TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Please Don't Play Waite at Center HalF Back

5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you

This is an open letter to the Carlton Match Committe. Please Don't play Jarrad Waite at Center Half Back. I predict it will cost us games big time because:

1. His athleticism and his talent as a truly creative footballer suits the forward line rather than the back line

2. We don't have a genuine CHF other than Waite so it will only rob peter to pay paul

3. He does not hit targets coming out of the backline. A sprayed kick in the forward line is probably not as damaging

4. His only success has been against the athletic Center Half Forwards. Big Bodied Center Half Forwards beat him every time.

5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you and tried this experiment and it failed dismally.

1. His athleticism and his talent as a truly creative footballer suits the forward line rather than the back line.

2. We don't have a genuine CHF other than Waite so it will only rob peter to pay paul.

3. He does not hit targets coming out of the backline. A sprayed kick in the forw.

4. His only success has been against the athletic Center Half Forwards. Big Bodied Center Half Forwards beat him every time..

5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you and tried this experiment and it failed dismally.

I'd like him at CHF with Setanta at CHB.

Mind you. Waite has done a brilliant job on Riewoldt so he can play defensivly, he might just need some assistance which, sadly, we have had very little of recently.

Here's an arguement for you.

Premiership teams often have one guy who bags about 60+ goals, and another who bags around 40-50, something like that anyhow.

What's wrong with Fevola 80, Fisher 50, and Betts 40?

Fisher bagged 49 last year, and we know Fev is good for 70+.

Michael Jezz wrote:

Well If Hartlett and Edwards come along there will be no need for him to play forward. The beauty of it is that he can play both positions. We might have our own "Chad cornes" type. (Even though Chad Cornes is a w*nker!) it would be handy trick up Rattens sleeve!

Virgin Blue wrote:

Prehaps but expecting Betts to double the amount of goals he managed last year might be a bit much.

Hartlett and Edwards have shown little so far. Not that this means they will both fail, but I for one am not holding my breath.

Author:	Michael Jezz [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:53 am ]
Post subject:	Please Don't Play Waite at Center HalF Back
This is an open letter to the Carlton Match Committe. Please Don't play Jarrad Waite at Center Half Back. I predict it will cost us games big time because: 1. His athleticism and his talent as a truly creative footballer suits the forward line rather than the back line 2. We don't have a genuine CHF other than Waite so it will only rob peter to pay paul 3. He does not hit targets coming out of the backline. A sprayed kick in the forward line is probably not as damaging 4. His only success has been against the athletic Center Half Forwards. Big Bodied Center Half Forwards beat him every time. 5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you and tried this experiment and it failed dismally.

Author:	blu944 [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please Don't Play Waite at Center HalF Back
Michael Jezz wrote: 5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you felt like the other way round tbh

Author:	blue terrace boy [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Please Don't Play Waite at Center HalF Back
Michael Jezz wrote: This is an open letter to the Carlton Match Committe. Please Don't play Jarrad Waite at Center Half Back. I predict it will cost us games big time because: 1. His athleticism and his talent as a truly creative footballer suits the forward line rather than the back line 2. We don't have a genuine CHF other than Waite so it will only rob peter to pay paul 3. He does not hit targets coming out of the backline. A sprayed kick in the forward line is probably not as damaging 4. His only success has been against the athletic Center Half Forwards. Big Bodied Center Half Forwards beat him every time. 5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you and tried this experiment and it failed dismally. hi mike, your message has been noted, and i will speak to brett this afternoon. thankyou.

Author:	ryan2000 [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:44 am ]
Post subject:
I'd like him at CHF with Setanta at CHB. Mind you. Waite has done a brilliant job on Riewoldt so he can play defensivly, he might just need some assistance which, sadly, we have had very little of recently.

Author:	marciblue [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:52 am ]
Post subject:
I am definitely in the ‘play Waite at half forward’ brigade, but who does he squeeze out to play there? Who can stand up in the forward line and what is the best list and team selection management approach with who we have? Obviously Fevola & Fish are first to be selected but there are a number of blokes who potentially can step up and grab one of the other 1 or 2 tall forward positions. I am not sure whether a true CHF position is of vital importance to identify as I prefer a mobile multi-pronged attack but the likes of Waite, Hartlett, Edwards (singled out by Fev in the leadership group reports), Kreuzer, Aisake, Hampson, Cloke are all candidates. Waite is probably ranked first in for this job and should be earmarked for this role but if some of these other guys can provide a similar output and Waite is needed down back then I would be happy for this concession to be made. And if the forward line can remain mobile enough I would love a 4 man tall forward line. The options are there!

TalkingCarlton http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	billc3 [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:55 am ]
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I think the days of set positions for players, no rotation during the game etc etc are gone...for most teams and with the exception of StKilda and our previous coach anyway I wouldn't bust a nerve worrying whether Waite will be CHB...depending on the team he'll be at CHF...

Author:	Molly [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:02 am ]
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See I'm actually of the view that he serves us better at CHB. Mind you... I'd just like him to show some good consistency somewhere on the field

Author:	wasthesonofapreacherman [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:18 am ]
Post subject:
Molly's 100% right. We will be the youngest team in the AFL, and yet again have turned over a considerable number on our list. We have a new coach, so I have little doubt 2008 is going to be a real trial year where a few players may move positions throughout, as it's all about experiment. Waite sure it's been said will play down back, but just because Pagan had certain players in certain positions it will account for little with our new game plan. Let's not get our knickers before round one has even taken place. Cool heads is needed.

Author:	Warby [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Greg Swann said on SEN the other morning that "Waite and Setanta would be down back this year".

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please Don't Play Waite at Center HalF Back
Michael Jezz wrote: 1. His athleticism and his talent as a truly creative footballer suits the forward line rather than the back line. Really? He is not a great kick for goal so can waste his chances, and down back his vertical leap means he can spoil players like Riewoldt, and he provides great run out of defense. Michael Jezz wrote: 2. We don't have a genuine CHF other than Waite so it will only rob peter to pay paul. We don't have a genuine CHB either, and last time I checked people round here think the game has progressed to the point you don't need a genuine CHF anymore. Michael Jezz wrote: 3. He does not hit targets coming out of the backline. A sprayed kick in the forw. He misses set shots for goal too. I would not want to rely on him to kick a goal in the siren from 45m out to win us the game. Historically, the poorer kicks play down back (Silvagni, Mckay etc). Michael Jezz wrote: 4. His only success has been against the athletic Center Half Forwards. Big Bodied Center Half Forwards beat him every time.. So what? So you don't play him on the big bodies players. Your arguement is hopelessly one dimensional and inflexible. Modern football is about match ups. We have Setanta for the monkeys, and Waite for the athletic types. What's wrong with that? Michael Jezz wrote: 5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you and tried this experiment and it failed dismally. Waite looked ok in defense in my view. Remember, he has only played about a dozen or so games there, and last year was his first year with a full pre-season. And he did come 3rd in the B&F, so not sure that he has failed there. Just playing devil's advocate mate. I personally wish we had a great defender so we could keep Waite up forward, but I am open minded about where he plays because I think down back we are lacking class and I can see good arguements either way. You though seem to be just seeing the one arguement which seems a bit narrow minded.

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Here's an arguement for you. Premiership teams often have one guy who bags about 60+ goals, and another who bags around 40-50, something like that anyhow. What's wrong with Fevola 80, Fisher 50, and Betts 40? Fisher bagged 49 last year, and we know Fev is good for 70+.

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:
ryan2000 wrote: I'd like him at CHF with Setanta at CHB. Mind you. Waite has done a brilliant job on Riewoldt so he can play defensivly, he might just need some assistance which, sadly, we have had very little of recently. It will all come down to how well certain players adapt to certain spots. Setanta has only played a few games at true CHB, so a bit early to say he should be left there. The same goes for Waite, he looked ok there last year but needs to be better before you leave him there forever. Mayvbe Waite doesn't step up and look totally comfortable at CHB, in which case you send him back forward, and see if Setanta can do the job at CHB.

Author:	Andain [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Virgin Blue wrote: Here's an arguement for you. Premiership teams often have one guy who bags about 60+ goals, and another who bags around 40-50, something like that anyhow. What's wrong with Fevola 80, Fisher 50, and Betts 40? Fisher bagged 49 last year, and we know Fev is good for 70+. Prehaps but expecting Betts to double the amount of goals he managed last year might be a bit much.

Author:	ACHILLES [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please Don't Play Waite at Center HalF Back
Michael Jezz wrote: This is an open letter to the Carlton Match Committe. Please Don't play Jarrad Waite at Center Half Back. I predict it will cost us games big time because: 1. His athleticism and his talent as a truly creative footballer suits the forward line rather than the back line 2. We don't have a genuine CHF other than Waite so it will only rob peter to pay paul 3. He does not hit targets coming out of the backline. A sprayed kick in the forward line is probably not as damaging 4. His only success has been against the athletic Center Half Forwards. Big Bodied Center Half Forwards beat him every time. 5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you and tried this experiment and it failed dismally. Well If Hartlett and Edwards come along there will be no need for him to play forward. The beauty of it is that he can play both positions. We might have our own "Chad cornes" type. (Even though Chad Cornes is a w*nker!) it would be handy trick up Rattens sleeve!

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Author:	Princes Park Whistler [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Please Don't Play Waite at Center HalF Back
ACHILLES wrote: Michael Jezz wrote: This is an open letter to the Carlton Match Committe. Please Don't play Jarrad Waite at Center Half Back. I predict it will cost us games big time because: 1. His athleticism and his talent as a truly creative footballer suits the forward line rather than the back line 2. We don't have a genuine CHF other than Waite so it will only rob peter to pay paul 3. He does not hit targets coming out of the backline. A sprayed kick in the forward line is probably not as damaging 4. His only success has been against the athletic Center Half Forwards. Big Bodied Center Half Forwards beat him every time. 5. Denis Pagan, suffered for you and tried this experiment and it failed dismally. Well If Hartlett and Edwards come along there will be no need for him to play forward. The beauty of it is that he can play both positions. We might have our own "Chad cornes" type. (Even though Chad Cornes is a w*nker!) it would be handy trick up Rattens sleeve! Exactly.We now have options everywhere which is something we haven`t had for some time.We will now have good match ups on a week to week basis.

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:
Andain wrote: Virgin Blue wrote: Here's an arguement for you. Premiership teams often have one guy who bags about 60+ goals, and another who bags around 40-50, something like that anyhow. What's wrong with Fevola 80, Fisher 50, and Betts 40? Fisher bagged 49 last year, and we know Fev is good for 70+. Prehaps but expecting Betts to double the amount of goals he managed last year might be a bit much. Really?? Betts is still just a baby, is about to hit consistency for the first time in his career. The better small forward pockets kick 35-40 odd. It is certainly possible in a Premiership year, when this team and Betts matures he could kick 40.

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Hartlett and Edwards have shown little so far. Not that this means they will both fail, but I for one am not holding my breath.

Author:	Warby [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:
What Eddie needs to develop if possible; is stamina.

Author:	Virgin Blue [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Fair call Warby. Definitely that is a contributing factor to his lack of consistency. I think he will surprise a lot of people and really step up this year. Looked good at training last week and did well in the praccy game

Author:	ACHILLES [ Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Virgin Blue wrote: Hartlett and Edwards have shown little so far. Not that this means they will both fail, but I for one am not holding my breath. Well we all know that Edwards can play! Even if it is in reserves. rememeber these guys are still young! From what I have seen and heard about Edwards he can certainly a quick lead, Tall 192cm player, can kick well. It's all about game time for him and staying fit. Well Hartlett is the one in question for me! Way too many injuries has to show something this year.