audience. His players, and his players alone.

Pagan's smarter than just firing up in front of the cameras for the sake of it. That's Laidley's method. I doubt there would be many scarier coaches behind closed doors after a game like that than Danis Pagan.

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Congratulations CK95

Geez. You wouldn't wish that on your worst enemy.

It was also just mentioned on 3AW that Nathan Brown and Terry Wallace shared a queen sized bed, a tub of popcorn, and an ice cream sundae with two spoons while watching the replay 12 times overnight.

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Congratulations CK95

Doesn't sound like they had much time for sex then.

plenty of time verbs, they just fast forwarded the bits where browny wasn't on screen...

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Congratulations CK95