I am guessing I am not alone in being a tad confused over the club's plans for CHB and CHF. Every time I try and work through the various possible permutations, I inevitably end up 1 spot short. And this is further compounded by the club's decision to play Waite at CHB. Put bluntly, I just can't see who the club are going to play at CHF in the coming years.

I see Waite and Setanta as the two genuine key defenders/forwards at the club. In many respects I think the club should play one of these down back and the other up forward. If we wanted to stack the backline, then you would play both Setanta and Waite down there (which perhaps appears to be the plan??), but then who plays CHF? Who helps Fevola out? (remembering the Shag himself is nearing the wrong side of 27 and won't last forever).

Fisher is not big enough nor durable enough to play the traditional CHF role. Am I overplaying the significance of that role in the modern game? Is modern footy about agile, moving forwards who create goals by making space? Or do we still need the traditional big, strong, go-to-man at CHF? Cause surely Fisher is not this man, and neither is Fev. Does Cloke play that role? Is he good enough to do that long-term? Or are the club looking at the forever fragile Hartlett? The club have already stated many times Kreuzer will be a ruck and not a CHF, and I can't see the plan being any different for Hampson.

What about Aisake? Does he have the smarts to play CHF? Very unlikely I'd have thought.

Perhaps the plan is for Setanta to become a forward? So it's Waite, Thornton and one or both of Austin and Bower down back, with Fevola, Fisher and Setanta up forward. Is Setanta smart enough to make it as a forward? One thing I will say, is he showed against Melbourne (or was it the Dogs??) at the MCG last year he can take some pretty big marks and convert. He certainly showed promise as a forward that day, I think he took 3-4 excellent contested marks, which is more than you'll see Fev take in any given game (no disrespect to the Shag, but he is more a leading forward than a contested/pack marker).

But if we leave Setanta down back, and Waite goes back too, I just struggle to see who will be the CHF in the coming 1-3 years. The candidates (Cloke, Hartlett etc) all have serious question marks over them. And Edwards is more mid-sized than a genuine go-to-man. Have I missed anyone?

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you don't need the big forward targets anymore. Maybe it is about having a couple of Fisher types. Maybe Edwards or even Benjamin joins Fisher up there in 1-2 years, and can make space and kick a couple every week. Or maybe that big, bustling CHF is the missing piece in our jigsaw, now that Kennedy is gone. He after all was seen by most as filling that role.

What do we all think?

Instead of the terms 'CHF' and 'CHB', I think these days it's really just down to 'key position matchups' each week depending on the oppositions available playing list at the time.

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There's so much I could say...

CHB: Joe Anderson
CHF: Eddie Betts.

We're gonna change the way the game is played.

i reckon cameron cloke could go chf ? maybe even kreuzer with a bit of experience under the belt

im more worried about waite at chb - i reckon it will curb his flair quite a bit i reckon he is better suited to a large wing player?
what do you guys think?

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In america, first you get zee shugar, the you get zee power, then you get ze wemen!!!

meh the positions as such dont exist anymore

its no longer back 6 mid 6 and front 6 in set positions

its more like 2 key forwards and a crumber , 2 key defenders and a small defender and 12 midfielders

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Hey VirginBlue,

I think Grrofunger's point is valid... not many sides actually have traditional CHB / CHF players anymore. Jonathon Brown (widely regarded as the best CHF) almost plays a ruck-rover role for the Lions sometimes with the distance he covers and the positions he finds himself in.

The other thing to keep in mind is Cazz's comments from after the National Draft. When asked why the club went for smalls, he made the comment that there was a belief our depth of talls was actually pretty good.

Spot on.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

So we don't need a strong bodied presence up forward?

fev is pretty strong apparently

also a great shot from outside 50

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

CHF = Matthew Kreuzer.

CHB = Lachlan Hansen

You heard it first here!

Yes but Fev is not the bang crash type. Unless we want to cut short his career by 3 years

No offence. But not buying it until one of the other guys like Synbad says it. For memory, you also proclaimed Judd to be signed, sealed and delivered to the Pies.

I would personely have Waite at CHB due to his great showing down there in recent times, and the fact that it suits him as he can use his flair and run off his opponents.

I would have Setanta at CHF. The guy has kicked 15 goals 3 behinds i think to date, so he has the ability to be good around goals. Just as important, i think he will offer the best contest we could hope for at CHF out of all our players.

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Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you.

I would tell Ackland that his days as #1 ruck are over and that he needs to start training for CHF.

Kruezer doesn't need to play CHF just yet, if ever. For mine, Big K just needs to learn the pace of the game first and get used to everything. Give him short stints in the ruck and then rest him in the forward pocket.

Waite COULD be our CHF, but he's just so inconsistent. Probably one of our most frustrating players because we know what he can do when he's on, but the gap between his worst and his best is huge IMO.

I believe Setanta is a natural backman and I would continue to groom to be our gorilla down back. By putting Setanta at CHF, it'll mess with our whole backline structure. As much as I like Jamo and Austin, I doubt they are ready to take on the likes of John Brown and Barry Hall just yet.

Not sure who we are going to use at CHF but I'd be looking at Ackland (as a last chance dip), Cloke or Hartlett.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

But you need courage to play CHF

Fev Harts Fish and Matty K as our tall forwards. Setanta Waitey Tbird and PB as our tall backs.

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There's so much I could say...

Waite - CHB or CHF?

Setanta - Defense or Forward?

Either way, I think once the club feel they have got it right, they need to leave the two players in their respective spots and let them develop consistency.

I am tired of seeing Setanta (and Waite to a lesser extent) thrown all over the shop. It is time for these two talented athletes to settle into a position and help shape the structure of the club.

It goes without saying I reckon the club will give Hartlett a chance at CHF, so long as he has worked hard enough over the summer and deserves a chance.

But I'm not overly hopeful he'll make CHF his own.

Good thread and good discussion, Virgin Blue.

Obviously the club is planning on using Waite at CHB (or as one of the key defender's, if you prefer) this year. It will be interesting to know whether this is the long-term plan, or perhaps a short-term solution (a year or so) until Jamison/Bower/Austin are ready to take over.

I actually think our key position defensive stocks are pretty good.

But without Waite playing forward, and with Kennedy gone, I do think we are a little light for key position forwards. I agree that Kreuzer will play forward pocket most of the year (or if you prefer, in a more 'marginal' role as the 3rd or 4th tall). Fev will obviously be the main key position forward. And Fisher will no doubt play as a 'marginal' 3rd tall. So I agree with Virgin Blue, that it looks to me like we're missing a centre half forward (or 'number 2' tall).

I'm guessing the options are Hartlett or Cloke. But neither fill me with a great deal of confidence at this stage. I suspect that Edwards or Aisake would more likely play in a Fisher/Kreuzer role, if they get a go up forward.

I would think recruiting another key position forward would be a priority in the next couple of drafts. (A long with some genuine goalkicking smalls!)

All I would add to this is Cloke as a CHF option. Give training reports I've read, I reckon he's working hard on his fitness and wants to be the No 1 CHF option for Ratts.

Pool of FB and CHB options are: Santy, Waite, Jamo, T-Bird and Bower (trusting Cazz on this one).

Pool of CHF options are: Cloke, Harts, Fish and Kreuzer (like this kid as our long term CHF). Waite may "pinch hit" at CHF depending on match ups.