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Carlton = Strong midfield = Finals Bound
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Author:  Virgin Blue [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Carlton = Strong midfield = Finals Bound
The welfare of Judd's groin pending, I believe we could have a very strong midfield this year.

Last year we had NO cream. This year we have...

Cream - Judd, Stevens, Murphy

Very Solid Contributors - Scotland, Simpson, Houlihan, Carrazzo

Potentially Very Solid Contributors - Hadley, Walker, Bentick (streamlined version)

Young Players Who Could Step-Up - Gibbs, Betts

Other Young Ones Who Could Surprise - Grigg, Russell (?)

That's more than the pre-requisite 11 mids/flankers you need to be competitve these days. It's a long cry from the days circa 2002 when all we had was a hobbling Kouta, Camporeale, Hulme and Lappin.

The burning question then is, IF we have a good midfield, does that mean we can make the Eight? It will then come down to what our stocks are like in Key Defense, Ruck and Key Forward.

Let's break these components down :

Key Defense - probably still a problem point, although Waite at CHB could help and Setanta could yet become a good defender (if played there, which is no guarantee)

Ruck - probably another problem area, while Hampson might show a bit he can't be relied on to do the hard yakka all year. And Kreuzer, Jacobs (r) and Aisake are young and untried, Cloke is under-sized and not elite anyhow, and Ackland is hopeless.

Key Forward - Fevola is the favourite for the Coleman, and Fisher kicked 50 last year, so you'd think we are looking more than alright in this regard.

Here's the rub - West Coast managed to win a Flag without a dominant forward, although they did have arguably the best Ruck and FB in the comp.

Sydney managed to win a Flag with a hard-working midfield (although they did have Goodes), with the modest Barry at FB, and with some guns up forward.

With Judd, Stevens, Murphy & Co in midfield, and Fevola and Fisher up forward, where does that leave the Blues in 2008? I can't help but feel having a strong midfield is half the battle won.

I reckon we're a chance for the Eight. Had Judd and Fevola played the other night, and Stevens played a full game, we'd have pantsed Fremantle.
Author:  Molly [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:43 am ]
Post subject: 
LOVE your enthusiasm Virgin Blue!

I personally disagree, because I am getting old and cranky... but also because I think it will take a while for us to be able to successfully implement the Ratten gameplan.

That said... I am not writing to knock you, because I love the fact that for the first time in years there are many Carlton fans who are looking at the new season with enthusiasm. Good on all of you... I sincerely hope you are right!!!

Oh... one small point... I reckon Simpson is actually an A Grade Footballer (or awfully darn close to it) these days. I'd actually have him ahead of Murphy in our on-ball pecking order. People tend to overlook Simmo a bit, but he is an excellent footballer, and the presence of Stevens and Judd (and Hadley) will do him the world of good. :-D
Author:  Andain [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Did anyone else read that article about the Championship data ranking of the various teams in different areason on the field?

Championship Data ranked Carlton's midfield as the equal best in the league, along with Brisbane, who was surprising but still great to see. Unfortunately we were also ranked 16th for our defence, 15th for our forward line and 12th best for our ruck division :oops:
Author:  Donstuie [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:26 am ]
Post subject: 
15th for forward line? WTF???
Author:  DocSherrin III [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
No rush in my opinion - this is a rebuilding year - a year to get some games into the young men that now make up this squad and to get them used to a new coach's game plan, each other and the rigors of AFL football.

8 wins in 2008 is a great start as far as I'm concerned.

2009 I'll be wanting a finals appearance.
Author:  Sniff Wilson [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
12th in ruck??? WTF???

who could ahve been worse than us?
Author:  Andain [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Donstuie wrote:
15th for forward line? WTF???


I can understand it. Fev had a below average year last year, Betts has barely kicked 20 goals in a season, Whitnall is gone, Waite play in defense half the time, Kennedy is gone, and Fish was good last year but didn't kick many the previous two seasons and its judged over a three year period. So its harsh but fair.
Author:  Donstuie [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:49 am ]
Post subject: 
I suppose, although if it was done on a year-by-year basis our rating for 07 would've been better.

And agree on our rucks. Who could be worse??
Author:  blu944 [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:53 am ]
Post subject: 
We'll be definately more competitive, but success is an easy formula, you need to have as many of the key positions covered and hardened bodies around the ball. We still have many holes in the key posts but the midfield is becoming a more senior and classy group which should hold us in reasonable stead.
Author:  Punter22 [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Donstuie wrote:
15th for forward line? WTF???


The rankings were completed based on depth of talent at each position. Hence VB's post above shows why we would be considered amongst the top of the league in midfield - great depth.

However looking at the forward line, while the topliners are ok-above average (Fisher, Betts, Fev), there's nothing behind them at all. And that's where you arrive at the ranking of 15th. Additionally, the rankings were concluded over a 3 year period, so last year's good scoring form is somewhat diluted.
Author:  Rocco Iguana [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Molly wrote:
LOVE your enthusiasm Virgin Blue!


Oh... one small point... I reckon Simpson is actually an A Grade Footballer (or awfully darn close to it) these days. I'd actually have him ahead of Murphy in our on-ball pecking order. People tend to overlook Simmo a bit, but he is an excellent footballer, and the presence of Stevens and Judd (and Hadley) will do him the world of good. :-D



Simmo .... captain material m'thinks !
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't read anything into those championship data rankings. If they are based on 3 years, then considering our lack of experience those numbers are largely meaningless for us.
Author:  Virgin Blue [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Long-term, we need a couple of Waite/Jamison/Setanta/Bower/Austin to really crack it as defenders, and we will also need to find a new gun key forward, because Fevola is 27 now and now so won't play forever, and I'm not sure Hartlett will ever be a 80 goal/year forward (I could be wrong but I doubt it very much).
Author:  Punter22 [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Virgin Blue wrote:
I wouldn't read anything into those championship data rankings. If they are based on 3 years, then considering our lack of experience those numbers are largely meaningless for us.


Exactly.
Author:  Melvey [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sniff Wilson wrote:
12th in ruck??? WTF???

who could ahve been worse than us?


must have been a typo
Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Very good midfield and agree with Molly on Simpson....Kade is A grade and one of our best....

Defense...ordinary
Rucks.....youthful potential but nothing proven or substantial at this stage.
Forwards....Fev and Fisher but not much after that, we will struggle to kick goals unless someone like Hartlett can step up.....

To make finals Fev will have to kick plenty and Judd put in a brownlow season.....possible but I can see us just missing......this season is about getting games into our kids and polishing up the skills of some other players....all looking good but finals unlikely IMHO...
Author:  budzy [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Very good midfield and agree with Molly on Simpson....Kade is A grade and one of our best....

Defense...ordinary
Rucks.....youthful potential but nothing proven or substantial at this stage.
Forwards....Fev and Fisher but not much after that, we will struggle to kick goals unless someone like Hartlett can step up.....

Good midfielders kick goals as well as set up play. Good midfielders will produce more goals from our forwards and ease pressure off the defence.
With minimul injuries to key playmakers we can make the 8 I reckon
Author:  showbag [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sniff Wilson wrote:
12th in ruck??? WTF???

who could ahve been worse than us?


St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, Richmond (last year) and maybe Collingwood
Author:  Stefchook [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andain wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
15th for forward line? WTF???


I can understand it. Fev had a below average year last year, Betts has barely kicked 20 goals in a season, Whitnall is gone, Waite play in defense half the time, Kennedy is gone, and Fish was good last year but didn't kick many the previous two seasons and its judged over a three year period. So its harsh but fair.


The problem is with our lack of small and medium sized forwards. We've got reasonable tall forwards, but no creative smalls other than Betts. The good forward lines have 2 or 3 of these types who can hurt teams on the scoreboard. Classic example is Geelong, with the likes of Chapman, Johnson and Ablett (and others).
Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Stefchook wrote:
Andain wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
15th for forward line? WTF???


I can understand it. Fev had a below average year last year, Betts has barely kicked 20 goals in a season, Whitnall is gone, Waite play in defense half the time, Kennedy is gone, and Fish was good last year but didn't kick many the previous two seasons and its judged over a three year period. So its harsh but fair.


The problem is with our lack of small and medium sized forwards. We've got reasonable tall forwards, but no creative smalls other than Betts. The good forward lines have 2 or 3 of these types who can hurt teams on the scoreboard. Classic example is Geelong, with the likes of Chapman, Johnson and Ablett (and others).


Agree,you would almost class them as small/medium power forwards....can all take a good mark and are very strong in the body.
We lack a bit of variety, Matty Lappin even though he was lightly built could take a mark and crumb at ground level....
I'm hoping Bryce Gibbs can offer us something in this area...he is a decent height, can take a mark as he showed at Glenelg and has the smarts on the ground...I think he can be a threat if played forward and I'd like to see Ratten experiment with him there to give us that variety we dont have.....
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